[rjm98119]

Got a quote from a dealer a couple days ago on a 718 CS with PDK, roughly $83K MSRP, sale price $81,500, with $5K out of pocket on a 36mo. lease (10K mi/yr) came out roughly $1500/mo. Before tax that's about $1360-1370 based on our tax rates.

That seemed quite high to me, especially based on a deal I got on my 2014 Cayman S back in 10/2014, but maybe my math is off? When I calculate it (either my own spreadsheet or something like leasehackr calculator) that pens out to a paltry residual of like 50%. I wonder if MRM is biting me here?

Based on my 2014 CS 27 mo lease, the numbers I was using suggested that a $83K 718 CS would have come closer to $1000-$1100, especially at something like a 56% residual (which is what I thought a 10K mi/year lease was on 718 CS's).

Anyone else have similar experiences, or is this dealer busting my chops?

 

[Jay Goldfarb]

Real simple math. You could finance $77,000 at 3.09% for 5 years with a payment of $1387. Why lease. That lease rate is ridiculous.

 

[photonscience]

I got this quote in January 2017

2017 718 BS
36 month lease
7500 miles per year

MSRP: $85455
residual: 56%
residual value: $47854
cash down: $10,000

Monthly payment: $1105 (all taxes etc included)

I thought this was too high and just paid cash for the car and got 6.5% discount on a custom order

P.S. I noticed that this dealer's website let's you play with lease and finance charges - based on this, I'd say your dealer SUCKS

https://jack-daniels.porschedealer.com/inventory/new/Porsche+718+Cayman+S+Upper+Saddle+River+New+Jersey+2017+Black+952074

 

[Spectre]

My own personal advice is if you must lease, budget it without a large down payment... just in case something happens where you don't want/can't keep the car anymore/have someone pick up your lease. Unlike a down with financing, the lease down is just wasted money that doesn't realize its full potential until you've actually completed the entire lease term.

Personally I'd go the finance route.

 

[RickH]

Did you negotiate a price first? Many people make the mistake and think that if they are leasing the price is sticker and all they can do is talk about the out of pocket and the cost of money. The price is negotiable just the same as if you are buying the car and should be negotiated prior to working the details of the lease. You should be able to easily get $5K off the top of this car by just asking for it! As for the cost of money I believe that is pretty much set by Porsche unless you go through an independent. If I remember right cost of money to interest conversion is x2400. Yes you will pay higher interest when you lease vs buying, you can't get around that. Good luck!

 

[asolare]

Did you negotiate a price first? Many people make the mistake and think that if they are leasing the price is sticker and all they can do is talk about the out of pocket and the cost of money. The price is negotiable just the same as if you are buying the car and should be negotiated prior to working the details of the lease. You should be able to easily get $5K off the top of this car by just asking for it! As for the cost of money I believe that is pretty much set by Porsche unless you go through an independent. If I remember right cost of money to interest conversion is x2400. Yes you will pay higher interest when you lease vs buying, you can't get around that. Good luck!

Porsche has a money factor they charge the dealers but every dealer I went to marked it up as a way to add to their margins "invisibly". The money factor can quite definitely be negotiated down to the rate charged by PFS. After negotiating a price on the car, if you are interested in leasing say you will lease the car only if the dealer agrees to charge the exact rate charged them by PFS with no markup. I dd and the dealer agreed to that, significantly lowering the monthly payment.

 

[Fantom]

That dealer isn't busting your chops; he's attempting to pick your pocket.

Aren't there usury laws in Washington?

 

[filmhack]

That just sounds insane. I leased a 718 Cayman S, 2 months ago in Los Angeles. Expensive city with a lot of rich folks to throw money around on cars. Sticker on my car (6MT, Graphite Blue Metallic, PASM, Sport Chrono, 20" Carrera S Wheels in Platinum, 14-way power seats, Connect Plus, NAV PCM, Bose, Premium Package Plus) came to $84,320. After negotiating, the Gross Capital Cost was $75,539 with a Capitalized cost reduction of $1,886 for an Adjusted Capitalized Cost of $73,653 and a $47,219 Residual Value. I put down $4,000 (including tax, licensing, and DMV fees) and my payments are $919.53/month. Oh, and they made the last payment of $750 from my outgoing Audi S5. Maybe I got a better deal because 6MT might be harder to sell in Los Angeles, and I'm on a 10K miles/year lease.. but even going up to 12.5K wouldn't make that much of a difference. That is just nutso.

 

[detectivekimble]

That just sounds insane. I leased a 718 Cayman S, 2 months ago in Los Angeles. Expensive city with a lot of rich folks to throw money around on cars. Sticker on my car (6MT, Graphite Blue Metallic, PASM, Sport Chrono, 20" Carrera S Wheels in Platinum, 14-way power seats, Connect Plus, NAV PCM, Bose, Premium Package Plus) came to $84,320. After negotiating, the Gross Capital Cost was $75,539 with a Capitalized cost reduction of $1,886 for an Adjusted Capitalized Cost of $73,653 and a $47,219 Residual Value. I put down $4,000 (including tax, licensing, and DMV fees) and my payments are $919.53/month. Oh, and they made the last payment of $750 from my outgoing Audi S5. Maybe I got a better deal because 6MT might be harder to sell in Los Angeles, and I'm on a 10K miles/year lease.. but even going up to 12.5K wouldn't make that much of a difference. That is just nutso.

