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My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles on my new Porsche 911. The repair cost me $10,000 because Porsche refused to honor their warranty. Has anyone else had to replace their PCCB rotors?

For those of you looking for more details, I have described my experience at length in a blog post at Jimmy348.
 

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My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles on my new Porsche 911. The repair cost me $10,000 because Porsche refused to honor their warranty. Has anyone else had to replace their PCCB rotors?

For those of you looking for more details, I have described my experience at length in a blog post at Jimmy348.
I had a GT2 with the gen1s they lasted 600 track miles. $12,000 to replace . porsche warranted then. but this was 10 years ago. just replace them with steels they are heavier but stop just as good. theres a reason why no pro teams race them. carl
 

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My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles on my new Porsche 911. The repair cost me $10,000 because Porsche refused to honor their warranty. Has anyone else had to replace their PCCB rotors?

For those of you looking for more details, I have described my experience at length in a blog post at Jimmy348.

Hmmm first post is a post inviting members to go read an extensive blog about early rotor burn-out on rear rotors that were PCCB's but also subjected to hundreds of track miles. I would perhaps be more interesting to see the actual rotors that failed, did they fail due to cracks? what is "heat" failure on a ceramic rotor? You couldn't get them hot enough to melt without melting other parts of your car first. It's pretty well known that PCCB's are expensive to replace and doing lots of track days with them will only cause them to wear out faster, especially on a heavy car like a Turbo S where you are going to use your extra power to go faster and then have to pull down all that weight at speed. It would be interesting to see if PTV does in fact have any detrimental effect on rear brakes (ceramic or otherwise) over time. Surely if PTV were always applying the rear brakes silently then we'd see lots and lots of cars with PTV with premature early rear brake wear, not just PCCB cars.

Of course if your car was brand new and still under warranty and Porsche won't honor their warranty because you took your car to the track (which is disclaimed in your warranty btw), then you could always hire an attorney and have your day in court to see if others agree with you.

So while I don't doubt you had problems with your PCCBs and that you are upset because of this, I'm not sure I really understand exactly what happened to your rotors because your blog doesn't have any specifics but rather has a lot of guesses as to what might be the cause or possible solution, etc.
 

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My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles on my new Porsche 911.
1. Before driving it for 900 miles on a track, did you research the experience of others who came before you or did you just go do it?

2. Did you read your warranty book before tracking the car?

3. Do you realize that PAG has to approve such repairs and what the dealer says means little?

Just wondering.
 

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Did you use a Pagid RSC1 on track like you were supposed to? If not, why not?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

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Gen 1 fail much more often than Gen 2. Many, many people swap out the ceramics for steels for track use - the pad selection is MUCH more extensive. And you still have the HUGE caliper and rotor sizes. Yep, we have bolt on replacements for PCCBs :)
 

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I think Ken called it on this one.

I think he's just going to every Porsche forum looking to drive traffic to his blog.
 

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I think Ken called it on this one.

I think he's just going to every Porsche forum looking to drive traffic to his blog.
No, he chose to ignore the questions here and answered on 6SP getting called out for that. He does not appear to be driving traffic to a blog but just found out the hard way what not to do. Sounds legit.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
1. Before driving it for 900 miles on a track, did you research the experience of others who came before you or did you just go do it?

2. Did you read your warranty book before tracking the car?

3. Do you realize that PAG has to approve such repairs and what the dealer says means little?

Just wondering.
Sorry for the slow response. I've been focused on the birth of my grandson on Monday.:)

1. I only consulted with my salesman who said to go for it.
2. Yes, of course. The owner's manual said to inspect the car before each event which was done by the dealer. They found nothing to worry about.
3. No.
 

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Sorry for the slow response. I've been focused on the birth of my grandson on Monday.:)

1. I only consulted with my salesman who said to go for it.
2. Yes, of course. The owner's manual said to inspect the car before each event which was done by the dealer. They found nothing to worry about.
3. No.

Thank you for responding. I read the 6sp thread and I know they called you on it. Your complaints sounded legit but I guess its a hard lesson to learn. I don't think people who track use the PCCBs because its just too expensive to replace. I guess there is a lesson there about listening to salesmen :)

Thank you.
 

