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Ok friends, help me. I'm new (possibly) to the Prosche world. Posted this also in the other Porsche form, you know the one starting with an R :) Which is the bigger/more popular forum for Caymans/Boxsters?

Anyways, current DD is an 2009 370Z 6spd. I bought the car new when it was just on the market about a week, and I love it. It’s got a ton of miles on it, 166k to be exact, but it has served me well. It’s also bulletproof. The Z had been awesome, 3.7L V6 making 333hp in a 3232lbs package. Plus it still looks as good as it did on day one; also my Z, even with the miles is still 9-10/10 on both inside and out. I get it, it’s older tech, and somewhat crude compared to the Cayman, but I’m just so damn used to it. I’m a loyal person, I find something I like and I stick to it.

One of the other reasons I haven’t gotten anything new is because until very very recently the wife was completely against me getting another two seater. But I think I may be wining her over.

Looking at 718 Cayman. Have had my eye on the car ever since the 982s came out. Love the look of the car. Don’t love that it’s a 4 turbo; just seems like even the S would be a downgrade (in some terms, I understand the differences bw the two cars) from the Z.

Test drove the GTS and base yesterday, wanted to drive just the S but they didn’t have any. In any event, the dealership sent me a comp invite to a Porsche Experience event at Millville race track for next week to get a better feel for the different cars. I’ve driven a baby formula car on that track in the past. I used to autocross, but not for years now. I’ve never done any significant track days, but maaaayyyyyybbbbbe this will get me to start doing some track days something I’ve always wanted to do but never had enough time or resources. Daily commute has recently grown to like 50 miles round trip via highways but in some traffic. I also find myself on the turnpike a day or two a week traveling for work.

I'm looking at the base or maybe the S, either new or CPO. Curious what everyone thinks: is it enough of a jump (if at all) from the Z to be worthwhile? Should I wait a few more years Or at least till next spring to see what happens to the Cayman/Boxster line? Other ideas? I’m in no rush to get something as should be evident by now, but am getting the itch for a new car.

Re my budget, it's hard to say, this is as much of a situation where I have to convince myself to spend the $$ as much as actually being able to spend the $$. But realistically, I think I would like to be in the 50s to say the mid-upper 60s at the max.
Car must be Manual, not PDK.
Car must have Apple CarPlay Does anyone know the answer to this question: since 2017-and on 718s can be set up with CarPlay, does anyone know if I find a model that didn't have that $360 option from factory, can the car still be retrofited with CarPlay or do I have to go aftermarket? Or can't be done at all?

Flexible on the other OPTIONS. Still trying to learn/digest them all, but this is what I'm thinking:
-Seats: Need to really check the different seat options, but from what I'm reading the Sports Seats or Sports Seats Plus (don't need/care for the power options).
-Porsche Entry & Drive: this would be cool, b/c I'm so used to it on my Z; I probably won't go out of my way to pay extra for it, but I'll definitely miss it.
-Rev-match function (part of the SC package (only? I guess): I didn't get this on my Z (which from memory was the very first production car to offer something like this) and have always regretted it...but again, depending on overall price, not sure I would spend extra money on the SC package; that center chrono/clock is very cool looking also though.

OTHER:
-PTV would be cool, but also requires PASM; and between the lower ride height and the overall $3k cost--not sure.
-Do any of the models come with at least volume controls on the steering wheel? Or is that part of an upgraded wheel or some package?
-Don't really care about leather seats; dont really want alcantara mostly b/c I think it will wear terribly; don't want interior painted anything, nor wood anything; neutral on aluminium/carbon fiber.

Last comment. Based on my history, I will probably keep the car "forever" like 7-10-12-maybe more years. It will likely be a DD for at least the foreseeable 5-7 years, and likely more. As such, by the time I'm even thinking of selling it, if ever, it will probably have a tooooooooonnnnnn of miles on it, and I'm guessing will have dropped in value so much that it will likely be almost pointless to sell. I'm more or less ok with this, I'm buying the car for me, to drive, I'm not buying to flip it to buy something else in a year or two. With that said, does it make more sense to buy a new (probably less equipped/optioned model) or buy a 2017 or 18 CPO? I typically buy cars new, but I see the benefit of buying a 1-2-2.5 yr old car that has depreciated at someone else's expense; my only real "problem" or "concern" with buying a lightly used car is when buying a used sports car--I worry that it's been beaten to hell and dumped onto the next unsuspecting buyer.

