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op i wouldn't listen to most of these guys

m97's with basic deep sump oil pan and good oil hold up fine even for heavy track use. i have over 30 tracks days on my cayman with just jrz shocks and some sticky rs4's no issues at all in over 10 years now.....
 

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Even though I think a used replacement M96/97 with upgrades is the way to go for your given usage my next choice would be #4 a 987.2 engine.
You get a take out engine with the computer and any good race shop can convert the DFI wiring and plumbing. I wouldn't try doing that part yourself as you need some expertise on these system. I seen the shop I used effortlessly do this type of thing on a daily basis. This would probably be about the same money as a 986 replacement/mod 10-12k.
If however you are secretly thinking NOT just a nice street car with some DE/autocross then take this opportunity and spend the extra 7-8k and ended up with a super 400hp car
 

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Since you're planning on tracking this car, I would forgo this project and buy a track prepped 987.2. Yes you can rebuild/replace, or do the LS swap, but they're a huge hassle and you can never accurately estimate the cost. As far as repairing what is there, my dad bought an 06 with a spun rod bearing. He had the crankshaft repaired, meaning the repair shop sprayed metal on the journal and machined it down. He now thinks that the repair has failed.

987.2's have pretty much proven to be bullet proof, so that is the route I would go.

p.s. I had a confirmed IMS bearing failure in my 06 Cayman S, FWIW.
 

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Oh, and I sold my 06 to a guy that converted to a full on PCA spec racer. He refreshed the engine and it blew up the first time he had it on the track. It had a deep sump...
 

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Give Vision Motorsports a call. Having thought through all the options above, plus some others, their prices on a nicely improved M97 seem like a good compromise. That is my current contingency plan. Thankfully I haven’t Yet needed it.
 

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For those users of 987.1, who currently track their cars, how many have installed or modified their oil/water heat exchanger? That is besides the third radiator. Just trying to get to the best practice to reduce oil temp's to the rod bearings. I am currently using a 996 107 025 57. You can find the info in the P9 Articles under RSS News Feed, 376736111 Engine oil cooler.
 

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I'd put the chassis up for sale at a sort of high price. While that is for sale i'd look for a good deal on a junkyard stock motor. I'd go with whichever materialized first.
 

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Not sure if this idea is palatable or financially sound for you, but what about replacing the blown engine with a stock used unit. Sell the car as a functional vehicle, then replace it with a 987.2 or 981 with the more durable 9A1 engine?



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I joined the forum to get some feedback on a project I am considering, this seems like the right place to ask.

I have the opportunity (or nightmare) of bringing back to life a 2006 Cayman S. The car has a spun rod bearing, I plan to bring it back to life as a street car with 4-6 track days and 5-10 auto x days a year.

Looking at a few options I'd like to see if I have my facts right:

1. Swap in a stock used 987.1 motor. These seem to be going for 9k+ for well sorted examples on ebay, I am again taking on the risk of running into a similar issue as these motors don't seem to hold up very well. This is also the cheapest option.

2. Swap in a stock 987.2 motor, on paper this should be lower mileage, however more expensive, and it doesn't seem like a straight forward swap. At least not from the info I was able to find.

3. Swap in a LS motor, this is the most intrusive and most expensive, but all things considered between the motor and the renegade hybrids kit I'd be just over the cost a 987.1 motor and the rest of the cost (a few grand) will probably be spent on all the misc things that add up. This gives me the most power and potentially reliability with relatively cheap maintenance cost into the future.

I plan to keep the car so resale is of low importance, of high importance is reliability over the long term.
G'day. I have an alternate suggestion for you; look up (xx Motors in Long Beach, California, and give Jason Chott a call.

3 1/2 years ago my '05 Boxster lunched its IMS bearing after I had owned it all of 3 weeks. Not wanting to give up on the car I had Jason take apart and rebuild the engine. The rebuild itself was about US$8,000, but I had him basically refurbish everything from the engine bulk head back, not to mention add several reliability and performance mods, so the mechanical restoration cost me $15k.

Sure, that's crazy money for a Boxster, but the car runs like it's brand new (well, now a 3 year old car) and I don;t regret it one bit. If you're planning on rebuilding the engine then at least call Jason and tlak through the options with him.
 

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I have an 06 Cayman S and blew my engine 4 years ago with "money shift" and overrev. Had previously installed a Bilt deep sump to address oil starvation issues. Although originally this was supposed to just a problem for fully setup track cars running R compound tires, I have spoken to 2 or 3 people about failures with less stiff setups.