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Thank you for responding. I read the 6sp thread and I know they called you on it. Your complaints sounded legit but I guess its a hard lesson to learn. I don't think people who track use the PCCBs because its just too expensive to replace. I guess there is a lesson there about listening to salesmen :)
Yes, there is definitely an expensive lesson here. I don't want to flog this to death, but I'd like to add one more bit of info.

Here is what my copy of the current 911 sales brochures says, in part, about PCCB:

“Keep in mind that the service life of any brakes–even the most durable–will be greatly reduced if used for circuit racing, track days, or other high-performance driving.”

Note that there is no mention of driving technique. This implies to me that you can damage the brakes regardless of your driving style. Nor does it define “other high-performance driving.” Does driving fast on twisty, hilly roads qualify as such?

This, I believe, leaves the owner completely in the dark as to where the limits of safe driving end and where damage to the PCCBs begins. This is why I believe that, until Porsche installs brake temperature sensors and a PTV on-off switch, it is imperative that “buyer beware.”
 

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My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles on my new Porsche 911. The repair cost me $10,000 because Porsche refused to honor their warranty. Has anyone else had to replace their PCCB rotors?

For those of you looking for more details, I have described my experience at length in a blog post at Jimmy348.
Hi
I am new to this forum and I thought I would also relate my experience with PCCB.

I have had the unfortunate experience of all the rotors on my 997 Turbo S being close to stuffed at 22,000km. The majority of this was hwy driving and around 3,000 thousand km of spirited mountain pass driving. The brake rotors have not been overheated as evident by the 3 circles of about 15mm diameter on each disk face. These circles are on Gen2 rotors and it is my understanding that the area inside the circles has a lower temperature resistance so when the rotors are operated at or over their maximum temperature these circles become obvious. On my front rotors at least the circles are practically invisible. My OPC also confirmed that the rotors showed no sign of overheating.
What I did find out from my OPC after they enquired to Germany was that the rotor surface oxidizes when over 400C. This results in a loss of surface friction material mainly from around the edges of the thin friction areas on the surface. So from this it seems that any driving that causes the rotor temperature to exceed 400C WILL cause the rotors to deteriorate by loss of surface material. This also supports what I have heard about weighing the rotor as one way to determine its condition and that measuring the rotor thickness is of no use unless it is totally stuffed. Mine all measure exactly the thickness stamped on them. It is also my understanding that different pad compounds offer varying degrees of protection from oxidation.

While I am no expert on PCCB I have come to the following conclusions.
They will last a very long time as long as you do not exceed 400C. At least not to often or for to long.
Every second they are over 400C they are deteriorating.
They work great hot or cold.
You will chew through pads at a scary rate once the rotor surface starts to roughen. You can see more of the lighter colored substrate than you can the dark
Be careful if they are really wet. But this applies to brakes in general.
Clean wheels are a nice bonus.

As a point of reference my 997.1 Turbo with steel brakes which was driven in the same style and conditions to the TurboS was sold with 35,000km on the clock and the original front rotors were at 32.9mm so just over half way to min thickness but they would probably have excessive cracking before they reached min thickness. In my case the steels have proven far more durable.

I am currently using upsized ceramic rotors 392mm x 35mm front and 362mm x 29mm rear. They are drop in replacements along with caliper spacers and longer bolts. So far so good and they can be resurfaced up to 4 times. As for a steel solution I was unable to locate a manufacture that had a drop in replacement rotor set but that was 6 months ago.
 

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Some interesting things in this thread, rather then starting another, is there any more updates on the durability of PCCB's?

Since this was nearly 6 years ago, and they were already to Gen-2 ceramic discs are the current ones better, and have a new 'Gen' number?

I noticed that the sizes quoted by the post just above on a 911 Turbo are still smaller than the ones that are to come on the 718 GT4 and Spyder, will this larger size help with cooling and longevity?

Anybody know what 'resurface-able' ceramic discs he talks about?
 

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Some interesting things in this thread, rather then starting another, is there any more updates on the durability of PCCB's?

Since this was nearly 6 years ago, and they were already to Gen-2 ceramic discs are the current ones better, and have a new 'Gen' number?

I noticed that the sizes quoted by the post just above on a 911 Turbo are still smaller than the ones that are to come on the 718 GT4 and Spyder, will this larger size help with cooling and longevity?

