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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
And I agree with onthecod when he said that "you're more likely to see a full electric Cayman". That my friends, (and the end of the manual transmission), is the sad reality of the future.
Sorry for OT, but I think it is very pertinent to the quoted text :)

I once read a great book about an Italian-born, French-trained in sword combat, England-educated young freemason in exile in Philadelphia because he killed a guy in a duel back in Italy. Anyhow, the most memorable part of the book went something like this ... (I wish I could find verbatim, it was exquisitely written)

"It was a very hot early afternoon of the first week of July and innkeeper kept an eye on the young olive-skinned gentlemen drinking copious amounts of wine in the corner of the tavern, all by himself. It was too hot for alcohol consumption in such quantities. Suddenly, the sound wave started expanding from the city center, growing louder and louder as many more bells joined the wave expanding to the outskirts together with loud yelping from dogs complaining what inconsiderate humans were doing to their sensitive canine ears. The young gentleman stood up abruptly and approached the innkeeper with fast but unsteady pace, handed over two silver coins to cover the charge and said:

- Do you hear this, my friend? This is the sound of History coming to roll over us and take us with her, whether we like it or not. Well, when she gets here please let her know that this gentleman prefers playing a piano in Louisiana brothel rather than being in her company.

With that, he abruptly turned and disappeared through the front door. What a strange fellow, innkeeper thought."
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Exquisite quote CinciOH for the things that abhor one most. Just exquisite. I love it!! But for me, the electric Cayman is welcomed. I'll have my CGTS and be able to get an electric version too. I kept my 944 Turbo for 23 years and I could still run rings around most other Porsche models- so I'm not worried but excited instead.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Sorry for OT, but I think it is very pertinent to the quoted text :)

I once read a great book about an Italian-born, French-trained in sword combat, England-educated young freemason in exile in Philadelphia because he killed a guy in a duel back in Italy. Anyhow, the most memorable part of the book went something like this ... (I wish I could find verbatim, it was exquisitely written)

"It was a very hot early afternoon of the first week of July and innkeeper kept an eye on the young olive-skinned gentlemen drinking copious amounts of wine in the corner of the tavern, all by himself. It was too hot for alcohol consumption in such quantities. Suddenly, the sound wave started expanding from the city center, growing louder and louder as many more bells joined the wave expanding to the outskirts together with loud yelping from dogs complaining what inconsiderate humans were doing to their sensitive canine ears. The young gentleman stood up abruptly and approached the innkeeper with fast but unsteady pace, handed over two silver coins to cover the charge and said:

- Do you hear this, my friend? This is the sound of History coming to roll over us and take us with her, whether we like it or not. Well, when she gets here please let her know that this gentleman prefers playing a piano in Louisiana brothel rather than being in her company.

With that, he abruptly turned and disappeared through the front door. What a strange fellow, innkeeper thought."
Those who aren't prepared for the future will get steamrolled by it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Those who aren't prepared for the future will get steamrolled by it.
Well, there is always Lousiana brothel, don't forget that. Since some of us will not participate in History no matter what. Freemason education or not.

So, my Louisiana brothel just might be moving to Texas, getting an F-250 V8 gasoline truck, 5 gallon hat and put Cayman in the second bay of 4 bay garage.

Come git me to steamroll me ...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Well, there is always Lousiana brothel, don't forget that. Since some of us will not participate in History no matter what. Freemason education or not.

So, my Louisiana brothel just might be moving to Texas, getting an F-250 V8 gasoline truck, 5 gallon hat and put Cayman in the second bay of 4 bay garage.

Come git me to steamroll me ...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I'm sure the folks driving around in horse drawn carriages said the same thing about those silly auto cars. You'll need to pry my buggy from my cold dead hands because those loud stinky contraptions will never catch on.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

I'm sure the folks driving around in horse drawn carriages said the same thing about those silly auto cars. You'll need to pry my buggy from my cold dead hands because those loud stinky contraptions will never catch on.
Agent Smith: "Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of ... inevitability."

Neo: "My name. Is. Neo."

