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Vipers have terrible handling. All that power will never be able to hook and handle on the street it track.
Nex:

Where did you hear that??? The early ones had terrible brakes and the chassis weren't stiff enough, but a little fabrication and a set of Wildwoods fixes those problems fairly cheaply. They're not great road cars, at least not the old ones, but they're amazing track machines. They weren't made for stop light drag racing like pony cars. They were made for track driving. The engines are pushed WAY back in the car for very good weight distribution. They are really wide and have massive rubber on the ground. If you've never seen a prepped Viper run really hard, you've missed a lot. They are amazing. Bring extra fuel. You'll need it.


:cheers:
 

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Back in the early 70's I owned an Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV. My buddies were driving Camaros, Vettes, Road Runners, Barracudas, and Mustangs. My car's engine was dwarfed by theirs but their cars felt heavy, which they were, and did not particularly handle or brake very well. The little Alfa could literally run circles around them. Now I drive a base Cayman for the same reason I drove my Alfa. Pure driving satisfaction is not going to be found in HP ratings, 0 - 60 or quarter mile times.It's measured by the seat of your pants. And I really doubt i'd want to be in a twenty-five year old Mustang driving anywhere near their top speed, not so with a Porsche.
 

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I know of 300 mile race once where an 1988 Honda prelude routinely beat a 1988 Mustang 5.0

Due to gas mileage. The honda only had to fill up once and the mustang twice.

So keeping up doesn't always have to do with the top speed, or the quarter mile. Also longevity of the engine is important also.

Just because something costs more or less or does something on paper more time for less money doesn't make it better. Better usually includes aesthetics, comfort, reliability, sound, as well as price and speed.

Is the best employee the one with the cheapest salary and works the most hours? What about the quality of work they produce? their appearance, there sound when they speak, etc..

If you are worried about brag gin rights to the fastest 0-60 etc.. Just go get a 911 turbo engine and put it in a dune buggy chassis.
 

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If you are worried about brag gin rights to the fastest 0-60 etc.. Just go get a 911 turbo engine and put it in a dune buggy chassis.
Arial Atom anyone? :hilarious:

I completely understand the OPs point of view--I frequently get caught up in the stats, power, etc. and consider trading my car for something with more grunt in a straight line. Then my GF tells me to go look at and sit in my car for a little bit before making any rash decision. This usually leads to a drive and all is well :)

I really do wish the Cayman came with some more power--it would be absolutely amazing if it had the 3.8 in it. I've slightly addressed the issue with some upgrades, but it would be nice to have something like 350 stock.
 

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Ummmm No : 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 rated at 662 hp, for the love of all that

... enough for the full factory-warrantied Ford to beat not just any Chevrolet Camaro, but the

Chevy Corvette ZR1 and even the claimed 640 hp from the V-10 in the revived 2013 SRT Viper.
  • 662 hp, 631 ft-lb torque
  • 400 ft-lbs of torque at 1,000 rpm
  • 0-60 in first gear
I love my Porsche but bang for buck that's looking like a monster... that I may have to seriously consider buying instead of my next Cayman S/R.
 

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Ummmm No : 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 rated at 662 hp, for the love of all that



I love my Porsche but bang for buck that's looking like a monster... that I may have to seriously consider buying instead of my next Cayman S/R.
I was thinking the same thing, especially after being eaten alive at Autobahn last year by a couple of prepped Mustangs. The Laguna Seca is a Boss 302, not a GT500. It's quite a bit cheaper than the Shelby. Shelby with no stripes in that nice blue color seems like a very sweet machine. I'd understand if someone bought one of those...so long as I get a ride in it.
 

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I was going to buy the 2013 Shelby this year, thought it looked great and has a lot of horsepower. But later I was reading a car magazine and saw the Boxster and thought, good looking car. I started researching the CS, I thought you know every kid has a Ford Mustang. Just look around as you're driving and you will see a ton of them and they all pretty much look the same.

I purchased my 06 CS about 2 months ago and haven't looked back, I get more attention than most cars and really enjoy driving it. I'm even considering the Turbo, you can never have enough power.
 