Thoughts? Comments? Advice? Thanks in advance.
 

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Anyways, current DD is an 2009 370Z 6spd. ... I will probably keep the car "forever" like 7-10-12-maybe more years. It will likely be a DD for at least the foreseeable 5-7 years, and likely more. Thoughts? Comments? Advice? Thanks in advance.
Current owners of 718 can tell you their experience. I can speak more broadly.

1. The difference between Datsun/Nissan and Porsche is on totally different levels, not only in the driving experience and "feel" but even the controls are backwards between Japanese and German cars.

2. I don't know the maintenance costs of Nissan but expect it to be reasonably cheap. Maintenance costs on a new Cayman will be the same (high) forever. It doesn't matter if its 12 years old. You will still pay much bigger bills, forever. Plan for it. You can search here and find the costs of intermediate and major services as well as annual oil changes. Some people won't keep Porsches out of warranty fearing maintenance costs.

3. The 4 cyl turbos are intermediate step to the future. These engines are going away. Just do some googling and you will see Porsche is going all in on Electric cars. There are articles showing a phased delivery of concurrent future sales of box/cay ICE and EV and eventually it will be all EV. In 5 years, no one knows what the future will hold. Any assumptions will be "wishes", not necessarily reality. Don't believe wishes. Read facts from Porsche corporate or what their spokesmen tell Autocar or the other European magazines. People can argue all they want. Porsche's corporate direction is clear.

4. If you can find a 1 or 2 year old CPO car, you can let someone else eat the depreciation. Depreciation on new Porsches is a killer. However, you do get to build a car with the options you want, not one where someone else chose for you.

5. There are many arguments between the NA Flat 6 cars and the Turbo 4s. Sound is a big one for one side. Performance for the other side. If you keep the car for many years, and if you care, and if the cars go Electric, which one will be more valuable: an intermediary 4 cyl turbo, or a traditional NA flat 6. Study the past of Porsche. Which ones do collects seek, the air cooled cars or the 986/996 on cars? This only matters if you keep the car a long time. Study the sales history of these cars. Look at the increases when the 981 came out and now what's happened in this market with the 718.

CarPlay can be added https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/SKU718APPLE.html

Go to Suncoast and read all the things that you can buy for these cars. Suncoast is a Porsche Dealer too.

For the other Porsche options, if you buy new, all of them require an approrpriate Porsche tax. IOW, they cost far more than a corresponding Japanese car. Sport Chrono is far more than just rev matching. Maybe its different in 718 but it does other things like stiffens the engine mounts, gets a hard rev limiter. You have to look it up. Besides, whats the point of having a MT to have the computer rev match for you? If that's the case, buy PDK.

Its a different world. If you hang around 12 years, you will learn what tuners to go to, what you can buy online, where the independents are, the value of PCA (discounts at dealers besides the usual club activities).

I would read a lot about all the options. Remember everything cost $$$$. Tires go fast. And then read what the other 718 owners talk about that currently own these cars.

If you can DD a two seat sports car, summer and winter, for 7 - 9 years, kudos to you.

Good luck
 

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Re my budget, it's hard to say, this is as much of a situation where I have to convince myself to spend the $$ as much as actually being able to spend the $$. But realistically, I think I would like to be in the 50s to say the mid-upper 60s at the max.
I forget to discuss this.

It sounds like you are stretching yourself to the limit to buy about the cheapest car Porsche sells (outside of a base Macan). People have done this before. They get in, and then don't worry about Total Cost of Ownership. Especially if you keep the car out of warranty, well stuff happens. Just be prepared for it.

And whatever it cost to fix a Japanese cars? IMO, at least triple it.

And then add the consumables. You know how much oil is in a flat 6? You know how fast the tires go? Do you know about N-spec tires? Look them up. etc. Just saying, be prepared for all the costs.

There have been those who did the same thing only to end up selling the car. Be comfortable in knowing all the costs.
 

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@chows4us

Thank you very much for your very detailed comments.

