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What do I know? I’m at a brew-pub, immediately following a morning gathering of Porsche people, who’ve had a group tour of a mini gem of a museum housing much of the priceless automotive offspring of that chili cook-off legend from Texas.

And this guy across from me starts sprouting about brake fluid, how most of the products haven’t been updated in years, how some don’t meet DOT standards, how most of the hype is bogus and how he happens to market the best product out there.

And, best of all, just like the Texan’s iconic blue-with-white-stripe cars that conquered the world in the ‘60s, his product is made right here, in the good old US of A.

What?

I mean, I’ve been reading car magazines for 40-something years. I read the Brit magazines. I scour on-line forums. Have I ever seen an article on brake fluid? No. Do I know what this guy is talking about? No.

On the subject of brakes and brake fluid, you can’t stop this guy. “Of course, for ultimate stopping power, it’s all a matter of brake components, your rotor, caliper, the type of pads you use. But, and here’s the point… for better feel, sustained over hard use, like on a track, or even in the twisties, you need quality brake fluid.”

He goes on: “With a quality brake fluid, you won’t stop faster. Brake fluid doesn’t work that way. But, let me give you an example. Say you’re at Laguna Seca, coming out of the Corkscrew, into Turn 11... after a few hot laps…. Will the pedal be there? Do you trust it? If you have any doubts… any… whatsoever, you’re going to brake sooner, and you’re going to be slower.”

So where’s the cred? Who uses it? He tells me he has an exclusive arrangement with an IndyCar team owned by the son of a former Formula 1 world champion.

Do you advertise? “I wish. At this stage, we concentrate on demonstrating the product, and building word of mouth. But I have a website.”

Don’t we all.

Why’s your product so good? “I’m not a chemist. But I’ve done my homework. About 10 years ago, I started looking for a product to market specifically to the car enthusiast. And I realized that nobody approached brake fluid in a performance context, as a stand-alone product. I approached a global chemical company that has an OE automotive division, and we came up with another product, and I started the business.”

What happened? “Oh, the product was great - a very high boiling point - over 610 degrees F - with low compressibility. We were the supplier to a precursor IndyCar team. But we had legal problems with a distributor/investor, and everything fell apart.

“But I’m back. Thanks to my work with the chemical company, my new product is even better.”

What do other race teams use? “Castrol SRF, AP600. IndyCar, Formula 1, NASCAR too.” Have you approached them? “F1 wants you to make a significant investment, or they won’t talk to you. NASCAR‘s on the to-do list, but I really like road racing.”

And the high performance street driver? The canyon carver? The weekend track junkie? “If they’ve ever put in their own brake fluid, rather than left it to the dealer, it’s usually ATE Super Blue. And that’s a lot of the challenge. They think that’s fine for them. So, why change? Why spend the money for a premium product? What I’m saying is that there’s a whole other level of reliability in performance braking that you can only get with a product like mine. And, to make matters worse, there’s a lot of mis-information out there, too, about what other products can do.”

So where do you go from here? “Failure is not an option. The product is gaining momentum. And I’ve got a number of distributors signed up, with more to come.

“The potential is huge, because the performance market is huge. Just take Porsches. How many aftermarket exhausts, specifically for Porsche, are out there? Tires? Wheels? Short shift kits? Turbo kits? Suspension pieces? My goal is to get the enthusiast to think of brake fluid the same way.”

How? “Word of mouth. But I’d also like to be the approved fill for a hyper-handler, something like an Ariel Atom….”

Oh yeah, lunch…. I stare down at my hamburger, as all-American as they come… like brake fluid. Who knew?
 

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What do I know? I’m at a brew-pub, immediately following a morning gathering of Porsche people, who’ve had a group tour of a mini gem of a museum housing much of the priceless automotive offspring of that chili cook-off legend from Texas.

And this guy across from me starts sprouting about brake fluid, how most of the products haven’t been updated in years, how some don’t meet DOT standards, how most of the hype is bogus and how he happens to market the best product out there.

And, best of all, just like the Texan’s iconic blue-with-white-stripe cars that conquered the world in the ‘60s, his product is made right here, in the good old US of A.

What?

I mean, I’ve been reading car magazines for 40-something years. I read the Brit magazines. I scour on-line forums. Have I ever seen an article on brake fluid? No. Do I know what this guy is talking about? No.

On the subject of brakes and brake fluid, you can’t stop this guy. “Of course, for ultimate stopping power, it’s all a matter of brake components, your rotor, caliper, the type of pads you use. But, and here’s the point… for better feel, sustained over hard use, like on a track, or even in the twisties, you need quality brake fluid.”