Anybody know what 'resurface-able' ceramic discs he talks about?
Larger brakes always help cooling. Braking force is torque. Torque is force on the pads times the distance to the axle. For the same torque, larger diameter rotors means less force is required on the pads. Force generates friction and hence heat. So larger rotors means less heat.

I believe there is a uk company that can resurface the discs at a fraction of new.

V6
 

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Some interesting things in this thread, rather then starting another, is there any more updates on the durability of PCCB's?

Since this was nearly 6 years ago, and they were already to Gen-2 ceramic discs are the current ones better, and have a new 'Gen' number?

I noticed that the sizes quoted by the post just above on a 911 Turbo are still smaller than the ones that are to come on the 718 GT4 and Spyder, will this larger size help with cooling and longevity?

Anybody know what 'resurface-able' ceramic discs he talks about?
Current 991/981/718 PCCBs are the third version and reportedly last longer. Still, most buyers intending to track their cars extensively will opt for iron brakes due to the high cost of PCCB rotors. Last time I considered it the PCCB rotors would need to last 8 to 10 times as long as iron. I could never get comfortable that they would last that long or that I wouldn't chip or gouge them due to debris or changing wheels. For track use a good 2 piece iron rotor like AP racing is a good choice.

For road use PCCBs should last a very long time although chipping them is still a risk.
 

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These PCCB's would be spec'd on the new Spyder, so only occasion track days (perhaps once a year), may be considered more of a spirited drive on the track then a track day! Mostly spirited back road street driving, so I figured their life span (not counting damage) would be nearly lifetime?

So I have found a few places that re-furbish or sell replacement rotors:

https://surfacetransforms.com/porsche-981-cayman-brake-kits $11k USD

https://www.remmenbrakes.com/products/carbon-ceramic-rotors/

Carbon Ceramic Brakes, Fusion Brakes | Where to Buy | fusionbrakes.com

https://www.rebrake.de/?lang=en $1500 Euro per disc

I guess the other option if needed would be to go with Giro Disc, cheaper but you are changing to steel discs...

https://www.girodisc.com/GT4-wPCCB-Rotors_c_1488.html
 

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3rd gen is pretty good. Many are using Pagid pads MADE FOR CERAMIC ROTORS. Shoot me a note -
 

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These PCCB's would be spec'd on the new Spyder, so only occasion track days (perhaps once a year), may be considered more of a spirited drive on the track then a track day! Mostly spirited back road street driving, so I figured their life span (not counting damage) would be nearly lifetime?

So I have found a few places that re-furbish or sell replacement rotors:

https://surfacetransforms.com/porsche-981-cayman-brake-kits $11k USD

https://www.remmenbrakes.com/products/carbon-ceramic-rotors/

Carbon Ceramic Brakes, Fusion Brakes | Where to Buy | fusionbrakes.com

https://www.rebrake.de/?lang=en $1500 Euro per disc

I guess the other option if needed would be to go with Giro Disc, cheaper but you are changing to steel discs...

https://www.girodisc.com/GT4-wPCCB-Rotors_c_1488.html
What's the thinking behind spec'ing PCCBS for the Spyder? Steelies will haul the car down from any street velocity time and time again, and even the stock rotors with the right pads are adequate for a whole bunch of track situations. The yellow PCCB calipers would look VERY nice on a yellow Spyder, but the brakes would likely be the priciest option on the car.
 

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What's the thinking behind spec'ing PCCBS for the Spyder? Steelies will haul the car down from any street velocity time and time again, and even the stock rotors with the right pads are adequate for a whole bunch of track situations. The yellow PCCB calipers would look VERY nice on a yellow Spyder, but the brakes would likely be the priciest option on the car.
Fair question, the Spyder is replacing a perfectly good Boxster GTS, so I have already accepted that the decision process is slightly skewed, this is my going in position... "The 718 Spyder. Perfectly irrational."

You are completely correct that the Steelies are capable of nearly all that is required but they somehow fall short when measured against what this car represents. A Boxster doesn't need a 4.0l engine, GT suspension or even bigger tires but the Spyder isn't just another Boxster, it is the representation of what the mid-engine platform (in the cabriolet) can achieve, I see those PCCB brakes as part of that formula.

With the S and GTS I held back, this time I am building a car that removes those restraints, for me the Spyder it is less about need and more about building it to represent the one of the best sports cars out there. :)
 
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