[Goofnik]

Might as well get this thread rolling.

Although "unveiled" at E3 with the launch of the latest Forza Motorsports game, some magazines (EVO, Automobile) have gone for rides as passengers in late pre-production prototypes. The announcement at E3 was 640HP, but as Kyle Fortune at EVO pointed out:

Preuninger says the last 20% of development happens once the pre-production cars run off the line. That’s happening in the next few weeks.​

Georg Kacher at Automobile reported that he learned from his ride that the official figures are 700HP and 553 lb-ft of torque.

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Here's what we know and the one thing we should expect.

• Official launch at the 2017 Frankfurt Auto Show, which is mid-September. This is not official, but based on Porsche's usual launches, what we should expect.
• No less than 700HP or 553 lb-ft of torque. 7200 rpm limiter. RWD. PDK-S only transmission offered.
• 0 - 125 mph in "under 9 seconds", as claimed by Porsche to automobile journalists.
• Official top speed of 212mph and 0-62mph of 2.9s, though Automobile's Georg Kacher witnessed an indicated 217mph on an Autobahn run.
• Curb weight of under 3300lbs, with the optional Weissach package -- which include magnesium wheels -- offering another 45 pound reduction.
• ~770 pounds maximum net downforce.
• 325/30Z-21 rears, 265/35-20 front tires. Appears as if they'll be Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Dunlop Sport MAXX.
• 39/61 F/R weight distribution

I guess the other thing to expect is that it probably wants to kill you if you let it, in GT2 RS tradition. Ring time? I can't imagine they're aiming for anything less than the 918 Spyder. If not the Huracan Performante.

The last GT2 RS was 400 total units. Allocations are being doled out already (someone in Miami is already trying to sell theirs via the Bloomberg terminal), and 50 allocations will be PTS cars. I'd expect no more than 500-600 total cars built.

 

[Goofnik]

The last GT2 RS was 400 total units. Allocations are being doled out already (someone in Miami is already trying to sell theirs via the Bloomberg terminal), and 50 allocations will be PTS cars. I'd expect no more than 500-600 total cars built.

Apparently I'm VERY wrong on these numbers. Porsche is not numbering these, and instead is selling these based on available capacity. Several people have spoken with Porsche reps (and have now heard similar from two different general managers) and their hope is to sell 1000 worldwide if there are enough buyers, and have the capacity available to build as many as 1500.

I guess this is a 2nd prong of their anti-arbitrage measures. No quick $150K flipping these, because there will likely be as many to sell as there are people to buy them.

 

[OttawaSteve]

Apparently I'm VERY wrong on these numbers. Porsche is not numbering these, and instead is selling these based on available capacity. Several people have spoken with Porsche reps (and have now heard similar from two different general managers) and their hope is to sell 1000 worldwide if there are enough buyers, and have the capacity available to build as many as 1500.

I guess this is a 2nd prong of their anti-arbitrage measures. No quick $150K flipping these, because there will likely be as many to sell as there are people to buy them.

I have been following the development of this car, and I still can't figure out who Porsche makes these cars for. They are pretty hard core track cars, but not race cars. Or is there a GT2 series that they actually compete in? I suspect that they go to ultra-rich Porsche aficionados that basically let them sit in a garage. You sure can't use more than a small potential of these cars on the street.

 

[chows4us]

I have been following the development of this car, and I still can't figure out who Porsche makes these cars for. They are pretty hard core track cars, but not race cars. Or is there a GT2 series that they actually compete in?

The 993 GT2 was homogulated for ... yep, GT2. Read https://jalopnik.com/5949938/understanding-gt-sports-car-racing-a-class-by-class-guide Just as the GT3 does the same for the GT3 series. I got no clue what Porsche is doing with the GT4 nor what will they do in the future since it looks like racing will probably die with the EV cars.

If you read the GT racing guide, it is confusing but GT2 is gone. The 991RSR was homogulated from the 991S because the 991GT3 wasn't ready.

GT2 is to 911 Turbo as GT3 is to 911S as GT4 is to 981S

Since GT2 is gone, well it just the widowmaker. It has no real purpose other than a halo car. Who buys them? The same people who bought a GT4 for their son's HS graduation, the same who puts them in a collection, etc. They go VERY fast. I saw a used GT2 on a dealer floor once but it was already sold. They never hang around. Here is one story, a sad one, a widowmaker, I only link to it out of respect. Its the ultimate 911. No, not the GT3, but the GT2(RS).

They will build to customer - 1? Then they will sell a TON of them because I think most people understand this is the end of the line, the next gen 911 might be hybrid or EV, who knows. But they will sell. There is a LOT of money out there.

 

[zedcat]

I have been following the development of this car, and I still can't figure out who Porsche makes these cars for. They are pretty hard core track cars, but not race cars. Or is there a GT2 series that they actually compete in? I suspect that they go to ultra-rich Porsche aficionados that basically let them sit in a garage. You sure can't use more than a small potential of these cars on the street.

I expect to see a few at COTA HPDEs next year dicing with the McLarens and Ferraris. (I'll be hanging my arm out the window....) But probably most will just come out for C&C events.

 

[Anand]

"GT2 is to 911 Turbo as GT3 is to 911S as GT4 is to 981S"

Interesting perspective Chows. I am not that familiar with some of the racing background of these cars so it is welcome information. The widowmaker link and the information contained within is most unfortunate. Someone perhaps unfamiliar with the car pushed it and paid dearly for a very bad mistake. My concerns are the same with cars like the Dodge Hellcat and Demon. Sure money can get you into one but you can get into a world of hurt with these types of cars. Same can be said for a zo6 I suppose.

