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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

Hello friends,

I would like to get some opinions on the new Cayman GT4. We’ve all owned 911’s for years and this is the very first time I’ve seen the factory engineer a “sports car” (GT4) other than the 911, which is engineered on paper to be faster than the base 911 Carrera at the same price point.

Sure we have the Cayenne/Panamera Turbo, which is faster than the base Carrera, but they are no threat for the 911 in terms of track racing or FIA endurance racing, nor is their price tag in the same arena.

However, the Cayman is. I’ve notice the new GT4 is engineered lighter (by 100 lbs.), faster 0-60 (by .4 sec), more hp (35 more), faster top speed, more standard (track focused) features like PTV, optimized McPherson sport suspension, fixed rear wing with a gurney flap and with a 3.8 Lt normally aspirated mid-engine design at the same price as the 911 base Carrera ?

This is the very first time I've seen the factory intentionally do this in normal production models.

Any thoughts why? Is Porsche slowly grooming the next mid-engine endurance GT racecar for the FIA and Tudor? If so, how would this impact the iconic 911 in endurance races?

I find this to be very thought provoking. I would like to gage some thoughts on this. Also, If you had $84K, which one of these would you guys own? And why? Thanks.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

The last question is easy as I prefer mid-engine, don't want back seats, and prefer the looks of the Cayman. As for the pricing, what I've read is that the GT4 is designed so much for track use that as a daily driver it may not be comfortable at all (the reviews will have to confirm this). So Porsche believes that the majority of customers between the GT4 and base 911 to be distinct. Also, the revision of the 991 should happen this year and probably put the base 911 closer to the GT4 in performance.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Interesting splashdown on the forum:



Why so many posts? Jbz. When I created this post there was maybe a half dozen. Now there's 4 times that. What dafuq dude?

Re:Why? In today's market subtle doesn't work. They needed something provocative to satiate years of unrequited Cayman performance want. Success.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

Even the regular Cayman Ss were pretty much on par with the base Carreras.

Cheaper + faster ... but it's a lower model with different layout. Rear-engine is kinda sexy in its own way. So personally, I don't think this will stop people from buying the base model 911. Someone who's looking to drive a "nice car" to work everyday, has a wife and kid to take out on weekends, and doesn't care about track driving wouldn't really look into the GT4.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

Base Carrera is a bigger, more luxurious sports car. That's why.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Interesting, the GT4 has the Sport Chrono Package as standard with dynamic engine mounts which automatically set the stiffness or softness according to driving style. That should provide a comfortable ride as a daily driver. However, I agree. The GT4 looks more aggressive and track ready.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Cayman GT4 faster than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

Yes, I agree the 911 definitely looks bigger. However, the wheel base on the Cayman is longer and find that interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Yeah, sorry. I thought I exceeded the amount of characters needed to post a thread because I was getting a message, so I kept shortening my post and clicking submit thread. I had no idea it posted every time. Now, I cannot see how to delete all of the other threads. I emailed the admin, hopefully he will help. Thanks.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

lol, it's some new kind of record:

 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Something to keep in mind is that the 991.2 will be out soon, and likely place the base Carrera back just above the gt4
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

There's so many different ways you can configure a Porsche, I don't think a base Carrera competes head to head with the GT4. The GT4 is a track focused car that likely won't see a ton of street only use. The base Carrera is a luxury sports car. If you wanted a harder edged Carrera there are certainly plenty of options to take your 911 in that direction but I don't think someone who's always wanted a Carrera looks at the track focused GT4 and thinks it would be a better option. I also don't think if you are looking for a king of the hill track toy you'd be looking at a base Carrera but you might be looking at the GT4 in addition to the GT3.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

However, the Cayman is. I’ve notice the new GT4 is engineered lighter (by 100 lbs.), faster 0-60 (by .4 sec), more hp (35 more), faster top speed, more standard (track focused) features like PTV, optimized McPherson sport suspension, fixed rear wing with a gurney flap and with a 3.8 Lt normally aspirated mid-engine design at the same price as the 911 base Carrera ?
Yeah....read this thread....lol

http://www.planet-9.com/981-chat/105110-base-991-people-got-screwed-4.html
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Sure we have the Cayenne/Panamera Turbo, which is faster than the base Carrera, but they are no threat for the 911 in terms of track racing or FIA endurance racing, nor is their price tag in the same arena. ... However, the Cayman is.
:confused: One of the purposes of the vehicle is to allow Customer teams to race in GT4 far cheaper a 911. I don't understand what you mean. Once they produce the RSR version, how would it ever be faster than a 991RSR? Not going to happen anymore than a GTE car will be faster than LMP1.