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It's not a complete apples to apples. There are lots of intangibles with both cars.

But I can tell you that the interior has just been getting better & better the past few years. There's a reason Ford was the only American car manufacturer that didn't need a bail out.

My F-150 Lariat is my daily driver and I feel like I'm driving a Cadillac not a "work truck". Heated & air conditioned seats, voice controlled stereo/phone/etc., USB, bluetooth, etc. etc..

My original plan was to drop a TPC turbo in my '06 CS. But then considered the cost vs. ROI (how long I was going to keep my car / resale value, etc) and changed my mind.

I decided to just do a few bolt ons and save up for next car. And I was thinking of buying a lightly used Cayman R in a year or 2, since there will probably be people who have to have the latest & greatest dropping their almost new R's for 981 Cayman S's.

Now I'm definitely going to consider something like a Boss 302 or GT500 in a year or 2 when I'm looking to upgrade from my '06 Cayman S. Just b/c FORD keeps making a better product EVERY year, and they're passing everyone up in (interior/electronics) quality, (engine/turbo)performance, etc.
 

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I was going to buy the 2013 Shelby this year, thought it looked great and has a lot of horsepower. But later I was reading a car magazine and saw the Boxster and thought, good looking car. I started researching the CS, I thought you know every kid has a Ford Mustang. Just look around as you're driving and you will see a ton of them and they all pretty much look the same.

I purchased my 06 CS about 2 months ago and haven't looked back, I get more attention than most cars and really enjoy driving it. I'm even considering the Turbo, you can never have enough power.
I had this EXACT same experience. Was shopping around for Mustangs when I decide to see what else was within that price range and noticed the Boxster. Inevitably lead to the Cayman and I've now had my 06 CS for about 1 month. :cheers: Small world huh?
 

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I didn't buy my CS to go fast, however as many others have said, it's about the design that drew my attention. Mine is the only Porsche at work and I get a smile on my face when multiple employees ask if they can borrow my car to take it for a spin or take their date out!

There's something to be said about running my hand over her hips when I'm washing her that I don't believe I would experience if I was washing a Mustang or Camaro. If I want to go faster I'll drive 30 minutes south to TPC. I'm happy enough to take the twisties more aggressively knowing that my CS will keep my *ss in the seat !
 

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I appreciate everyone's responses and all are great points.

Lol, BUT why can't Porsche (now VW ultimately) give us the best car possible. As many have said the chassis could handle more. And I hate the whole 911 argument! They have made variants of the 911 into the ultimate street legal racecar and you pay a premium for it.
Marketing, pure and simple. The Cayman is without a doubt the best production platform that Porsche currently make. It's the smallest, lightests and stiffest. Not to mention the weight is in the optimal place. With the level of development the GT3 has had focused on the Cayman it would be mighty. It would be without a shadow of a doubt more competant than the GT3.

However... The 911 is the Porsche halo product. Pure and simple. It is not strategic for them to make another product eclipse it, even if it was sold at the same price as it'd negatively effect the brand. It's frustrating but it's the reason they don't develop the Cayman as the race platform and fit the road car with the more cooking engines.

Add to this that the Cayman is the worst selling car in their range (sad but true), so it's actually more important to the bean counters to focus on things that do sell (annoyingly the Panamera and Cayenne), those that maintain the brand's image (the 911) and the entry level product (Boxster).

As such the Cayman is a bit of a black sheep of the family. It has massive potential that simply will not be exploited. I still have no idea why they built it. Maybe it was an idea to replace the 911 with a proper 2 seat sports car that the 'purists' just couldn't take? Who knows. But we are where we are and a Cayman is better than no Cayman.
 

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First things first, even as a European, I love muscle cars. No petrolhead can not like the lumpy sound of a big V8, it's designed to make us go wibbly. This is the appeal of them. They're a blunt instrument; a crude, big thing with a dirty great engine stuck up front. All that adds up to a bucket load of fun. Damn right I'd have one if we had your gas prices.

