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Discussion Starter #21
Thanks guys for all the great information.


Ralph at brandywine has already provided me with a very good quote, including discount (mentioned the Club) which for a full set of pads and sensors all around is cheeper than the UK Dealer quoted price for just a single set of rear pads.


Willr, they are cheeper than the Eurocar parts people too, and they didn't list the rear parts at all for Genuin. How did last weekend go?


I am sticking with regular fluid, as it seems quite cheep from the dealer at £110 to change it out, and I doubt I will be using the brakes anything like I did at Bedford in the next 6 months.


Thank you all very much again for the advice and help. Now I need a little help with the pad swap.


Jack
 

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Hi Jack,



Last saturday at Bedford was good, but i wish it had rained a bit earlier, as now I've knackered the pads on my other car!



If you're getting an OPC to change the brake fluid, why not give them something better to put in? Dave's right that probably a different braking technique would help avoid boiling the fluid, but if you're paying for the labour, why not get the job done properly /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/regular_smile.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So for differnt braking technique, would that be.....Go Slower!! /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/wink_smile.gif


I couldn't help myself, honest..........


I will ask about a different fluid being dropped in there. How much do I need, and where is the best place to pick it up? And how much does it cost?


Jack
 

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Different braking technique - read go faster! Actually brake harder, but for a shorter period, having primed the brakes a little beforehand. Most people, myself included, tend to keep the brake pressed for far too long.



A complete flush and replacement could use up to 3 litres of fluid, depending on how careful they are.

I bought SRF from Raceparts (http://www.raceparts-direct.com) and handed it to the garage.
 

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<p class="MsoNormal">It's about £38-39/Litre and that about as much as you need, Maybe allow 2 L to bleed it through which will give you top up.....In retrospect if you’re not tracking regularly then use something like Silkoline as it's not as Hydrophobic as SRF and therefore will last much longer for road. (We use this all the time in rally cars and it gives a nice feel on the pedal to boot.) Cost is about £25/Litre and again if you allow 2Litres and then £25 to do the job your talking £75 all in. Speak to John at EARS 01625 433773 and they do the job for you and probably do rear tyres at a ”modest” price and your pads as well……result !!…….. [/quote]and they’re on the right side of town for you in Macc
 

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Jack


Before you order oem Porsche pads get a price quote from Sunset Porsche(dealer cost + 15%). If you do order oem Porsche pads, specify Textar (the pads are marked) rather than another oem supplier.For the track, use padsthat areless than50% worn.The added pad materialwill significantlyimprove heat dissipation &reduceheat transfer to thefluid.
 

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BTW why are you replacing the pad sensors? Don't you just move the existing sensors to the new pads? That's what I am planning on doing.


I got another set of pads on the way to me from Suncoast Porsche which is a sponsor, Sunset is NOT, although I'm trying to work with them on it (they owe me a call back currently)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Thanks for that info Dan.


Ken, Suncoast have not replied to my email from 3 days ago! Regarding the sensors, it is Porsche recommendation that the sensors are replaced when the pads are replaced. Plus, I would have thought that if your light has come on the sensor must have been damaged and hence need replacing. Isn't that how they work?
 

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Which email did you use for Suncoast? I would recommend emailing Ric Knab directly, I would also recommend calling over emailing. I don't think the sensors have to be damaged to trip the warning light, it was my understanding that if they make contact with the pad it completes a circuit and trips the light. In my case I think I had some brake pad debris in near a sensor and tripping the circuit/light. After wiggling these around yesterday while changing wheels/tires the light went out. I am actually going to pull the front brakepads out when the new ones come in and I'll know more then as I pull items out to look at them. I'll take some photos too.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
More photos for clarification of the sensor removal would be good, plus the best way to push the pistons back in to get new pads in there.


Do you have a direct address for Ric? Or number? I suppose you are getting a super price on your pads. Are you putting OEMs back on?


Jack
 

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I am getting a super price from Suncoast, but I have also ordered a set of Hawk HPS's from Essex which I think were about $100 for the front set. I'll probably try the Hawks first to see how I like them and how much dust they make.