Then bad things happen to Agent Smith ;)


Look, all quoting and joking aside, I am the first one to praise electric vehicles. I just don't want that for my toys that have no other use but to entertain me. And who is to say to a person (that can afford it) that riding on a horse through woods and putting yourself in peril just to maybe hunt something which you can kill with a drone sitting on your couch ... who is to say to that rich man that he is stupid? I wouldn't ...
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Being prepared for the future and disliking the prospect of it are not mutually exclusive. I have never been a fan of mobile phones, but I have one and use it. I still think that we were probably better off before they were invented.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Being prepared for the future and disliking the prospect of it are not mutually exclusive. I have never been a fan of mobile phones, but I have one and use it. I still think that we were probably better off before they were invented.
Better off how? Being stuck on the side of a desolate road waiting for someone other than a serial killer to drive by and help? As someone who has been in business for 30+ years I can attest to the fact the cell phones (especially smart ones) have made our operation (and lives) immeasurably more efficient. Techs in the field have instant access to schematics and endless information to help them do their jobs where in the old days, you found an office and waited for tech support for hours and maybe got a very hard to read fax drawing. Have their been downsides? Sure. But instant communication has saved tens of thousands of lives, perhaps millions and advanced us for the better at break neck speed.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Better off how? Being stuck on the side of a desolate road waiting for someone other than a serial killer to drive by and help? As someone who has been in business for 30+ years I can attest to the fact the cell phones (especially smart ones) have made our operation (and lives) immeasurably more efficient. Techs in the field have instant access to schematics and endless information to help them do their jobs where in the old days, you found an office and waited for tech support for hours and maybe got a very hard to read fax drawing. Have their been downsides? Sure. But instant communication has saved tens of thousands of lives, perhaps millions and advanced us for the better at break neck speed.
I was in business when we used to write letters and wait two weeks for a response. No widespread use of computers., but we managed to get it done.

Cell phones have made many tasks easier and have undoubtedly saved a few lives. However, that needs to be weighed against the carnage caused by cell phone/texting and driving - about 400,000 crashes and 3,500 deaths per year in the US. And then there are the people that walk and text and get hit by cars. I don't for a second advocate turning back, that Genie is out of the bottle. My point is that before we new about cell phones we didn't miss them, and in balance I think we were as well or better off.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

I was in business when we used to write letters and wait two weeks for a response. No widespread use of computers., but we managed to get it done.

Cell phones have made many tasks easier and have undoubtedly saved a few lives. However, that needs to be weighed against the carnage caused by cell phone/texting and driving - about 400,000 crashes and 3,500 deaths per year in the US. And then there are the people that walk and text and get hit by cars. I don't for a second advocate turning back, that Genie is out of the bottle. My point is that before we new about cell phones we didn't miss them, and in balance I think we were as well or better off.
Interestingly enough they were making the same argument about a century ago with the invention of the automobile. Because we had zero auto deaths prior to them hitting the road. However, neither the auto nor the cellphones are the problem but rather it's distracted driving which has occurred since the first male driver spotted a shapely female walking along the road. If you look at the numbers, auto deaths were fairly steady for years but began a sharp decline in 2007 and it continued despite millions of cellphone users going mobile. So I suspect any distraction created by cellphones simply replaced other distractions which had been going on for years. Even though the numbers have ticked up during the last few years, so has the population and the number of miles driven so it is still far safer to drive now than in the pre-cellphone era.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

I suspect any distraction created by cellphones simply replaced other distractions which had been going on for years. Even though the numbers have ticked up during the last few years, so has the population and the number of miles driven so it is still far safer to drive now than in the pre-cellphone era.
Deaths are calculated by VMI, Vehicle Miles Driven. Population is not relevant and miles driven is the standard. But you are right that deaths per VMI has dropped dramatically. This is easy to verify, just look at Wiki or the NHTSA. All the data is there. Much of that downtick in 2007 is about safety devices.

National .08 limit kicks in 2005
ESC (PSM) kicks in 2007
Distracted driving PSA kick in 2009

and magically by 2011 the US is down to the lowest VMI rate ever (2014 is a bit lower), then magically - 2015 and the rates are up? Why? Lots of articles talk about "speed kills", more miles driven but more miles driven is meaningless. Nope, its a surprise.