As for the American muscle vs Euro sportscar thing, I think this is a non-argument. They're different car for different reasons. Reasons that are born entirely based on their environments and how they've evolved. Muscle cars suit the US. In the US a race track is a drag strip. People race each other from the lights. A big powerful engine is what you need and finesse is 2nd to that.

In Europe, there are no drag strips (ok maybe 1 in the UK that I can think of), likewise we don't have straight roads. In this environment a dirty great engine in a big car is counter productive. Which is why our sports cars tend to be light and nimble, usually with higher reving but smaller engines. Focus is mainly on how the car handles and reacts. A muscle car on a UK B road would be possibly the worst thing you could use. Likewise a European sports car on a drag strip is equally the wrong tool for the job.

As I say, comparing apples with oranges.
 

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First things first, even as a European, I love muscle cars. No petrolhead can not like the lumpy sound of a big V8, it's designed to make us go wibbly. This is the appeal of them. They're a blunt instrument; a crude, big thing with a dirty great engine stuck up front. All that adds up to a bucket load of fun. Damn right I'd have one if we had your gas prices.

As for the American muscle vs Euro sportscar thing, I think this is a non-argument. They're different car for different reasons. Reasons that are born entirely based on their environments and how they've evolved. Muscle cars suit the US. In the US a race track is a drag strip. People race each other from the lights. A big powerful engine is what you need and finesse is 2nd to that.

In Europe, there are no drag strips (ok maybe 1 in the UK that I can think of), likewise we don't have straight roads. In this environment a dirty great engine in a big car is counter productive. Which is why our sports cars tend to be light and nimble, usually with higher reving but smaller engines. Focus is mainly on how the car handles and reacts. A muscle car on a UK B road would be possibly the worst thing you could use. Likewise a European sports car on a drag strip is equally the wrong tool for the job.

As I say, comparing apples with oranges.
I think those statements are dated.

Yes that applies to the OLD muscle cars vs. the OLD Porsche's of yesteryear.

However, the new breed of American muscle has been refined for the track too. All of them with their optional track packs are still comparably "cheap" to a 911 + track pack (GT3).

Corvette Z06 + Z07 track pack
Mustang GT500 + SVT trackpack
Camaro ZL1 + track pack
Boss 302 + Laguna Seca edition (or regular Boss 302)

All of them now actually have great track times too.

The best example is the 2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - 7:41 @ Nurhurbring

I'm thinking with all of the specs on paper that the new GT500 SHOULD be able to beat the Camaro ZL1's time: 2013 Shelby GT500 caught testing at the Nürburgring

Ford has refined the GT500 THREE times in 4 years and added the Boss 302, they're serious about performance!

Porsche's engineers were first to implement a lot of race technologies in to production street cars, BUT Ford, Chevy, Nissan are coming to the game now the past few years.

American muscle cars have been making larger changes (large bumps in horsepower) and at a faster pace (adding new technologies like e-magnetic shocks, traction/launch control) so they're not "dumb" blunt instruments anymore.

And they're all getting similar MPG as Porsches so the "gas guzzler" does not really apply?
300+hp range = Cayman S vs Mustang V6 both 20/27 MPG range
400+hp range = 911S vs Mustang GT/Boss 302 both 18/25 MPG range

Look at how much Corvettes have changed... changing frame & moving the transmission to the rear balanced the car in the 6th generation, supposedly the next (7th) generation car is going to be more "Ferrari/Lambo like, with smaller displacement & higher reving.

All of that said, I still prefer 2 things about Porsche (specifically Cayman)
1. Styling - the Cayman is IMO the best looking car for under $150k, over $150k I can find some competition
2. Exclusitivity - Mustangs/Camaros & Corvettes are a dime/dozen comparitively in sales volume, which translates to how many you see on the street.

However, I think Porsche will need a mid-engine car to be its flagship in a few years. You can't make something balanced that is inherently not (911). Unless they actually move the engine, or more likley make the gas engine smaller and add electric motors up front.

I think the 918 Spyder (& derivatives) from top & Cayman/Boxster from bottom, may eventually squeeze the 911 out the middle. At least for intelligent buyers!!