Ric's email is


[email protected]
 

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Be aware that for track use in particular, as the pad material gets thiner there is more opportunity for heat to transfer from the pad to the brake pistons. That's one reason why brakes can go away relatively quickly even though there is still pad material left. If you are tracking the car, my suggestion is replace the pads if they're down to 1/3rd or less material. 1/3rd, with wear sensors etc. might be fine for street use, but under track conditions, and depending on how you use your brakes (e.g. TJ seems to indicate his had 'hard' use problems in other makes of cars), pad wear will probably not be 'linear.' As the pads get thinner I believe the material probably gets hotter and wears faster; that heat is transfered more readily to the pistons, and from the pistons to the brake fluid; and finally, the very high temps brakes rotors can generate on the track can, and will (a) screw with you wear sensors, and can, and will mess with some of your caliper components, like dust seals.



Which brings me to another topic. While looking to get things ready to do a number of HPDE events over the next 8 weeks or so, I went down to my local pro race shop. They have, for some time, made titanium (apparently the metal is a pretty good insulator) I guess you would call them pad or caliper heat 'shields' for the 'big' Porsche (and other calipers) They don't have a 'shield' cut for the Boxster 'S' / Cayman 'S' calipers, but .... it could be done if there were more than one set to be made. I think I'd need to tell them something like a minimum order of 10 sets or so. Their claim is the 'shields' will drop the temperature

reaching the pads by 80° degrees or more. Any interest?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Sounds more like the Titanium parts will act as heat sinks, and help dissipate heat from the pads and brake components.


I had my brake fluid changed last week and the majority of the feel is back int he brake peddle.


However, I still get the feeling that if I pump the brakes slightly before hard braking that the retardation level is gets even better.


Is this the case for all brakes? Is this normal? or is there a possibility that there is still some air in the lines from the fluid change?


Jack
 

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Mlpor, I used TI shims in my Volvo S60R when tracking, They worked great and I would be interested in a set for the CS. Any idea on cost.
 

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The brake pad sensors fit into slots in the pad backing plates. As the pad wears down to its minimum acceptable thickness the rotor grinds into the sensorbreaking the normally closed warning light circuit which illuminates the warning lamp. Thus, when the warning light comes on it means a sensor has been physically damaged & cannot be reused. If you want to resuse sensors, change the pads before the light comes on. The sensors are meant to be replaced, not reused & are easily damaged during removal from the pad. I've found lubricating them w/water helps to avoid breakage.


However, if you track you'll be checking/replacing pads frequently anyway so just toss the sensors. Cut the wires after the juction connector, strip & connect them together to close the circuit, use a crimped wire connector or insulating tape & wire tie them out of the way. Makes pad changes faster, cheaper& easier.


Ditto (sadly) on the crappy oem fluid and/or factory brake bleeding.
 

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Jayman ~ so far there hasn't been much other interest expressed to warrant going to the local speed shop about fabricating a set up. But two things occures to me.



First, serendipitously, I had dinner with some friends connected to the local university SAE team. They think the SAE program may be coming into some sheets of titanium and might be willing as a project to make up a set of shims for testing. If they do, I'll ask to see if one set can be cut, it might be just as easy to do two.



Failing that, I think I'll send the Seine Systems folks an email to ask if they wouldn't think about adding a pattern for the 'S' brake calipers ~ in fact I'm wondering it the caliper might also common to the base Carrerra. Isn't the base 997 Carrerra also running on 28mm x 318mm fronts and 24mm x 299mm rear rotors? Anyway, I'll ask Seine if they would do a set see, e.g. their info at http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade-2.htm



Cheers

Edited by - mlpor on 09/14/2006 06:52:55 AM
 

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Ken, did you every try the Hawk HPS pads and if so how did you like them. I found them to be a good street/track pad, much less brake dust and no squealing. Only draw back I found was when they were soaked pretty good with water or ice slush, the first press of the brake pedal and nothing there. You had to pump the pedal a couple of times and they would be ok.
 
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