My solution was to work with BGB Motorsports in Florida to swap in a 997.2 Carrera S motor to create my own sleeper GT4. If this is going to be primarily a track car, that works great although it took a while to sort thru the electrical gremlins. Realize that in addition to the engine it requires you to replace the transmission, rear axle, exhaust + a jumper harness to get the 06 ECU and other pieces to speak with the second gen engine. The car can be a little schizophrenic at times. For example, the TPMS says is has failed by the the numbers pop up anyway!

If you want a street legal car, then check with your local government agencies to see if they'll accept the engine swap. Here in Massachusetts, if it's not an engine that was available in the car from the factory, it's not possible to get an inspection sticker. I'm still registered with a license plate, so I can drive on public roads to go to the shop or get gas when at the track, but I could get pulled over without a valid sticker. One other things, is it took some gymnastics to get the ABS, cruise control, and air conditioning to work.

If you'd like more insight into my experience, feel free to PM me. I now have another 20,000+ miles on the "refreshed" chassis (nearly 70,000 in total), and the car's a blast to drive.

Good luck.
 

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G'day. I have an alternate suggestion for you; look up (xx Motors in Long Beach, California, and give Jason Chott a call.

3 1/2 years ago my '05 Boxster lunched its IMS bearing after I had owned it all of 3 weeks. Not wanting to give up on the car I had Jason take apart and rebuild the engine. The rebuild itself was about US$8,000, but I had him basically refurbish everything from the engine bulk head back, not to mention add several reliability and performance mods, so the mechanical restoration cost me $15k.

Sure, that's crazy money for a Boxster, but the car runs like it's brand new (well, now a 3 year old car) and I don;t regret it one bit. If you're planning on rebuilding the engine then at least call Jason and tlak through the options with him.
I gave them a call when I was trying to decide on what to do with my engine. They quoted $8k price to me as well, plus any hard parts. And that is drop off the car and pick up one week later. However, when Dwayne gave me the offer on the 3.8L I could not say no.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
The feedback so far is almost overwhelming, I think one thing is for certain: there is no "right" way to move forward based on the polarized opinions here so far.

I do appreciate all the opinions though, some options brought forward are ones I didn't consider and this is why I came here.

I am really leaning towards 2 variations of this, if I find a clean motor that I can test and ensure is in good shape for a decent price I will perform the preventative mods that user Apex1 suggested, this is a good solution in my mind and one that meets my objectives. This depends on a big "IF" I can find a clean engine.

The second option is an LS swap, this isn't because this is the right thing to do, but I think it's an interesting to me project and I am up for the challenge. I am not in a rush. My reservation remains how far the engine protrudes into the cabin, I've seen someone resolve this by using gallardo transaxle which brings the engine back so you don't lose seat travel and it also lines up the axles better. This isn't cheap however, at that point an Audi V8 might be a better alternative as I get to at least use my transmission.

I want to keep the discussion going, I think this is a good brain storm for everyone and it could be a great resource/decision matrix for anyone stuck in this position in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I swapped a LS3 into my Cayman S. The car is a lot of fun. Weighs 2939 wet and has 442whp and 455wtq on our dyno. So well over 500 at the crank for both. Gets 30+ mpgs on the highway.

I built everything myself. Didn't use anything from Renegade. I'd suggest talking to some Renegade kit purchasers before going down that road.

I would strongly suggest a Porsche motor or if you really want a V8 an Audi 4.2 from an RS4. These bolt up to out transmission and fit in the car.

Feel free to hit me up if you have questions.
Hi Josh, I've followed your build thread/blog/youtube channel of the build, very impressive. I haven't been able to get clarity on your front seat situation with the LS and how your axles are holding up? Would love some feedback on that and how you solved for these two items.

Renegade seems to have a hit or miss reputation, I am open to building my own kit...where do I start? Any resources you can point me to?

Is there a reason you didn't go with an Audi V8?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
My last comment is on a rebuild, I looked at sourcing a stock crank for the M97 and you can only get them directly from Porsche for $5k. I am not sure how this engine could be rebuilt properly for 8k like someone had mentioned.
 

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Good, lets get a motor to play with. I can give you a list of parts to choose from. A 996 oil/water heat exchanger part #99610702557 is listed in the P9 articul RSS feed or OEM Behr 376726111, LN 2 qt deep sump/windage tray X51 baffle and 997 downtubes. I will check for 2 electric head extraction pumps and a screw on oil filter base where the extraction pumps line dump into. A Porsche 996 Motorsports AOS can be fitted with a little modifications for 1/2 the price of a Porsche 987 Porsche Motorsports AOS. That's the extent of the engine mods at this point. A 3rd center radiator will be needed when you track the car to help cool down the motor/oil exchanger.

I would suggest a leak down test for each cylinder. If you have access to a instrument that you can illuminate the cylinder walls through the spark plug holes to check off bore scoring. The leak down test would also point to a bad cylinder as well. Lastly, a automatic transmission motor maybe a good candidate due to less wear and tear You can reuse the flywheel and clutch from your original motor if its in good shape. Maybe a less aggressive driver used the automatic and also there is less risk of over revs that you may not get a read out about.

