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Discussion Starter #21
Missing O ring and cylinder wear pics...

So glad I am getting this work done, sad I have to spend all this money and time to get the motor I should have gotten from the factory.
 

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Saildoc,

I tried to encourage Jake Raby to report this production defect to PCNA, but he didn't seem interested. To me, this isn't a question of poor design (like the IMS issue or 987.1 oiling system, etc), but a production error that can/should be corrected.

If Porsche were aware that there could be M97 engines out there missing an O-Ring in the AOS system, eventually causing premature engine failure, there is a chance they may issue a Technical Service Bulletin for owners of M97's with suspected issues so that they could inspect the ends of this hose for missing O-Rings, and install them.

I would encourage you, as I've encouraged Jake, to be part of the solution here and possibly save other M97 engine owners from the same fate.

Let PCNA know what Jake found. Whether or not they choose to listen to you is their decision.

Log this issue using NHTSA's online form https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

I know that neither you or Jake are obligated to do anything about this. At the same time, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" goes the adage. I'm asking you to be part of the solution for untold numbers of M97 engine owners by alerting PCNA and NHTSA about this production defect.

Thanks! :cheers:
Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #23
This is a 9A1 motor. For obvious reasons I can't communicate with Porsche of North America. I would advise any other 2012 cayman owners with the 3.4 motor to check and make sure that O ring was installed.
 

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Why can't you communicate with Porsche of North America? It isn't like you are going to be demanding warranty coverage as you are taking the car completely out of stock form.

As far as checking for this O ring, can someone direct me as to where and how to check? Is it a matter of uninstalling the AOS to check?
 

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Why can't you communicate with Porsche of North America?
I'm not sure I understand the obvious reasons you aren't able to inform PCNA. Can you say more??
I think he means that telling PCNA about what he's doing may lead to instant warranty denial for any engine +/- drivetrain related issues. Engine, sure, but any other remotely related items could possibly be denied coverage - at least that's what OP may be afraid of (and I can respect that). Besides, what does he stand to gain? Raby is doing the engine work and it's not like Porsche will step in and pay for going to 4.2 L because of the missing o-ring.

I suppose one could alert PCNA by saying "hey, look what I found when I took AOS off while looking around"... but it ain't my place nor my call.
 
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This is not the first deficiency like this that I have found when going deep inside engines that are near new. The newest 9a1 that we have carried out our procedures to had 11 miles on it. With that one we found the vane cell adjuster retention bolt was left loose at the factory.

I have brought these things up to the manufacturer in the past, and have never had anything positive come from it. The last time I found a brand new crate engine with solidified chunks of coolant in the passages that would have killed the water pump if the engine ever would have been fired up along with chunks of metal debris in the oil sump I did let the local dealer know who sent it upstream.

An email from the fatherland was received that stated the issues were normal and that the engine had a 2 year 24.000 mile warranty so not to worry. That wasn't the case because the engine was not to have been installed by a dealer. The devil is in the details.

I replied to that email with pictures of the oil sump from the brand new never fired outside the factory engine along with a side by side comparison of a sump plate from one of my engines with 500 break in miles and 40 dyno runs on it. The difference was huge with mine having zero notable debris and the other having a ton of debris. When I stated that if theirs was normal that mine must be exceptional I never received another reply.

The manufacturer doesn't care for what we do. They consider it wasteful and unnecessary. We consider it quite the opposite.

Time is my most precious commodity and I don't appreciate it being wasted. Therefore I'll keep myself from further disappointment and just add the information to my own program.

I'll post some pics here of other issues the engine had as well as the O ring that was non existant upon my personal tear down of the engine. You can check your own car, but the oil sump must be removed completely to facilitate the inspection.
 

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I'm not a bit surprised about Porsche's response or lack of same. That ws exactly my experience as well.
 

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Saildoc,

Any news on progress?

Cheers,
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Re: Progress

It lives!!! Early dyno numbers on par with light turbo 3.4. Can't wait for the beast to return!
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Re: Progress

Update:
So those of you that have been following this prolonged build will know that the car has been away for over a year. I knew going into this it was going to be a bit of project. No major surprises or issues. Jake has been great to work with. I have a fun daily driver so I haven't been totally deprived while the Cayman is gone. I know Jake is not a big fan of posting on forums but I felt I had to share some feedback on the experience. Going into this I was weighing the options of a turbo kit vs. motor swap vs. a big bore conversion. We are nearing completion. Going with Fabspeed headers and high flow cats. Staying with the stock PSE muffler. Jake has posted the dyno at this point on facebook so I feel comfortable sharing. He is holding off tuning until we get the headers installed. Here is the dyno graph: check out that torque curve-I will be eating up rear tires for sure.


 

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Re: Progress

Update:
So those of you that have been following this prolonged build will know that the car has been away for over a year. I knew going into this it was going to be a bit of project. No major surprises or issues. Jake has been great to work with. I have a fun daily driver so I haven't been totally deprived while the Cayman is gone. I know Jake is not a big fan of posting on forums but I felt I had to share some feedback on the experience. Going into this I was weighing the options of a turbo kit vs. motor swap vs. a big bore conversion. We are nearing completion. Going with Fabspeed headers and high flow cats. Staying with the stock PSE muffler. Jake has posted the dyno at this point on facebook so I feel comfortable sharing. He is holding off tuning until we get the headers installed. Here is the dyno graph: check out that torque curve-I will be eating up rear tires for sure.


Any new updates on your car?

Cman21
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Re: Progress

Update on the Cayman R --> 4.2 conversion. The car is complete. Ready for shipment. Two issues came up in the build that were not anticipated and took some extra time. All off the shelf street clutches were too weak to handle the torque of the 4.2 liter motor. Several custom clutchs were fabricated to come up with a usable solution. After that was done Jake felt the stock headers were holding the motor back so went with FabSpeed headers and they were fabricated and installed. All the tuning is complete. Jake says the car is a monster now and I can't wait to get it. Shipper we chose is booked for three weeks so the wait continues. Just got off the phone with Jake and he is seeing more motors with missing O rings and oil aerration problems and film failure so watch out! The next quality disaster on the level of the IMS problem may be looming with 9A1 motors.
 

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Re: Progress

saildoc

Thanks for the update, three weeks and counting, your patience will soon be rewarded.

Don't be shy with the follow up posts, I'll look forward to reading them.

With regard to missing o rings, I am absolutely stunned, and I mean stunned, it really doesn't breed confidence does it? Did Jake indicate that there were any particular build years that seemed to be more effected, or did it seem a little more random?

Cheers
Rob
:cheers:
 
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