He goes on: “With a quality brake fluid, you won’t stop faster. Brake fluid doesn’t work that way. But, let me give you an example. Say you’re at Laguna Seca, coming out of the Corkscrew, into Turn 11... after a few hot laps…. Will the pedal be there? Do you trust it? If you have any doubts… any… whatsoever, you’re going to brake sooner, and you’re going to be slower.”

So where’s the cred? Who uses it? He tells me he has an exclusive arrangement with an IndyCar team owned by the son of a former Formula 1 world champion.

Do you advertise? “I wish. At this stage, we concentrate on demonstrating the product, and building word of mouth. But I have a website.”

Don’t we all.

Why’s your product so good? “I’m not a chemist. But I’ve done my homework. About 10 years ago, I started looking for a product to market specifically to the car enthusiast. And I realized that nobody approached brake fluid in a performance context, as a stand-alone product. I approached a global chemical company that has an OE automotive division, and we came up with another product, and I started the business.”

What happened? “Oh, the product was great - a very high boiling point - over 610 degrees F - with low compressibility. We were the supplier to a precursor IndyCar team. But we had legal problems with a distributor/investor, and everything fell apart.

“But I’m back. Thanks to my work with the chemical company, my new product is even better.”

What do other race teams use? “Castrol SRF, AP600. IndyCar, Formula 1, NASCAR too.” Have you approached them? “F1 wants you to make a significant investment, or they won’t talk to you. NASCAR‘s on the to-do list, but I really like road racing.”

And the high performance street driver? The canyon carver? The weekend track junkie? “If they’ve ever put in their own brake fluid, rather than left it to the dealer, it’s usually ATE Super Blue. And that’s a lot of the challenge. They think that’s fine for them. So, why change? Why spend the money for a premium product? What I’m saying is that there’s a whole other level of reliability in performance braking that you can only get with a product like mine. And, to make matters worse, there’s a lot of mis-information out there, too, about what other products can do.”

So where do you go from here? “Failure is not an option. The product is gaining momentum. And I’ve got a number of distributors signed up, with more to come.

“The potential is huge, because the performance market is huge. Just take Porsches. How many aftermarket exhausts, specifically for Porsche, are out there? Tires? Wheels? Short shift kits? Turbo kits? Suspension pieces? My goal is to get the enthusiast to think of brake fluid the same way.”

How? “Word of mouth. But I’d also like to be the approved fill for a hyper-handler, something like an Ariel Atom….”

Oh yeah, lunch…. I stare down at my hamburger, as all-American as they come… like brake fluid. Who knew?
No one approaches brake fluid from a performance perspective? Really?

This guy may, MAY have a good, racing brake fluid. So did Ford for the longest time, available to order from any Ford parts counter. The problem with it was that it absorbed moisture like crazy and you had to change it often. When it got a little wet, it was terrible. I can't remember the name of this Ford stuff, but it wasn't very expensive. If you are series racing and changing fluid out every race or two, this stuff is a good choice...if you can still get it.

This guy is too vague. How is it "better"? Most brake fluid is a trade-off. For Euro street cars that don't get tracked, ATE Type 200 (DOT 4) is the best choice.

Here's my take on DOT 4 brake fluids:

For street cars, even sporty street cars, ATE is fine.

I hate Super Blue. Why? Because it's BLUE. It stains the plastic reservoir on the master cylinder and the insides of calipers, master cylinders, lines...everything. The idea behind it is that you use blue one time and Type 200 (gold? clear?) the next and it's supposed to be an indicator that you've run all of the other color fluid out. It DOESN'T work! It mixes together and you get shades of light blue for 3 changes. If you're lucky, the blue dye finally gets cleaned out.

Porsche has denied warranty on ABS systems solely because Super Blue was found in the system. "Not using Porsche Brake Fluid" It's in this forum somewhere...I think in the Ice Pedal thread.... Think about that. You can use any sort of high performance clear DOT 4 fluid in and you'll be fine but you put colored fluid in and you are cooked if something goes wrong...has nothing to do with the fluid itself...because it's colored, it's easy to determine that it's not Porsche fluid and gives Porsche a reason to deny warranty.

If you're going to the track and driving real hard and/or in real hot weather, Motul 600 is a lot better than ATE. However, if you leave your fluid in all year, Motul will absorb moisture faster AND Motul costs roughly twice as much...the bottles are half-liter compared to full liter ATE cans, so know your priorities. Fresh ATE Type 200 is OK for novice and most intermediate drivers with the right pads.

