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Hi guys, just raced an E46 M3 with my stock 2007 Cayman S. He's a friend, his cars have headers with full supersprint exhaust, intake and software. We raced from 2nd gear and the race was closer than I thought. It was head to head depending on who changed the gears faster. All 7 races were with the same results. I was surprise that with the mods he have on the car didn't pull ahead of me. Pretty happy with the baby ! :banana:
 

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Take him out to the track and race him some more. Might even get him to trade up to a Cayman S :hilarious:
 

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Take him out to the track and race him some more. Might even get him to trade up to a Cayman S :hilarious:
Exactly! I have friends and know people with MUCH faster cars and I like to tell them that my car shines in EVERY aspect of vehicle dynamics versus just one or two. Come with me to the next track day and we'll see who wins then! ;)
 

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Exactly! I have friends and know people with MUCH faster cars and I like to tell them that my car shines in EVERY aspect of vehicle dynamics versus just one or two. Come with me to the next track day and we'll see who wins then! ;)
I agree, I started racing with BMWs from time to time at the Houston BMW CCA AutoX. Some have traded up for the Cayman now.
 

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Take him to the track and watch his brake fluid boil like mad, his pads wear down in a day and his rotors groove like no tomorrow (real things) - NOTHING beats a Porsche for brakes!
 

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If you properly duct the E46 M3 rotors and run race pads/fluid you'll be ok but you will go through rotors at an astonishing rate. The good thing when I had my M3 is the dealership kept replacing them for free as a part of their maintenance plan!
 

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Whenever I see an M3 on the street I can't help think that BMW engineers were in two minds.
 

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Having owned a stock E46 and now owning an 09CS I gotta say the M3 engine felt "faster" and more responsive to me. While BMW may not know much about brakes they sure know how to make a fun Inline-6!
 

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Having owned a stock E46 and now owning an 09CS I gotta say the M3 engine felt "faster" and more responsive to me. While BMW may not know much about brakes they sure know how to make a fun Inline-6!
Not possible. I raced a E46 M3 SMG a few days back and gave him a good distance in a short race even he was suprised.
 

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Like another thread I just addressed, this is just a gentle reminder that discussion of street racing/exhibitions of speed are against forum rules, and this thread is slowly starting to push that envelope.

Comparisons between cars are fine, but discussions of comparing speed and acceleration on the street are not allowed here.
 

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BMW makes great engines. I would love to have the new M3's V8 in my Cayman. There have been numerous discussions on this. In straight line acceleration they are very close, the 09+ cars seem to have an advantage, equally setup for the track the CS is faster than the E46.
 

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CS Gen1 and E46 M3 have approx. same # per HP @ 10.25. The E46 feels a little more ponderous due to extra 300#, IMO. Handling wise, stock E46 has way too much roll and does not compare to stock CS. +1 on new M3 V8, sounds like a race car even going slow.
 

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Not possible. I raced a E46 M3 SMG a few days back and gave him a good distance in a short race even he was suprised.
it is completely possible for a car to feel faster and more responsive while actually being slower. I think the m3 felt that way due to a combo of high redline and very responsive throttle even with sport mode off. Maybe if I had sports chrono I wouldn't be saying that?
 

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it is completely possible for a car to feel faster and more responsive while actually being slower. I think the m3 felt that way due to a combo of high redline and very responsive throttle even with sport mode off. Maybe if I had sports chrono I wouldn't be saying that?
You are correct on that. BMW sport mode (on E46 and E90 M3s) feels much more acutely reponsive to throttle inputs than sports chrono, which my CS does have. Slightly off topic, but I would go so far as to say that Sport Chrono is a pretty big disappointment compared to BMW Sport Mode.
 

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Having owned a stock E46 and now owning an 09CS I gotta say the M3 engine felt "faster" and more responsive to me. While BMW may not know much about brakes they sure know how to make a fun Inline-6!
Not possible. I raced a E46 M3 SMG a few days back and gave him a good distance in a short race even he was suprised.
it is completely possible for a car to feel faster and more responsive while actually being slower. I think the m3 felt that way due to a combo of high redline and very responsive throttle even with sport mode off. Maybe if I had sports chrono I wouldn't be saying that?
Exactly.
Two E46M3's later and lots of time in the CSv2 here and it's exactly that....feel.
The M3 has on avg. the same dyno tested rwhp and 10 less rwtq, with 300-400 lb. more weight than a CSv2 depending on options.
What makes it feel that way are a combo of four things.
Gearing.
Throttle mapping.
Vanos change rate vs. Variocam change rate.
Hard vs. soft rev limiter.
The M3 jumps into and above 2500rpm because of the shorter 1-2 gearing and the abrupt initial throttle mapping and Vanos transition.
The soft limiter on the CS makes it feel, well, softer on top. The M3 has the hard limiter only.
The latter three can be programmed into the CS with software (non SC). But be careful what you wish for.
Honestly I thought the M3 was a little too abrupt when trying to modulate when you needed to ie. at the tire/suspension limit.
My impression of the BMW sport button would be similar to SC + Sprintbooster together.
Impressive to your friends/butt-o-meter. Not so much when you're trying to be smooth and fast.
Most guys preferred sport off at the track with the M3.
The CSv2 is more linear, which is a good thing at the threshold of adhesion.
I do feel the CS would be improved with the 7% shorter gearing of the 4.16 gears on the Tip vs. stock 3.88's. (6 sp.)
The weight/balance/modulation are couple of the reasons both M3's are gone and on the list for a new CS.
fwiw
 

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Thanks for that excellent explanation. I did not consider the adverse effect of the abruptness of Sport Mode at high end on the track. I just liked the immediate reponse for crowded interstate maneuvers. You've given me a better appreciation of Sport Chronos. I've read that some race cars have multiple throttle maps for different purposes.
 

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Thanks.
True about the maps, and the new Sprintbooster has multiple ones too.
But imho SC by itself is good and just reprogram your inputs if you like it more abrupt on the road.
The other problem with BMW Sport or SC+Sprintbooster besides abruptness,
was that you maxed the throttle at about 75-80% pedal travel.
It's a little annoying to think you have some left at 3/4 throttle and you've used it all up.
 

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More complex than I thought. Am I correct to skip Sprint Booster altogether if I intend to flash with Softronic or FVD?
 
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