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Well here is proof that I can't rely on my butt dyno...
I had the APR ECU and exhaust installed in December. I purchased them through the local Porsche dealer. I was impressed with the perceived extra torque, power and the sound of the exhaust.
The trouble started in march at a DE event, where they were doing dyno runs, and donating the proceeds to a charity. I ran 267 hp and 227 ftlbs torque, exactly the same as the stock 2006 Cayman S that ran immediately after me...
APR claim on their website that their 93 octane UCU with the APR catback exhaust will give an additional 25hp and 49 ftlbs torque.

After this I dealt with the local Porsche dealership, who in turn dealt with APR. The process has taken 3 months, as APR do not respond quickly:
* we checked and confirmed that the 93 octane ECU was properly installed, and redid the dyno run - exactly the same results. 267 hp, 227 ftlbs.
* we removed the UCU program and the APR exhaust, and put the car back to stock, redid the dyno - same results 268hp, 226 ftlbs.
* at APR's request we installed their 100 octane ECU upgrade, filled the tank with 100 octane fuel (@ $8 per gallon), and redid the dyno - same results 268hp, 227 ftlbs.

I have attached a summary of the dyno runs - see if you can detect any difference between the runs.
004 is with the 93 ECU and Catback;
006 and 007 are Stock;
002 and 003 are 100 ECU with 100 octane fuel.

Conditions:Temperatures were between 79 and 82 deg F, Pressure 30.35 and 30.26 in-Hg, Humidity 44% to 45%, and SAE 0.98 to 0.99.

Bottom line:
The local Porsche dealer has refunded me for the ECU upgrade, the exhaust, and the additional $450 costs of getting the dyno runs, including fuel costs.
They are continuing to try to get something back from APR, who claim that their software is fine, there must be something wrong with my car's DME, because it obviously will not accept the chip... However my DME checks out 100% with the Porsche diagnostics.
I give full marks to the Porsche dealership for refunding me and taking on APR on their own nickel. That's customer service!
I am pleased that I did not deal directly with APR, if I had I would now be sitting with $2800 with of upgrades that simply do not work, and $450 spent proving it.
 

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Ouch, I wonder if this has anything to do with why APR pulled out of being a sponsor here and hasn't been interested in coming back? I know they have a good reputation in the Audi world, but Porsches are different and either their tune improves performance or it doesn't, your testing would seem to indicate that it doesn't, but obviously a lot of factors involved, would be interesting to know scientifically what is going on... For grins you ought to throw on a Softronic or other tune and hit the same dyno and see if another vendor gives you a performance gain or not.
 

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Without a doubt very interesting results. I'm surprised with the results but even more surprised that no one else has gone through this. It certainly makes me feel a little better having gone with Softronics.

As for the shop that refunded all your money, I wish there were more shops like that.

-Moto
 

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I think Ed used the APR chip and I think his was a 2006 CS too? I'm guessing he was happy with his but don't know if he specifically dyno'ed that one mod.
 

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interesting... i am VERY surprised that the exhaust made no difference... that does not add up at all... I would look to either the dyno or something is wrong with the car.

separately, more than 5 hp gains from a chip is unlikely unless 94+ octane is used...
 

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Has anyone done this for GIAC or Softtronic tunes? Seems APR isn't worthwhile...
Yes, I had a Porsche dealer install a GIAC tune on my base 2009 PDK Cayman. I have been very pleased with the results, but never had a dyno run to confirm the butt dyno. I also have an FVD catback exhaust system which I am very pleased with.
 

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First of all, thanks for posting all this, it's great to see independent results of these tunes.

The local Porsche dealer has refunded me for the ECU upgrade, the exhaust, and the additional $450 costs of getting the dyno runs, including fuel costs.
You've got a great dealer! I'm impressed that they did an ECU tune for you at all, and to take it all back for a rebate is very cool. Of course it's what they should do, but far too often we hear about dealers not doing what's right.
 

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Yes, I had a Porsche dealer install a GIAC tune on my base 2009 PDK Cayman. I have been very pleased with the results, but never had a dyno run to confirm the butt dyno. I also have an FVD catback exhaust system which I am very pleased with.
I believe when he said

Has anyone done this for GIAC or Softtronic tunes? Seems APR isn't worthwhile...
the "this" meant a real independent dyno, not just a butt dyno.

Tunes and exhaust mods are a dime a dozen, with claims all over the map and lots of satisfied customers just based on butt dynos, but we really don't have many independent dynos backing up the claims with real numbers. (I stress independent as in not by the tuner because dynos are notoriously easy to manipulate).
 

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I believe when he said



the "this" meant a real independent dyno, not just a butt dyno.

Tunes and exhaust mods are a dime a dozen, with claims all over the map and lots of satisfied customers just based on butt dynos, but we really don't have many independent dynos backing up the claims with real numbers. (I stress independent as in not by the tuner because dynos are notoriously easy to manipulate).
We have tons of dyno results in our Dyno forum, check there for any particular item you are looking for. I know plenty of Softronic dyno tests, and if I'm not mistaken even an old GIAC test that might be in our Articles section as well. I don't think I ever saw another APR test other than the one in this topic thread, but I can't say that I remember all the tests because there have been a lot of them. Just about every exhaust has been dyno tested at some point. I'm talking by owners of the cars, not vendors.
 