Maintenance costs: This is understood. It's not that I can't necessarily afford the car and the costs that go along with it, it's that as much as I want one, I've gotten spoiled with cheap and reliable Japanese cars (which is what I've always had, previous car was the last gen Honda Prelude), and I'm not sure I want to have to afford more expensive car upkeep/maintenance. But this is obviously a problem for me to resolve. The Z eats through tires (especially rears) pretty relentlessly, so not surprised, but I will admit that I didn't until just now know what N-spec tires were.

Engines: I have done some research already. I'm anal, I do a lot of research :) I am well aware that Porsche is going EV with 718s starting in what 2023 or 2024. I have not seen article re concurrent future sales of EV and ICE 718s, but 'm guessing that is how it would happen. Yes, I assume the 4cyl 718s would be the least valuable cay/box cars in that case. I get that, however, if I end up getting and keeping the car for a good 10+ years as I imagine I would, would I really even care..? How high would the resale value be on say a 10 yr old 718 with well over 100k miles? At that point, I would probably just do what I kind of always assumed I would do with my Z, and just keep it. So, at least right now, future resale value isn't a huge concern. Again, please correct me if I'm dead wrong on something--that's why I'm here.

Options: I've been reading about the options. I'm a car guy. I understand cars. I can do a lot on cars myself, although I doubt I'd be able to so much as change the windshield wipers on a Porsche -- probably needs a special tool and computer :) So at the very least I understand the options. On the Z, the rev match is an on/off with a button function; I guess it's just always On on the Porsche. Still seems like a cool feature to have. I do know that the SC package includes other features, just pointing out the one that most jumped out at me.

QUESTIONS
Can you explain what you mean by this:
Its a different world. If you hang around 12 years, you will learn what tuners to go to, what you can buy online, where the independents are, the value of PCA (discounts at dealers besides the usual club activities).
I've previously looked up maintenance schedule on a 718, nothing seems that crazy scary. Am I not seeing the whole thing? Btw, is maintenance included (all of it, just oil changes, none) while the car is under warranty?

Thanks for the CarPlay link. Thanks for all the other great info. Please keep it coming.
 

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Options: I've been reading about the options. I'm a car guy. I understand cars. I can do a lot on cars myself, although I doubt I'd be able to so much as change the windshield wipers on a Porsche -- probably needs a special tool and computer :)
Don't laugh. You can't do much of anything without the car talking to Germany. For example, to change the battery you have to code the new battery with its specifics. Otherwise it will think its the old dead battery and treat it as such. Google PIWIS. Its leased to Indys for $$$$ or there are knockoff Chinese for $$ but caveat emptor. Similary, the headlights are plastic. Look up what they recommend for use on the headlights.

So at the very least I understand the options. On the Z, the rev match is an on/off with a button function; I guess it's just always On on the Porsche. Still seems like a cool feature to have. I do know that the SC package includes other features, just pointing out the one that most jumped out at me.
The cars have normal, sport, and sport +. Sport + acts differently. That includes the rev matching.

QUESTIONS
Can you explain what you mean by this:
Not talking about maintenance. I only mean you will learn what tuners are good and which ones are not. PCA gets you discounts at dealers on maintenance plus events. The lingo is different. The world is different. Even if you go to an indy, remember they will charge you the same labor rates whether working on a $220,000 911 Turbo S or a $50,000 base Cayman. If you look around for parts, not all places charge the same amount for the same part. You just got to search but that's routine.

Everything you can think of, someone has probably already gone through. Just ask your questions. Someone will answer with the experience.

I kept my Cayman S for eight years. In another life, I also owned a Honda. They are just worlds apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Don't laugh. You can't do much of anything without the car talking to Germany. For example, to change the battery you have to code the new battery with its specifics. Otherwise it will think its the old dead battery and treat it as such. Google PIWIS. Its leased to Indys for $$$$ or there are knockoff Chinese for $$ but caveat emptor. Similary, the headlights are plastic. Look up what they recommend for use on the headlights.
Well, FML!!!

I mean figured with decades upon decades and countless Porsche models out there, I'm sure this has all been covered and experienced by someone. So...yeah...I'm asking. At least at this stage, what else do I need to know as I ponder my decision???

Also, the whole situation with the engines, current 4T vs lots of rumors of NA6 possibly being reintroduced to the 718 lineup are really messing with any chance of me making a decision. Although, it seems like I'm being unanimously talked into picking up a lightly used CPO '17/18 model anyway, but just knowing that they may bring the NA6 back is :mad:
 

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Well, FML!!!

