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COBB tuning vs. Plenum/TB - choose one

  • COBB tuning

    Votes: 22 84.6%
  • Plenum?TB

    Votes: 4 15.4%

  • Total voters
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you had to choose one mod - which one gives the most bang for the ~1,300 bucks?
Please vote, explain your rationale & discuss....
Thanks!
 

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I should have an empirical result for this discussion by Thursday evening. Taking my already COBB tuned car to the dyno after adding an IPD plenum. I'll get a baseline and then if needed, have it retuned.

But just based upon my first hand experience of adding the COBB tune on top of headers/exhaust... it was a very noticeable difference adding the tune. Then adding the IPD plenum after all that... not really much difference noted.
 

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I have heard that you can get air flow rate error codes without a tune with the IPD and larger TB, getting them both together is a good idea.

Will be interesting how much more the IPD & TB add.
 

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I already have the Plenum and Throttle Body on my 14 Cayman S. COBB to me is next step, followed by aFe Dry Pro filters.
@arter, not a single error code in 6+ months and several thousand miles, even with long trip from Florida to PCA 60th in Indiana.
 

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i let you know next week.

Screen Shot 2015-10-29 at 9.02.16 AM.jpg

this is waiting for me. New Exhaust goes on too.

so Cobb tune, IPD Plenum + TB and exhaust.

how do i vote?

IPD delivered the goods to my shop this week. one for me, one for the shop's 996 Turbo.

we will dyno b4 and after.
have a good show Mitch
cheers
 

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Awesome rjpeaks. Get it done and def Cobb should release the map so I can flash it on mine. Already have IPD/larger intake, headers, and exhaust.
 

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To the OP, I didn't install IPD by itself, but did get gains with all the other mods at once. There was notable power with everything combine making the 2.7 about .5 sec faster to 60. I think the Cobb tune is the best bet if you are looking for best value...because all the mods cost me 6k for gains that are probably similar to the tune alone (not sure didn't dyno). I think the real value in intake/exhaust mods will come from an aggressive stage 2 tune...till then, I don't think it's worth the money. IMO, get the Cobb AP first and later get other mods after an ECU mapping is released for them.

my best guess..

2.7 IPD, larger throttle body, 200 high flow cats, performance exhaust - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Cobb Stage 1 Tune - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Both mods - 25-35% gain, 45-75 hp, 1 sec faster to 60 (about as fast as stock S)
 

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Looking forward to your results. Hopefully, you'll have someone doing the dyno that can change the tune parameters to get the benefit from the intake upgrade. Just adding the intake may not increase power if you are already running a Stage 1 tune.
 

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my best guess..

2.7 IPD, larger throttle body, 200 high flow cats, performance exhaust - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Cobb Stage 1 Tune - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Both mods - 25-35% gain, 45-75 hp, 1 sec faster to 60 (about as fast as stock S)
I don't claim to be an expert tuner. But, these are a bit of a stretch. I wish an N/A car would see these types of gains from bolt-ons and a tune, but I doubt you'll ever see a base boxter/cayman making 350-370hp. 20-30 hp isn't going to get you 1/2 second quicker to 60 either.
 

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I don't claim to be an expert tuner. But, these are a bit of a stretch. I wish an N/A car would see these types of gains from bolt-ons and a tune, but I doubt you'll ever see a base boxter/cayman making 350-370hp. 20-30 hp isn't going to get you 1/2 second quicker to 60 either.
i know the hardware parts do because I tested it. 30 hp/ torque gains do indeed take 1/2 sec off 60 time too. Actually, if you do the math, it's about a 10% gain.

Im not sure about the gains with tune + hardware, but posted results are about 20-30?hp gain. It's reasonable to assume you get more with the new hardware.

So yes, it's reasonable to assume after all mods there will be a 4.5 sec to 60 time. hp and torque be numbers would be similar to a stock 3.4.

wishful thinking? Maybe...but math adds up. I'll test with stage 1 Cobb tune and see what happens.
 