Read https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/pdfs/workingpapers/27thecostofconvenience.pdf?la=en&hash=A15B1513F98D7A17B9E37F78DD2EBDC4C6338BFA

Who knew? It was Uber after all. Weird.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Deaths are calculated by VMI, Vehicle Miles Driven. Population is not relevant and miles driven is the standard. But you are right that deaths per VMI has dropped dramatically. This is easy to verify, just look at Wiki or the NHTSA. All the data is there. Much of that downtick in 2007 is about safety devices.

National .08 limit kicks in 2005
ESC (PSM) kicks in 2007
Distracted driving PSA kick in 2009

and magically by 2011 the US is down to the lowest VMI rate ever (2014 is a bit lower), then magically - 2015 and the rates are up? Why? Lots of articles talk about "speed kills", more miles driven but more miles driven is meaningless. Nope, its a surprise.

Read https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/pdfs/workingpapers/27thecostofconvenience.pdf?la=en&hash=A15B1513F98D7A17B9E37F78DD2EBDC4C6338BFA

Who knew? It was Uber after all. Weird.
Of course population is relevant as is population density. Take a statistics course some time.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Of course population is relevant as is population density. Take a statistics course some time.
I said vehicle miles driven, sorry its vehicle miles traveled, VMT. Deaths per VMT is the standard. From 2008, The number of vehicle miles traveled (VMT) is the primary exposure measure used when analyzing the occurrence of fatal motor vehicle crashes. VMT is collected by the Federal Highway Administration

From the DOT "The exposure data most frequently used are estimates of vehicle miles traveled (VMT) that FHWA collects through the Highway Performance Monitoring System. This system provides a standard, recognized database that covers all regions of the United States."

VMT calculation per DOT "VMT refers to the number of miles vehicles travel over a given time period, and is routinely used to measure traffic on America's roads and bridges and to calculate important statistics including traffic fatalities" [bold mine]

See anything in there about "population?" Ever know anyone in an accident that killed more than one person, with multiple fatalities? Do the statistics care whether 1 person traveled 1,000,000 miles or 1,000,000 people traveled 1 mile.

to add to this, back in the 60s it was common to see highway deaths discussed in terms of hitting 50,000 lives per year or 500 deaths on Labor Day weekend. This used to be widely broadcast. Oh no, 500 dies on Labor Day three day weekend. You don't see that anymore. Then number of deaths is deceptive. Its the number of miles driven that matters - according to DOT.

The facts don't change. The population has increased dramatically the last 70 years yet the number of deaths have dropped, and the number of deaths per mile driven has dropped. The trend for deaths is down regardless of population increase, hence the standard for measurement is lowest common denominator of "deaths per miles driven".

 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

If it didn't matter then the gov wouldn't include it in their data sets but they do because it's relevant. Among numerous fields of study, they use all that data in how they design and redesign our roadway systems. They then study the results based upon these factors. Even you should be able to understand that it's like a recipe, all the ingredients relative to the outcome matter.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Take a statistics course some time.
Even you should be able to understand that it's like a recipe
First, you went direct to an ad hominem attack, something the rules forbid. Then, you went to the red herring.

You wrote: "... auto deaths were fairly steady for years but began a sharp decline in 2007 ... Even though the numbers have ticked up during the last few years, so has the population"

I was only responding to auto deaths and that the population is not relevant how the statistics are published. Even gross deaths, not per VMT, have dropped, regardless of population. 2017 over 2016, population rises 3M, deaths dropped by 650, deaths/VMT drops yet VMT per year INCREASES. Population? Not relevant.

The standards for measuring auto deaths is deaths/VMT. Argue with the DOT if you don't believe it. So you went to "design and redesign our roadway systems.", a subject not related to the statistical nature of auto deaths, the old red herring.