GT3 brake scoops snap on to the lower control arms of the front suspension and do a nice job of increasing airflow for about $40. Every little bit helps at the track. Take them off for driving in snow.

If you don't have a race sponsor, Castor SRF is a crazy waste of money. Enuff said?

There are two kinds of brake fluid. The kind that boils for your use and the kind that doesn't. It's just a matter of how much are you spending vs how hot are you getting your brakes. If you're pedal isn't going soft, you don't need better fluid.

Synthetic Brake Fluid (DOT 5 & 6). This knowledge is a couple years old, so may be obsolete...

Just because this stuff has a higher number doesn't mean it's better for your car.

...Don't even think about synthetic fluids. Stick with DOT4. Dot 5 or 6 will void the warranty and synthetics have a legitimate, limited value for RESTORED collector cars that sit in museums for years and don't get much use. Aside from that, they are trouble. They don't mix with regular fluids. They cause a spongy feeling in the pedal. The advantage is that it doesn't absorb any moisture ever, so you can leave it in for the life of the car if you do everything right. You have to dismantle and clean like new or replace all the hydraulic components on your brakes if you switch to synthetic. It's a big commitment. There is a Dot 5 synthetic that can be used if you're building a non-ABS race car with all new hydraulic components, including the lines. The feel is not the same, but it resists fade, boiling, moisture absorption and all...but you have to start with all new components.

If it was that good, at least one high-end OEM would use it. None do to my knowledge.

:cheers:
 

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...Don't even think about synthetic fluids. Stick with DOT4. Dot 5 or 6 will void the warranty and synthetics have a legitimate, limited value for RESTORED collector cars that sit in museums for years and don't get much use. Aside from that, they are trouble. They don't mix with regular fluids. They cause a spongy feeling in the pedal. The advantage is that it doesn't absorb any moisture ever, so you can leave it in for the life of the car if you do everything right. You have to dismantle and clean like new or replace all the hydraulic components on your brakes if you switch to synthetic. It's a big commitment. There is a DOT 5 synthetic that can be used if you're building a non-ABS race car with all new hydraulic components, including the lines. The feel is not the same, but it resists fade, boiling, moisture absorption and all...but you have to start with all new components.

If it was that good, at least one high-end OEM would use it. None do to my knowledge.

:cheers:
1. All brake fluid is technically synthetic.
2. There is no such thing as DOT 6 brake fluid for cars.
3. DOT 5 brake fluid is silicone-based, and is indeed incompatible with ABS. All of the brands I've seen are dyed bright blue.
4. DOT 5.1 brake fluid is NOT silicone-based, IS compatible with ABS, and should not void your warranty. DOT 5.1 is hygroscopic just like DOT 3 & DOT 4, and has chemistry similar to DOT 4.

I've been using DOT 5.1 fluid for years in all of our cars, including the Boxster and the Cayman, and it works just fine.
 

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1. All brake fluid is technically synthetic.
2. There is no such thing as DOT 6 brake fluid for cars.
3. DOT 5 brake fluid is silicone-based, and is indeed incompatible with ABS. All of the brands I've seen are dyed bright blue.
4. DOT 5.1 brake fluid is NOT silicone-based, IS compatible with ABS, and should not void your warranty. DOT 5.1 is hygroscopic just like DOT 3 & DOT 4, and has chemistry similar to DOT 4.

I've been using DOT 5.1 fluid for years in all of our cars, including the Boxster and the Cayman, and it works just fine.
There you go....Blue is right. I remembered about half of my post correctly. DOT 5.1 works. I've never used it, don't know if it's good for track use, but it works in the car without a lot of issues on the street.

Blue, what sort of 5.1 do you use? Do you use it for track duty?
 

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There you go....Blue is right. I remembered about half of my post correctly. DOT 5.1 works. I've never used it, don't know if it's good for track use, but it works in the car without a lot of issues on the street.

Blue, what sort of 5.1 do you use? Do you use it for track duty?
I use Wagners DOT5.1, which happens to be available at one of the local auto parts chains. I have used this fluid on the track in the past (on a highly modified 1997 Ford Cobra with AP Racing brakes) and it worked just fine, especially considering the very modest price. Even after a tough track session the fluid looked new when I did test bleeding. We don't track the Porsches, so no experience there.

I'm currently using Wagners DOT5.1 in our Cayman S, and I've noticed no difference at all compared to the stock DOT 4 fluid. I think I paid $20 for the last quart, so it's very reasonably priced, at least compared to SRF or other exotic potions.
 

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Give us a bit of a clue - his product is what?

I think I know of him .... and holy cow, if it is the same guy he is a freaking nut job.
 
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