I’ve notice the new GT4 is engineered lighter (by 100 lbs.), faster 0-60 (by .4 sec), more hp (35 more), faster top speed, more standard (track focused) features like PTV, optimized McPherson sport suspension, fixed rear wing with a gurney flap and with a 3.8 Lt normally aspirated mid-engine design at the same price as the 911 base Carrera ? This is the very first time I've seen the factory intentionally do this in normal production models.
Nope, I believe the 944 Turbo S was faster than the 911 Carrera of the same MY.

Any thoughts why?
Back in the Fall, Porsche said they wanted to allow teams to buy cheap (a relative term) race cars for GT4 rather than spending $1M (or whatever) to race in GT3.

Is Porsche slowly grooming the next mid-engine endurance GT racecar for the FIA and Tudor?
I believe so. Start small and cheap. Get the teams used to racing again as its not like the old days.

If so, how would this impact the iconic 911 in endurance races?
IMO 911RSR goes away. 960/988/FeFi takes over, mid-engineed supercar priced above the TTS but far below the 918.

If you had $84K, which one of these would you guys own? And why? Thanks.
Totally dependent upon the needs of the owner. Porsche has sent multiple signals that that the GT4 is even less suitable for street use than the GT3 (there is a chart on the net somewhere showing that), maybe because of the lack of the axle lift. Not sure why.

Two totally different vehicles meant for different target audiences. I doubt anyone would cross shop a GT4 and base 991. Entirely different cars designed for entirely different reasons.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Why?

Mid engine is more conducive to longer wheelbase design than is rear engine. Because of the different layouts, wheelbase is not a valid indicator of size when comparing the two.
 

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"The GT4 is a track focused car that likely won't see a ton of street only use."

Im not so sure. My guess is you'll see more GT4s used for street than for track. I'm 70, retired, and want the harder edged GT4 for street use. The CS is a bit soft for my taste in a daily driver. I'll likely track it occasionally, but that's not the reason I would buy it. The GT4 would my daily driver.
 

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"The GT4 is a track focused car that likely won't see a ton of street only use."

Im not so sure. My guess is you'll see more GT4s used for street than for track. I'm 70, retired, and want the harder edged GT4 for street use. The CS is a bit soft for my taste in a daily driver. I'll likely track it occasionally, but that's not the reason I would buy it. The GT4 would my daily driver.
There is a reason that most US GT3s are sold in TX, CA, and FL, and IMO that is the weather. The PCNA auctioned cars averaged about $150K MSRP. Pushing that down by 33% into the $95K to $100K range means a LOT more potential buyers. It would be interesting to see a map of the states showing where the potential GT4 buyers are coming from but my prediction is that those buying from the snow belt states might buy thinking its a suitable DD.

Sure. This morning there was nothing but sheets of ice. You aren't even supposed to have those OEM tires stored, never mind driven, below 32 degrees. Plus they start at 7/32 thread. Of course you can buy another set of wheels and buy some snow tires.

My prediction is that some people in the snow belt might think the are getting a GTS+ vice a Weissach car and not understand exactly what they are getting. Otherwise, especially after this and last winter, those cars will sit in locked garages for many, many months. Just look at how many 981 owners on this forum from the snow belt keep their cars in storage, and how many admit to them being true DD. Hmm, maybe a poll is needed. And then we will see a bunch of CPO cars available for those not in on the first lists. This is just my guess but I think its a pretty good guess.
 

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Re: Cayman GT4 faster & lighter than the 911 base Carrera for the same price tag? Wh

Totally dependent upon the needs of the owner. Porsche has sent multiple signals that that the GT4 is even less suitable for street use than the GT3 (there is a chart on the net somewhere showing that), maybe because of the lack of the axle lift. Not sure why.

Two totally different vehicles meant for different target audiences. I doubt anyone would cross shop a GT4 and base 991. Entirely different cars designed for entirely different reasons.
Now, you're onto something. I think the better question is: GT4 vs GT3. If the GT3 didn't have center-locks, I would have chosen already. If the GT4 had the axle lift, same.

Nice to have choices in this life.

John
 
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