What's your term, residual and money factor?

 

[Mainer]

You should NEVER put money down on a lease. If you drive off lot and total it, your out the capitalized cost reduction you just plunked down. Why give them free money up front. It defeats the point of leasing. If you can put 10,000 down, you should finance it.

 

[rjm98119]

Thanks for all the thoughts and replies. I think, in the end, part of the problem is that this dealer just doesn't give two ____s about my business. These guys have always been tough to deal with. In the end, I think I have to go down to CA to get one (Which is fine... I've done it before, made a little vacation/road-trip out of it).

Regarding the comment of "simple math":
there are some subtleties, I guess, like how you're taxed and how much you think you can sell it for later, but I agree that the math is telling the story pretty clearly in this case. Fortunately, in WA, we pay tax on depreciation/cap-reduction, not the whole thing. And, it doesn't seem unreasonable that a 3-year-old CS that was $80K could go for $50-$55K in 2020, based on asking prices for some low-mileage 2014 CS's right now.

I re-did some calculations the other day, and unless I really screwed up the math, if you keep the miles low and can sell, say, an $80K CS for like $55K in 3 years, the advantage always seems to go in favor of pure. Assuming sale @ $55K around 36mo mark, with 10-15K out of pocket now, even if you go 72 months (assuming rate under 4%) the edge is still several thousand $$$ in favor of finance (using our local TTL estimates and local, eye-popping sales/use tax rate of just over %10).

This just seems weird to me... I guess I'm in denial b/c I'm much more used to BMW's insane, over-inflated residual lease methodology, plus I actually did get a decent deal on my 2014 CS back at the end of 2014. The MF penned out to like .0008, and the residual on a 7500/mi 27/mo lease was like 60%. (I guess the residual is not that good, but MF was... I think...)

 

[dc2112fan]

I've followed this thread closely since up until this last weekend I was going to lease a new 718 Cayman. Actually, this is my first post on this forum as I've only been a reader until now. I'm coming out of a BMW 2 series lease toward the end of the year. I've also done exhaustive research into Porsche leasing in the last six months since the Caymans hit the dealers. While I'm no expert, I've used .0020 as PFS's base money factor for all my calculations. That makes the interest rate 4.8%. Based on my talks with my dealer this last weekend it seems that PFS raised the base MF to .0022 as of April 1st. That makes the interest rate 5.28%. Dealers can take it up from there if they choose. I was not willing to take anything less than base as I have tier 1 credit.

Since, unlike BMW, residual info is not easy to come by in the Porsche world I used the recent deal of $739 per month off the website for the 718 to run numbers. I was able to calculate 61% for a 3 yr / 5k lease. Using my knowledge that meant that a 3 yr / 15k (which is what I wanted) was 56%. In case anyone was wondering the Boxster is 1% higher. While not great, still better than the TTS I was also considering at one time.

Also, I was looking to build a really low optioned base that MSRP'd at $63920. I was shooting for 7% discount. That would've made my monthly payment $847 per month. That includes zero cap cost reduction but paying first month's payment, acquisition fee, dealer fees, and TTL, which in Oklahoma we pay tax on the entire purchase price (only 3.25% however). That comes out to around $4100 at drive off.

As as side note, I calculated all of the other model residuals. For the same 3 yr / 15k lease everything else was around 59-60%. I asked my dealer about it. He said he believed Porsche would raise the rates maybe once this year, probably last quarter. I know that Porsche will only residualize (if that's the right word?) so much of the price of the car, but wherever that number is, it's way over the car I was building. So, anyone building S models or heavily optioned base models could run into that issue.

Porsche is also offering lease conquest for my BMW which would've paid for the last 3 lease payments.

In the end, I couldn't get the 7% from that dealer (5% was his highest). That, combined with the raised MF put me over where I was willing to go financially. I could've shopped it around to see if I could get to 7%, but with the interest rates now being min 5.28% that meant I needed more like 8-9% discount. Didn't think I had a chance at that. I've also learned that every residual point on a 3 yr / 15k lease translates to about $15 per month on the payment. Every % off MSRP is about $20.

So, two days ago, I purchased a well equipped 2014 base 981 Cayman. It happened to be Dark Blue Metallic which is the color I was building on the 718 and more options that I would've been able to add on a new one. I feel like I got a pretty good deal on it. I didn't get it because "it sounds better", although I at least now understand what the 981 people are so passionate about. It was strictly financial reasons, but I absolutely love this car so far.

I believe in time the leasing will be better on the 718, possibly the end of the year. I can see myself in a year or so, trying again for a 718.