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We have tons of dyno results in our Dyno forum, check there for any particular item you are looking for. I know plenty of Softronic dyno tests, and if I'm not mistaken even an old GIAC test that might be in our Articles section as well. I don't think I ever saw another APR test other than the one in this topic thread, but I can't say that I remember all the tests because there have been a lot of them. Just about every exhaust has been dyno tested at some point. I'm talking by owners of the cars, not vendors.
Not to be a stick in mud but some of the dyno threads have no attachments. Should I report such posts?

http://www.planet-9.com/porsche-dyno-charts/43089-ipd-plenum-my-first-mod-dyno.html
http://www.planet-9.com/porsche-dyno-charts/33778-dyno-before-after-custom-exhaust.html
 

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I believe when he said



the "this" meant a real independent dyno, not just a butt dyno.

Tunes and exhaust mods are a dime a dozen, with claims all over the map and lots of satisfied customers just based on butt dynos, but we really don't have many independent dynos backing up the claims with real numbers. (I stress independent as in not by the tuner because dynos are notoriously easy to manipulate).
Ok, maybe I was too subtle! What I meant was that all I have is anecdotal evidence that GIAC seems to work well. I would have done a real dyno, but here in Houston they are not cheap for some reason. I'm still interested however, hint, hint! I know one shouldn't trust the subjective feel of a power modification because of the placebo effect.

My Porsche dealer, Momentum Porsche of Houston, has researched all of the ECU upgrades for Porsches and finds the GIAC to be the most effective and reliable so far. So that was their call, but I suspect there are other ECU upgrade products which would yield similar results at this time. I sure wish they had a cheap dyno service to offer.
 

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Ok, maybe I was too subtle! What I meant was that all I have is anecdotal evidence that GIAC seems to work well. I would have done a real dyno, but here in Houston they are not cheap for some reason. I'm still interested however, hint, hint! I know one shouldn't trust the subjective feel of a power modification because of the placebo effect.

My Porsche dealer, Momentum Porsche of Houston, has researched all of the ECU upgrades for Porsches and finds the GIAC to be the most effective and reliable so far. So that was their call, but I suspect there are other ECU upgrade products which would yield similar results at this time. I sure wish they had a cheap dyno service to offer.
Your dealer is pulling your leg....
 

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Ok, K-man, in what sense is my leg being pulled, re: dealer upgrade certifications? I do trust your opinion, so tell us what this means.
 

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Ok, K-man, in what sense is my leg being pulled, re: dealer upgrade certifications? I do trust your opinion, so tell us what this means.
No Porsche dealer is going to spend the time or the $$$ to test all of even the major Ecu tunes in every car in the lineup. Certainly they won't pay to Dyno them all etc. I suspect they recommend GiAC because that's what they sell. In head to head tests on Caymans between different ECU tunes I can tell you that GiAC did not place in the top 3, not even sure if they placed in the top 5....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means I'm probably traveling at the moment so please excuse any brief or hurried replies, spelling errors, etc. Etc.
 

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No Porsche dealer is going to spend the time or the $$$ to test all of even the major Ecu tunes in every car in the lineup. Certainly they won't pay to Dyno them all etc. I suspect they recommend GiAC because that's what they sell. In head to head tests on Caymans between different ECU tunes I can tell you that GiAC did not place in the top 3, not even sure if they placed in the top 5....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means I'm probably traveling at the moment so please excuse any brief or hurried replies, spelling errors, etc. Etc.
Were would one find that comparision information on ecu tunes ?

Cman21
 

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No Porsche dealer is going to spend the time or the $$$ to test all of even the major Ecu tunes in every car in the lineup. Certainly they won't pay to Dyno them all etc. I suspect they recommend GiAC because that's what they sell. In head to head tests on Caymans between different ECU tunes I can tell you that GiAC did not place in the top 3, not even sure if they placed in the top 5....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means I'm probably traveling at the moment so please excuse any brief or hurried replies, spelling errors, etc. Etc.
There was an additional complication in my case. At the time, about a year ago, no ECU existed for a 2009 base (non-DFI) PDK Cayman. GIAC agreed to put the first one together for my car. It turns out that the PDK base Cayman uses the 911 turbo DME module as does the Panamera.

Because of this, no Cayman ECU products existed to accommodate the new flash protocol for that DME. Since Porsche does not freely publish these protocols, they had to be reverse engineered by GIAC. Now, I believe there are some other products available.

This was what I was told, as well as that of the vetting of other ECU products by my dealer over the years. How extensive this selection process was I can't really say. I can only testify that I have been very pleased with the performance improvement, although not quantitatively verified as yet.
 

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Were would one find that comparision information on ecu tunes ?

Cman21
In the Articles section and forum in terms of dyno sheets for different tunes on the same cars, there hasn't been a price vs. performance comparison done in one grand article as I could never get the different vendors to agree to do it.

There was an additional complication in my case. At the time, about a year ago, no ECU existed for a 2009 base (non-DFI) PDK Cayman. GIAC agreed to put the first one together for my car. It turns out that the PDK base Cayman uses the 911 turbo DME module as does the Panamera.

Because of this, no Cayman ECU products existed to accommodate the new flash protocol for that DME. Since Porsche does not freely publish these protocols, they had to be reverse engineered by GIAC. Now, I believe there are some other products available.

This was what I was told, as well as that of the vetting of other ECU products by my dealer over the years. How extensive this selection process was I can't really say. I can only testify that I have been very pleased with the performance improvement, although not quantitatively verified as yet.
Agreed that the 2009 base Cayman was not at the top of the list for tuners to develop an ECU tune for when the car came out. It's good of GIAC to go to the effort and it would be nice to know the before and after dyno results of that specific tune. I was speaking on the point of ECU tunes for Cayman S models, and more so on the Gen 1 cars since that's where the most tunes are available. GIAC does make good tunes, but they are not always providing the most power and their prices tends to be higher than average.

I should put together a Gartner style magic quandrant on ECU tunes! :hilarious:
 
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