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He was testing the cars in the UK. Imports are considerably higher there than here. I looked at a $38000 JCW MINI, similar car was over $50,000 when converted from GBPs.

His points were interesting. But in the $25,000 range, I think Imwould rather have an older Cayman than a Scion. Also, he makes it very clear that the Cayman grips the road very precisely and just never lets go, whereas the Scion wallows a bit and slides around corners. He may think that is fun, but it will take precision grip over that any day! Lastly, you drive up to a restaurant, or busy spot... Do you want to get out of a Porsche or a Toyota/Scion?
 

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I think the message Chris is trying to convey is that the 86 has the right amount of useable performance to make it fun on the street.

Personally I think us car guys (me included) have been so focused on performance figures for so long that we have lost sight of why we really buy these cars. I will use myself as an example so I don't offend anyone. :) I owned two 928's , the second of which was a pristine example cosmetically and mechanically. I liked the idea of the 928 due to the power, balanced weight distribution and performance figures. But in reality the car was an absolute bore to drive unless you were accelerating hard, driving at warp speed. The steering and chassis were to vague to really give the feedback through a corner which didn't help. The problem was that the only place I could do this legally and safely was either in Germany or on a track. Tracking a concours car to me didn't make any sense due to the increased wear/tear and I don't have the funds to ship it to Germany every year to get the full experience. So eventually I found myself spending more time looking at it and detailing it instead of driving it.

I never thought about buying a Boxster until I saw a Spyder at a concours (figures!) and was intrigued by its looks and the sporty options. I researched it and again I was enticed by the performance numbers but I was also enticed by the reviews promising increased driving involvement. The Spyder hasn't failed to deliver on this aspect and I definitely enjoy driving it more than any previous car I've owned. BUT the capabilities of the car are absolutely astounding and I've never come close to the hairy edge which really gets the adrenaline pumping. Again, I just can't do this legally or safely on the streets and I don't want to track the car for several reasons.

So to me a car like the 86 or BRZ sounds attractive because it offers some of the same traits as my Spyder and yet the performance is low enough to let me hit that hairy edge where the permagrin happens. My issue with the 86 and BRZ is the build quality, it is without a doubt cheaply built and it's not just the interior. The entire car seems like a throwaway to me. Maybe I just need to buy an old 911 to add to the stable.
 

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Good points... I really love My Cayman S but day to day, my most *fun* car is a souped up short wheel base (twitchy) 912 with barely 100 hp ;-) Fun starts at 30 mph !
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks K-Man S for embedding the vid, i posted in a bit of a rush.

Chris Harris does mention mechanical grip is better in the Cayman. I think the GT86 is designed specifically to have a bit of yaw and increase the fun factor, especially with the low power output. This does not mean that with a few relatively inexpensive mods it cannot be altered for the track.

Also, i think the point Chris Harris was making is that the GT86 was designed for a purpose and its implementation was spot on.

There is always the argument of used vs new. I cannot get myself to buy a used Porsche, unless it is lightly used. To each his own i guess. And, i dont think i will ever trade my Spyder for the GT86. The GT86 its more of a second car to play around with, more of a toy. Will be cheaper to mod\fix\thrash around.

The Remus exhaust sounds wicked on the Cayman though.
 

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I should add that I would never trade my Spyder for the 86, come to think of it I doubt I would trade it for anything else currently available at a reasonable (Sub $100K) price.
 

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I think the message Chris is trying to convey is that the 86 has the right amount of useable performance to make it fun on the street.

Personally I think us car guys (me included) have been so focused on performance figures for so long that we have lost sight of why we really buy these cars. I will use myself as an example so I don't offend anyone. :) I owned two 928's , the second of which was a pristine example cosmetically and mechanically. I liked the idea of the 928 due to the power, balanced weight distribution and performance figures. But in reality the car was an absolute bore to drive unless you were accelerating hard, driving at warp speed. The steering and chassis were to vague to really give the feedback through a corner which didn't help. The problem was that the only place I could do this legally and safely was either in Germany or on a track. Tracking a concours car to me didn't make any sense due to the increased wear/tear and I don't have the funds to ship it to Germany every year to get the full experience. So eventually I found myself spending more time looking at it and detailing it instead of driving it.

I never thought about buying a Boxster until I saw a Spyder at a concours (figures!) and was intrigued by its looks and the sporty options. I researched it and again I was enticed by the performance numbers but I was also enticed by the reviews promising increased driving involvement. The Spyder hasn't failed to deliver on this aspect and I definitely enjoy driving it more than any previous car I've owned. BUT the capabilities of the car are absolutely astounding and I've never come close to the hairy edge which really gets the adrenaline pumping. Again, I just can't do this legally or safely on the streets and I don't want to track the car for several reasons.

So to me a car like the 86 or BRZ sounds attractive because it offers some of the same traits as my Spyder and yet the performance is low enough to let me hit that hairy edge where the permagrin happens. My issue with the 86 and BRZ is the build quality, it is without a doubt cheaply built and it's not just the interior. The entire car seems like a throwaway to me. Maybe I just need to buy an old 911 to add to the stable.
This might sounds crazy :crazy: , but I really enjoy driving my Honda Civic Hybrid for similar reasons. It is great fun trying to precisely preserve momentum...and it has KERS, for goodness sake. :) Just like an F1 car. Sort of.
 

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It's like when I had an FD RX-7, and drove a Miata back to back after a track day.

The RX-7 was hands-down more capable, but the Miata was tossable and a hoot to drive.

Both have their place.

ed
 

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I think I see what Harris is getting at here, and I just so happen to be lucky enough to own my own example of what he is describing - a 1990 944S2.

Interestingly, the performance, weight, power, etc., etc., etc. specs on the S2 are nearly identical to the GT86. It's nowhere near the car my CS is, but I can drive the p*%$ out of it over public roads and not be doing anything too crazy. The handling is outstanding and it's just plain fun to drive!

And oh, while I'm sure the maintenance on the 86 would never come near the what it takes on the S2, it still only cost me $5500 and it's really in pretty darned great shape for a 22-year old car...
 
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