In hindsight what they really should have done was to JUST call the Cayman a 911.... name it Carrera 2 (for 2 seater), and the old 911, Carrera 4 (for 4 seater)!! There would have been none of this preserving the dinosaur for namesake.

Then they could have put a 3.8L / GT3 engine in the Cayman with out the glass ceiling and sold 380hp-450hp versions of them like hotcakes. IMO

Needed Cayman line up:
Cayman - 270hp
Cayman S 330hp
Cayman GT3 400+hp (or "GTS" or "R" - lighter more track oriented version)
 

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However, I think Porsche will need a mid-engine car to be its flagship in a few years. You can't make something balanced that is inherently not (911). Unless they actually move the engine, or more likley make the gas engine smaller and add electric motors up front.

I think the 918 Spyder (& derivatives) from top & Cayman/Boxster from bottom, may eventually squeeze the 911 out the middle. At least for intelligent buyers!!
The 918 is essentially the replacement for the Carrera GT. It's Porsches Enzo/F50/F40/288GTO. It replaced the 959 in the scheme of things.

The problem we have is that we're a minority. The fact that the halo product is now a overly luxurious GT car now (FFS you can have a heated steering wheel!) and not a sports car says all you need to know about the 911 demographic. They want the brand, they want the heritage, they like to see them win races. But what they want on the roads is comfort, practicality and luxuries/toys (GT models aside from this). They really don't want a pokey little sports car.

They've also convinced themselves that the rear engine is an important part of it's character. This is despite Porsche themselves spending the last 50 years trying to engineer around the inherent flaws in the layout. They insist that the 911 be the 'best' Porsche and they buy them because of this. As long as they buy them, Porsche will continue to make them.

Sadly no one buys the Cayman but a small enlightened group of enthusiasts. They expect us to 'upgrade' to a Carrera when we move on. What they don't understand is that we don't want to do that. Or rather they might but they realise that there's not enough of us that it's economically viable for them to create that model. If the Caymans were flying out of the showrooms like the Panamera is, damn right we'd have had a Cayman GTS by now. At the very least.

As it is, you say you have a Porsche Cayman to someone and it's most likely they'll think you have an off roader. Say you have an 911 and EVERYONE knows what you have. This is the sad reality of the situation.

In hindsight what they really should have done was to JUST call the Cayman a 911.... name it Carrera 2 (for 2 seater), and the old 911, Carrera 4 (for 4 seater)!! There would have been none of this preserving the dinosaur for namesake.

Then they could have put a 3.8L / GT3 engine in the Cayman with out the glass ceiling and sold 380hp-450hp versions of them like hotcakes. IMO

Needed Cayman line up:
Cayman - 270hp
Cayman S 330hp
Cayman GT3 400+hp (or "GTS" or "R" - lighter more track oriented version)
Oh if I was in charge of Porsche I'd be far more brutal than that.

Panamera - gone
Cayenne - gone
911 - Kept to sell to the purists, but only as a Carrera 2 GTS as it's the best all round current 911, and the Turbo, for the nutters. It'd be the GT car in the line up.
Boxster - Replaces 911 convertible. Basically because it was designed to be a convertible in the first place, rather than chopping the roof off a 911... and it look 8 million times better than a 911 convertible.
Cayman - would be the sports car platform and the one raced, with a hardcore RS version, I'd want it down to 1000kgs. Which is the problem with all cars these days, Porsche included. The Nissan GT might defy physics, but it's still nigh on 2 ton of car. Which is a ridiculous amount of weight for anything that seriously wants to be considered a track car.

Oh and with that lineup I'd be bankrupt within 6 months ;)
 

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The 918 is essentially the replacement for the Carrera GT. It's Porsches Enzo/F50/F40/288GTO. It replaced the 959 in the scheme of things.

The problem we have is that we're a minority. The fact that the halo product is now a overly luxurious GT car now (FFS you can have a heated steering wheel!) and not a sports car says all you need to know about the 911 demographic. They want the brand, they want the heritage, they like to see them win races. But what they want on the roads is comfort, practicality and luxuries/toys (GT models aside from this). They really don't want a pokey little sports car.