Please don't go the ad hominem route again, its a sign of losing the argument before its begun. I welcome counter arguments, provide your sources showing that deaths/vehicle miles traveled is not the standard for the DOT. Maybe I misread all the reports over the years. You know those graduate statistics classes I took were so many years ago
:(

 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

If it didn't matter then the gov wouldn't include it in their data sets but they do because it's relevant. Among numerous fields of study, they use all that data in how they design and redesign our roadway systems. They then study the results based upon these factors. Even you should be able to understand that it's like a recipe, all the ingredients relative to the outcome matter.
What the government chooses to do is not a strong argument. But then again I'm a Libertarian.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Awesome find.
BTW, I don't know that Uber is the real reason but https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/usdot-releases-2016-fatal-traffic-crash-data

I've heard these results before. Not wearing a seat belt is rising, and with it more deaths. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/seat-belts

Of the 37,133 people killed in motor vehicle crashes in 2017, 47% were not wearing seat belts.

Just like there are people who start, or refuse to give up smoking knowing that it will probably kill them one day, some people refuse to wear seat belts.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

First, you went direct to an ad hominem attack, something the rules forbid. Then, you went to the red herring.

You wrote: "... auto deaths were fairly steady for years but began a sharp decline in 2007 ... Even though the numbers have ticked up during the last few years, so has the population"

I was only responding to auto deaths and that the population is not relevant how the statistics are published. Even gross deaths, not per VMT, have dropped, regardless of population. 2017 over 2016, population rises 3M, deaths dropped by 650, deaths/VMT drops yet VMT per year INCREASES. Population? Not relevant.

The standards for measuring auto deaths is deaths/VMT. Argue with the DOT if you don't believe it. So you went to "design and redesign our roadway systems.", a subject not related to the statistical nature of auto deaths, the old red herring.



Please don't go the ad hominem route again, its a sign of losing the argument before its begun. I welcome counter arguments, provide your sources showing that deaths/vehicle miles traveled is not the standard for the DOT. Maybe I misread all the reports over the years. You know those graduate statistics classes I took were so many years ago
:(

Cry me a river, chow. It's now small wonder that when I run into others who've left this site your name comes up.

If you don't like my discourse than avoid engaging me. Problem solved.

Since they calculate the population motor vehicle death as a number usually at 100,000 they must weigh that number based upon total population. This allows comparisons year over year, decade over decade. Additionally these numbers are compared regionally. The numbers are also factored with auto related pedestrian fatalities relative to population density. The fact is that you would expect to see the TOTAL number of auto related deaths to rise along with the population with everything else being static. I never reference VMT because it wasn't relevant to my comments. Just because you think it is doesn't make it so. This is exactly what I was referring to originally until you decided to butt in and make an *** of yourself as usual. That's not an ad hominem attack, it's just an observation. A damn cogent one at that.
 

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Re: 2018 Leftover Inventory is huge.

Since they calculate the population motor vehicle death as a number usually at 100,000 they must weigh that number based upon total population. This allows comparisons year over year, decade over decade. Additionally these numbers are compared regionally. The numbers are also factored with auto related pedestrian fatalities relative to population density. The fact is that you would expect to see the TOTAL number of auto related deaths to rise along with the population with everything else being static. I never reference VMT because it wasn't relevant to my comments. Just because you think it is doesn't make it so. This is exactly what I was referring to originally until you decided to butt in and make an *** of yourself as usual. That's not an ad hominem attack, it's just an observation. A damn cogent one at that.
You wrote "Even though the numbers have ticked up during the last few years, so has the population and the number of miles driven" This implies that increased population means more deaths. Did you imply something else?

You then wrote:
The fact is that you would expect to see the TOTAL number of auto related deaths to rise along with the population with everything else being static.

Thats the whole point of this. Did the increased population in 2017 vs 2016 mean a higher VMT death rate or a higher death rate per 100,000 between? No, it did not. Both went down. Its all there on Wiki.Since 1926, the deaths per VMT have consistently dropped over the years. If you choose to use fatalities per 100,000, they have consistently dropped since 1941. It doesn't matter which statistic you choose, population is not relevant. The cars are getting safer and safer. Death rates continue downward.

I'm not writing "for you". I'm writing to ensure people can go to the links, like WIKI or DOT, and just look the numbers up. They can make up their own minds based on actual data.

What might appear to be obvious, sometimes is not obvious.
 
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