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Do you have the dyno results for the before and after with plenum and TB? I would love to see the plot. Maybe I need to read a bit more, but everything I've seen regarding these parts on the 981 has come up with very little gain. I do agree that a tune will actually allow the benefit to be extracted from the modifications. But, I still think your numbers are on the optimistic side. I guess time will tell

One other thing to consider is that you can't apply linear addition when considering the benefit of adding one modification to an additional modification. For example, if a plenum claims +5hp and a GT3 TB claims another +5 hp, you're not necessarily going to have 10hp after you add both. But, you will see incremental benefit as you add each additional mod. Also, it becomes more and more difficult to reduce 0-60 times with extra power. A full second is a lofty goal for a tune and a few bolt-ons.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I should have an empirical result for this discussion by Thursday evening. Taking my already COBB tuned car to the dyno after adding an IPD plenum. I'll get a baseline and then if needed, have it retuned.

But just based upon my first hand experience of adding the COBB tune on top of headers/exhaust... it was a very noticeable difference adding the tune. Then adding the IPD plenum after all that... not really much difference noted.
Thanks for the info syzdanski!
Looking forward to seeing the dyno results!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
To the OP, I didn't install IPD by itself, but did get gains with all the other mods at once. There was notable power with everything combine making the 2.7 about .5 sec faster to 60. I think the Cobb tune is the best bet if you are looking for best value...because all the mods cost me 6k for gains that are probably similar to the tune alone (not sure didn't dyno). I think the real value in intake/exhaust mods will come from an aggressive stage 2 tune...till then, I don't think it's worth the money. IMO, get the Cobb AP first and later get other mods after an ECU mapping is released for them.

my best guess..

2.7 IPD, larger throttle body, 200 high flow cats, performance exhaust - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Cobb Stage 1 Tune - 10-15% gain, 20-30 hp, .5 sec faster to 60
2.7 Both mods - 25-35% gain, 45-75 hp, 1 sec faster to 60 (about as fast as stock S)
Thanks minthral.
I drove a MkVI GTI before this Cayman S, and the first thing I did was an ECU tune to stage 1 - the gains from stock were definitely noticeable; never dyno'd the car though.
I then added an intake, downpipe, wider turbo inlet & outlet pipes, then ECU to stage 2 - the added hardware and stage 2 ECU did not provide as much as a jump in performance as the stage 1 ECU tune did.
Looks like I'll add mods to the Cayman in the same progression: ECU tune first, then hardware.
 

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All right guys, I just got back from the dyno. Mitch and John were awesome and very accommodating. They are still finalizing some parameters for the plenum mod for idle and low speed, but for WOT, it's all there. I'm just going to give the Cliff Notes below. I will post up dynographs once I receive them from the dyno shop.

When I baselined with headers, exhaust, and intake filters my Cayman S made 295 whp/249 trq on 91 octane with the stock tune.

Adding a 91 octane COBB tune the car made 318 whp /264 trq (+23 whp, +15 trq)
Adding a 93 octane COBB tune the car made 321 whp /267 trq (+26 whp, +18 trq)

Adding the IPD plenum on the existing tune, the car made more torque in the midrange but no gain on top.

So John and Mitch began modifying the tune to benefit from the larger TB and plenum. The results?

91 octane retune adding the IPD plenum, the car made 325 whp / 275 trq (+7 whp, +9 trq)
93 octane retune adding the IPD plenum, the car made 331 whp / 277 trq (+10 whp, +10trq)


I never dyno'd my car when it was bone stock, however, most dynojet put the 981 Cayman S right around the 275 whp mark. So the takeaway from all this?

981 Cayman S + Intake filters, IPD Plenum, GT3 TB, Cargraphic race headers, Borla exhaust & COBB tune = 50 whp increase over stock


 

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Nice! The numbers do sound legit and certainly more plausible for the 3.4. It's a lot harder to make hp with less displacement. I bet the 2.7 does see some nice gains from the Cobb tune. But, it's not going to be 50-75hp.
 

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Nice! The numbers do sound legit and certainly more plausible for the 3.4. It's a lot harder to make hp with less displacement. I bet the 2.7 does see some nice gains from the Cobb tune. But, it's not going to be 50-75hp.
There has to be some motivation for Porsche to not address the hesitation issue in the 2.7 and I think it is purposely done to keep the 2.7 down, in order to give a solid enough reason to charge 12K USD for bigger front brakes and 50 horsepower.

casey
 

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50 whp is great for 3.4. I really want to see 2.7. It's more limited by intake and exhaust so I expect great results. Since stage 1 tune was near 15% gain vs 5% for 3.4, still think it's possible to get at least 60.
 
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