They've also convinced themselves that the rear engine is an important part of it's character. This is despite Porsche themselves spending the last 50 years trying to engineer around the inherent flaws in the layout. They insist that the 911 be the 'best' Porsche and they buy them because of this. As long as they buy them, Porsche will continue to make them.

Sadly no one buys the Cayman but a small enlightened group of enthusiasts. They expect us to 'upgrade' to a Carrera when we move on. What they don't understand is that we don't want to do that. Or rather they might but they realise that there's not enough of us that it's economically viable for them to create that model. If the Caymans were flying out of the showrooms like the Panamera is, damn right we'd have had a Cayman GTS by now. At the very least.

As it is, you say you have a Porsche Cayman to someone and it's most likely they'll think you have an off roader. Say you have an 911 and EVERYONE knows what you have. This is the sad reality of the situation.



Oh if I was in charge of Porsche I'd be far more brutal than that.

Panamera - gone
Cayenne - gone
911 - Kept to sell to the purists, but only as a Carrera 2 GTS as it's the best all round current 911, and the Turbo, for the nutters. It'd be the GT car in the line up.
Boxster - Replaces 911 convertible. Basically because it was designed to be a convertible in the first place, rather than chopping the roof off a 911... and it look 8 million times better than a 911 convertible.
Cayman - would be the sports car platform and the one raced, with a hardcore RS version, I'd want it down to 1000kgs. Which is the problem with all cars these days, Porsche included. The Nissan GT might defy physics, but it's still nigh on 2 ton of car. Which is a ridiculous amount of weight for anything that seriously wants to be considered a track car.

Oh and with that lineup I'd be bankrupt within 6 months ;)
Panamera & Cayenne are their new cash cows, which means the 911 is no longer their bread & butter like it used to be.

918 Spyder is their new limited edition super car, however, there have been rumors of a "cheaper" production car based on it. Possibly to go in the slot of the GT2 RS, GT3 RS or GT3 RSR, etc. Something above the 911 Turbo S and below the supercar limited edition.

I believe Cayman is going to gradually be let loose from its reins. As Porsche attempts to increase its sales numbers across the board they're going to need to add more attractive models to the 981 line up.

They did not attempt to cap their Cayenne or Panamera's performance to under a base 911, so why should they moving forward with Boxsters & Caymans. They get more expensive (more profitable) GTS & Turbo editions that are FAST, so why limit the 981 line ups performance AND profitability. It would be dumb to do so, just so you can say the slowest 911 is still faster than the fastest 981.

I know one argument is that those are SUV's and Sedans vs. "sports cars".

However, the 911 has moved from a Sports Car to a Luxury GT.... unless you get a GT3. The 981 buyers are a different market that don't need a back seat and should not really cannibalize much of the 911 sales by having faster version of them.
 

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However, the 911 has moved from a Sports Car to a Luxury GT.... unless you get a GT3. The 981 buyers are a different market that don't need a back seat and should not really cannibalize much of the 911 sales by having faster version of them.
That's the rub really. It really wouldn't cost them much to turn out something special. the Boxster Spyder proved that (the CR was just a post-BS parts bin raid).

They have the parts, they have the know-how. They just don't have the inclination.
 

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That's the rub really. It really wouldn't cost them much to turn out something special. the Boxster Spyder proved that (the CR was just a post-BS parts bin raid).

They have the parts, they have the know-how. They just don't have the inclination.
This.

The Cayman could be the best mid-engined sports car. Not to compete with a 911 which is a GT car. Of course the general public would have to be educated lol. Those who want a sports car could take the Cayman/Boxter/918 platforms Those who want the status and luxury ride could take the 911/Panamera. I refuse to discuss the soccer mom set of wheels. Even if it is Porsche's big seller.

The Cayman could also be a best seller. Why not terrorize Ford, Chevy, Audi, BMW, Lotus, etc. Isn't that what Porsche engineers are supposed to do?

On a side note, I rode the bumper of a Shelby Cobra with dealer tags from 40-100 mph before I let up on the pedal. Did he give everything he had? Dunno. But I ate his arse for whatever reason on the freeway on-ramp.
 
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