If the engine is still in the car, you might be able to start up, checking for rod noise, piston slap, valve tappet noise, and startup smoke. It is also a good idea to pull a small amount of oil out to check as well as the oil filter. Cut the filter apart with tin snips and lay the accordion filter flat to see if there is any metal bits in the filter, if so move on to another engine. You can buy a new $9.00 filter to put back into the engine if you do not buy it.
 

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My last comment is on a rebuild, I looked at sourcing a stock crank for the M97 and you can only get them directly from Porsche for $5k. I am not sure how this engine could be rebuilt properly for 8k like someone had mentioned.
Give Vision a call if you are looking to replace your crank. Dwayne has custom cranks built with oiling mods and knife-edge grind to reduce frothing. My engine has his crank in it.
 

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Hi Josh, I've followed your build thread/blog/youtube channel of the build, very impressive. I haven't been able to get clarity on your front seat situation with the LS and how your axles are holding up? Would love some feedback on that and how you solved for these two items.

Renegade seems to have a hit or miss reputation, I am open to building my own kit...where do I start? Any resources you can point me to?

Is there a reason you didn't go with an Audi V8?
My axles are still original. I've replace boots but no other issues so far (on the road for 3+ years now). My setup does not push the motor back as far as RH. I don't run CV spacers. Building your own kit is not trivial but it is doable. Just depends on your skills. If you're going to run the stock 6 speed transmission you'll need a KEP adapter and clutch. I did my own custom clutch so I could switch to different transmission with just a disk change. If you're set on LS get a motor and KEP adapter put them together and start test fitting. Remove the least amount of material that you can. Build a subframe and motormounts once you're happy with the motor position. From there you'll need to re-contain the motor; new firewall and engine compartment.

I didn't go Audi V8 because I thought the LS would be easier from an electronics standpoint and I thought I wanted more power.. Turns out 500+hp&tq is a handful :oops: The other significant issue for me was the easy availability of drysump systems for the LS. The Audi BNS motor has 414hp/317tq. The R8 V8 is basically the same motor with a drysump, however they are expensive. The power levels are very reasonable but upgrading the power is not easy/cheap.

I wouldn't build another LS powered Cayman.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
My axles are still original. I've replace boots but no other issues so far (on the road for 3+ years now). My setup does not push the motor back as far as RH. I don't run CV spacers. Building your own kit is not trivial but it is doable. Just depends on your skills. If you're going to run the stock 6 speed transmission you'll need a KEP adapter and clutch. I did my own custom clutch so I could switch to different transmission with just a disk change. If you're set on LS get a motor and KEP adapter put them together and start test fitting. Remove the least amount of material that you can. Build a subframe and motormounts once you're happy with the motor position. From there you'll need to re-contain the motor; new firewall and engine compartment.

I didn't go Audi V8 because I thought the LS would be easier from an electronics standpoint and I thought I wanted more power.. Turns out 500+hp&tq is a handful :oops: The other significant issue for me was the easy availability of drysump systems for the LS. The Audi BNS motor has 414hp/317tq. The R8 V8 is basically the same motor with a drysump, however they are expensive. The power levels are very reasonable but upgrading the power is not easy/cheap.

I wouldn't build another LS powered Cayman.

The last sentence is pretty discouraging. You are also the second person who has built one to say that.

Can you elaborate? What would you do with a cayman with a blown engine?
 

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My Cayman weighs 2939 wet and has 442whp/450wtq on our dyno. It's not slow! The LS doesn't really weigh any more then the OE motor. The problem is it just doesn't fit and the factory transmission isn't up to the task. Mine has held up so far but every time (literally) I floor it I expect the transmission to explode. The extent of the chassis mods required to make the LS fit properly is not trivial.

The cheapest tranmission that is up to the task is a Graziano and they are $15k with an adapter. So you're looking at $30k in parts without any of the extensive fabrication required. If you came into our shop for the swap you'd be looking at $50k.

I don't think you can get this much power any other reliable way cheaper. However, this car doesn't need this much power IMO. The Audi B7 RS4 V8 (BSN) bolts up to the stock transmission and fits in the car! The BSN makes 100hp over stock and won't destroy the transmission. It's just a lot more user friendly. It's not all sunshine and roses though. The OE electronics are not simple to integrate.

At the end of the day it just depends what you want. The simplest and cheapest solution is going to be an OE style Porsche motor for sure.


The last sentence is pretty discouraging. You are also the second person who has built one to say that.

Can you elaborate? What would you do with a cayman with a blown engine?
 
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