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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I gave my CS 2015 ~50k miles for a service. The dealer called me back and said that I need to service front brakes but I decided to do it at a later time.

When I got the car back, A persistent brake warning message was displayed (though it say it's ok to drive) and the red brakes light is on. This message was never displayed before I gave it to the dealer.

I wonder, did the dealer turned that warning on manually? Was it triggered automatically by some special conditions during the service?

It seems too much of a coincident.
 

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I wonder, did the dealer turned that warning on manually? Was it triggered automatically by some special conditions during the service?
Unlikely. They probably screwed-up the pad wear sensor(s) while examining the rotor/pads. Could of just disconnected one as a ploy to get you to pay for the service.
 

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How difficult is it to inspect the front pads myself? Never did it before.

Do I need to uninstall anything? What should I look for?
A quick visual check is very simple. Get a light and look through the wheel spokes. You should see the inside edge of the pad inside the caliper. There is a metal backing plate the caliper pistons press against and then the pad material that wears against the rotor. A new pad will have about 10mm material and the backing plate is about 5 mm. If the pad material is thinner than the backing plade the pads are more than half worn. Keep in mind you are looking at only one edge of the outside pad. The pads sometimes wear unevenly or "taper". If you jack up the corner and remove the wheel you can get a better view. The photo shows a new pad (aftermarket rotor)
 

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If you are aware of our unrestrained Torte laws, especially in California, then one might come to a simple conclusion: I'm the dealer and see that you need brake service. I call you and suggest you get it done. You refuse service but then later get into an accident. You and your lawyer decide to sue me because after all we were negligent because we as Porsche dealers are experts and did not explain to you that you and your car were in danger from possible brake failure. So what does a dealer do? They set the "BRAKE" light to tell you that you should service your brakes. Try suing me now! Check you pads as recommended and replace as needed. Good luck!
 

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If you are aware of our unrestrained Torte laws, especially in California, then one might come to a simple conclusion: I'm the dealer and see that you need brake service. I call you and suggest you get it done. You refuse service but then later get into an accident. You and your lawyer decide to sue me because after all we were negligent because we as Porsche dealers are experts and did not explain to you that you and your car were in danger from possible brake failure. So what does a dealer do? They set the "BRAKE" light to tell you that you should service your brakes. Try suing me now! Check you pads as recommended and replace as needed. Good luck!
Well in that case the dealer could get sued for consumer fraud. Unless something was wrong with the wear indicators, the pads had 25% or more wear left. That's not an accident waiting to happen. By damaging his vehicle in order to send a false warning, they would be just as guilty as those service stations that were caught years ago spraying brake fluid on the tires, then pointing it out in order to sell a brake job. I don't think they'd risk it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
> They set the "BRAKE" light to tell you that you should service your brakes.

What is the mechanism for them to set the brake light? Is that by flipping some software value? Is it influencing the sensor?

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I inspected the front brakes and this is what I saw. Pad picture below, I presume it's very low (?).

The disk surface has smooth wavy pattern (see picture) and the outer leap is protruding about 1mm from the disk surface.

What does it mean?


(click on the images for better resolution)



Red Tire Vehicle Automotive wheel system Wheel




Wheel Rim Alloy wheel Tire Auto part
 

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> They set the "BRAKE" light to tell you that you should service your brakes.

What is the mechanism for them to set the brake light? Is that by flipping some software value? Is it influencing the sensor?

I don't believe there is an option in PIWIS to leave the light on. There is a way to test the warning lights.

I inspected the front brakes and this is what I saw. Pad picture below, I presume it's very low (?).

The disk surface has smooth wavy pattern (see picture) and the outer leap is protruding about 1mm from the disk surface.

What does it mean?
Yes that pad is extremely worn. You should of already seen the warning displayed. How long have you had this car? I wonder if the pad wear sensors were previously disabled. Can be done by disconnecting the connector and adding a jumper. If so, they might of just reconnected them and voila - WARNING appears.

The rotor looks normal. I'm sure they measured the thickness and would of noted if it was below minimum thickness. Ridges are normal. Are you feeling any pulses in the pedal that could indicate warp or braking problems?
 

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> They set the "BRAKE" light to tell you that you should service your brakes.

What is the mechanism for them to set the brake light? Is that by flipping some software value? Is it influencing the sensor?

The wear sensor is a simple device. It is a wire loop that triggers the warning light when the circuit is broken. With new pads the sensors do not touch the rotor and the circuit is complete and there is no warning light. As the pad wears down eventually the sensor begins to wear too. At roughly 2 or 3mm pad thickness remaining the sensor wears down enough that the wire loop is broken. The open circuit triggers the warning light.

You'll need to jack up each corner and remove the wheel to visually inspect the sensors which are on the back of the caliper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
> How long have you had this car?

This is a 2014 model, got it new, it has now ~50k miles.

I always serviced it at dealers and didn't do myself anything brakes related so I doubt if the sensor was bypassed.


 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I plan to find an good independent mechanic with Porsche experience and ask to replace the pads.

Anything I should ask for? Are all pads the same? E.g. original Porshce vs after market?
 

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I inspected the front brakes and this is what I saw. Pad picture below, I presume it's very low (?).

The disk surface has smooth wavy pattern (see picture) and the outer leap is protruding about 1mm from the disk surface.

What does it mean?



(click on the images for better resolution)







View attachment 169354



View attachment 169346

Pads needed. Possibly rotors too. The usual wear spec is 2mm. If you have a 1mm "lip" on the outside, you can expect the same on the inside.
 

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If you're a bit mechanically inclined, you could do the brakes, and rotors, for half of what the dealer will charge you. I'm surprised you managed 50k miles on your fronts!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The dealer wanted $1600, a local shop with good reputation just gave me a quote of $850 for front disks + pads. I think I would go with with local shop, I find it more pleasant to deal with actual people that do the work that with service writers.

Anything I should look or ask for? (assuming the shop is experience with Porsche and has good reputation).
 

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The dealer wanted $1600, a local shop with good reputation just gave me a quote of $850 for front disks + pads. I think I would go with with local shop, I find it more pleasant to deal with actual people that do the work that with service writers.

Anything I should look or ask for? (assuming the shop is experience with Porsche and has good reputation).
Is that including new rotors and new sensors? MAke sure it includes those for that price. My dealer quoted me $1200 for the fronts. Parts, online, are $588.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That's what he wrote me:

"$390 for just pads, $890 pads and rotors. that's 2 hours labor at $120/hr and the rest parts and tax" and then "oops, *$850 with rotors".

I just asked for confirmation that it's all new parts.


 
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