I understand the appeal of these types of cars but unless you are remarkably skilled and are into competitive driving, what is the point? . And not to belabor the point, a skilled driver killed himself and a well know celebrity in a Carrera GT.
Halo cars.

 

[Goofnik]

I got no clue what Porsche is doing with the GT4

They race. They race in droves, mostly in Europe. Before the GT4 and GT4 Clubsport were launched, the prior 24H of Nurburgring had as many Caymans competing as 911s. There was a lot of pent up demand for a GT4 race car.

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GT2s are certainly nuts, but to be honest, it's not hard to get arrested in a Miata. All modern cars nowadays are incredibly capable thanks to modern tire tech. You can't use all of MOST cars nowadays on public roads, and I'm not talking about even a Boxster. Go faaaar lower than that. I'm talking entry-level 6-cylinder sports sedans. I wonder if I could use all of a V6 Accord nowadays and still stay in my own lane. Thing is, you don't need to use ALL of a car to enjoy it, because it's not 1982 anymore. I don't use all of my Spyder because those numbers really make me think, but it's still enjoyable pushing it pretty damn hard at 4AM in the middle of nowhere. My guess is you'd still have a @#$%-eating grin on your face in a GT2 at 5 tenths.

Though what I don't get is, the "But you can't -- " just stop. Stop. You think sports cars are capable? Warp back 20ish years ago to when sport bikes were in a constant battle of oneupmanship. What a mid-to-late-90s sport bike could do the best part of 25 years ago was absolutely insane. Though aside from limiting top speed, they haven't stopped. A modern 600cc or 650cc inline could leave my old Ducati 888 for dead, and unlike the Ducati's V-twin, is absolutely ballistic when it comes on cam. I've ridden a friends' KTM 1290 Super Duke and I was very much aware the thing was capable of high-siding me in a straight line, never mind the fact that it'd pop a wheelie at any speed you'd dare consider.

Know what bikers do? They go out at 4 in the morning. They went out at 4 in the morning when I had a bike. And then went out at 4 in the morning when my father had a bike. What do GT2 owners probably do? Probably go out at 4 in the morning.

 

[subshooter]

Ring lap time guess 6:50. Faster than 918. Watch.

 

[gcurnew]

They race. They race in droves, mostly in Europe. Before the GT4 and GT4 Clubsport were launched, the prior 24H of Nurburgring had as many Caymans competing as 911s. There was a lot of pent up demand for a GT4 race car.

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GT2s are certainly nuts, but to be honest, it's not hard to get arrested in a Miata. All modern cars nowadays are incredibly capable thanks to modern tire tech. You can't use all of MOST cars nowadays on public roads, and I'm not talking about even a Boxster. Go faaaar lower than that. I'm talking entry-level 6-cylinder sports sedans. I wonder if I could use all of a V6 Accord nowadays and still stay in my own lane. Thing is, you don't need to use ALL of a car to enjoy it, because it's not 1982 anymore. I don't use all of my Spyder because those numbers really make me think, but it's still enjoyable pushing it pretty damn hard at 4AM in the middle of nowhere. My guess is you'd still have a @#$%-eating grin on your face in a GT2 at 5 tenths.

Though what I don't get is, the "But you can't -- " just stop. Stop. You think sports cars are capable? Warp back 20ish years ago to when sport bikes were in a constant battle of oneupmanship. What a mid-to-late-90s sport bike could do the best part of 25 years ago was absolutely insane. Though aside from limiting top speed, they haven't stopped. A modern 600cc or 650cc inline could leave my old Ducati 888 for dead, and unlike the Ducati's V-twin, is absolutely ballistic when it comes on cam. I've ridden a friends' KTM 1290 Super Duke and I was very much aware the thing was capable of high-siding me in a straight line, never mind the fact that it'd pop a wheelie at any speed you'd dare consider.

Know what bikers do? They go out at 4 in the morning. They went out at 4 in the morning when I had a bike. And then went out at 4 in the morning when my father had a bike. What do GT2 owners probably do? Probably go out at 4 in the morning.

I'd bet that more GT2 owners are getting home at 4 a.m. than are going for drives at that hour. I'd find it sadly ironic that Porsche's most focussed and capable driver's car is more likely - in North America, at least - to be a trophy possession. Sure, some owners will track them, but I'd pull over and eat my shorts if I ever saw ANY rare-ish Porsche being run hard on my mountain or midnight runs.

 

[Goofnik]

I'd bet that more GT2 owners are getting home at 4 a.m. than are going for drives at that hour. I'd find it sadly ironic that Porsche's most focussed and capable driver's car is more likely - in North America, at least - to be a trophy possession.

This isn't a GT2 thing. It's not even just a 911 thing. It's a sports car thing. This Jalopnik comment this week was one of the best things I've read in a while, because it's hauntingly accurate.

A GT2 RS -- like a Corvette, or any other performance car -- is as much of an idea as they are a car. Most people want the idea -- the imagery associated with it, or something to point at to show they worked hard -- than they want the actual car.

 

[Goofnik]

Ring lap time guess 6:50. Faster than 918. Watch.

I'm still curious as to how low it will go. My assumption is faster than the 918 Spyder, but I'm sure someone at Weissach is unhappy with a Lamborghini being as quick as it is.

I still can't wrap my head around how quick the GT2 has to be. I've driven a 997.1 Turbo with a manual, and I've been given a 991.2 Carrera S with RWS to huck around New Hampshire Motor Speedway. The 997.1 basically teleported, and the boost rush was significant to where it sort of (but certainly nowhere near as much) reminded me of my Lancer Evolution (the 997.1 not being as peaky and savage, and the 991.2 being nearly linear as long as you were on it). I'd figure the GT2 RS has to be as peaky as the Evo was. Not many people are up for that, but I miss that kind of goofy old-school turbocharging.