I mean figured with decades upon decades and countless Porsche models out there, I'm sure this has all been covered and experienced by someone. So...yeah...I'm asking. At least at this stage, what else do I need to know as I ponder my decision???

Also, the whole situation with the engines, current 4T vs lots of rumors of NA6 possibly being reintroduced to the 718 lineup are really messing with any chance of me making a decision. Although, it seems like I'm being unanimously talked into picking up a lightly used CPO '17/18 model anyway, but just knowing that they may bring the NA6 back is :mad:
The GT4 is$100k to start. If the NA 6 comes back to the normal 718 lineup it will probably cost significantly more than the current lineup. Additionally, the engine will have to slot in below the GT4, so, less hp and torque. Be careful what you wish for.


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I mean figured with decades upon decades and countless Porsche models out there, I'm sure this has all been covered and experienced by someone. So...yeah...I'm asking. At least at this stage, what else do I need to know as I ponder my decision???
I can't give you decades of experience and knowledge of the brand in a few paragraphs. You need to do all the reading you can. Pay little attention to "journalists" and reviewers. Do pay attention to owners, here or elsewhere, who actually live with and drive the cars every day. They know from real experience.

The biggest thing you need to understand is to go read everything you can about the Porsche brand "today". Not the Porsche brand of yesterday. Research who owns what and what is going on in Europe. Understand the broad hatred of the European leaders for CO2. Read their websites, their fines, about Dieselgate, and where they are headed. Its an electric future for them (not necessarily true for the US). Porsche is just a brand today. Its not the independent company of yesterday.

Now where do the box/cay fit in their plans and what do you want of a "forever" car? A CPO Turbo 4 718 might be the financially prudent decision: new, modern tech, lated electronic widgets. OTOH, a NA Flat 6 CPO 981 would be traditional. However, if they do come out with a NA Flat 6, that could be the last hurrah, but it won't be cheap, probably way beyond your 60K limit.

So you need to do some research, study what Porsche, the brand, is doing, and learn where the Europeans are going with cars. Then figure what you want out of a Forever Car. Because its not 1985. You cannot guarantee that the Porsche will produce the same engines as today. I wouldn't plan on it.

If I were in your shoes, IMO, the financially prudent thing would be a CPO 718. The traditional thing to do would be a CPO 981. To shoot for the stars, have patience, hope for a NA Flat 6 718 in the near future. Pray. And if it doesn't come about, then you can still fall back on a CPO 718. Good luck!
 

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@chows4us You have been/are being genuinely very helpful. Very thoughtful advice. Thank you!

Your advice vis a vis my personal situation/decision seems pretty spot on. Right now, I'm thinking of doing some more research and holding out until maybe the Spring...see what if anything gets announced by then. This gives me some time to sleep on the decision, not to mention allow me to make the decision with a clear head and backed by significantly more knowledge/research. Plus, as you suggested, I am leaning towards a CPO 718, so it's not like they're going to get any more expensive in the meantime.

I'm big on research, I read everything I can get my hands on. I have a general understanding of what's going on with EU and CO2 from cars, etc. I know more than a bit about Dieselgate.
You obviously live and breathe this stuff, with that said, could you be so kind as to give me a brief summary of what you mean by
Porsche brand "today". Not the Porsche brand of yesterday. ... Its an electric future for them (not necessarily true for the US). Porsche is just a brand today. Its not the independent company of yesterday.
and what your personal thoughts / opinions are on where this is all headed.
 

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You obviously live and breathe this stuff, with that said, could you be so kind as to give me a brief summary of what you mean by and what your personal thoughts / opinions are on where this is all headed.
Sure. I could write all day but to keep it short as a I can (there are many threads here on all of this), some might not agree with me on the time frame, but it is happening. Summary only, some details might be hazy but pretty much spot on.

Porsche used to be its on own company, Porsche AG. In the mid-80s they tried to dump the 911. Instead they dumped all other cars except the 911 but were failing. By the early 90s they brought in the Japanese to teach them "how to build cars effectively". The brought out the Boxster and then the Cayenne. These two cars sort of saved them from disappearing. By the late 2000s, they were immensely profitable, tried to buy VW AG. Didn't happen. VAG bought the company and now Porsche is just one of 9 or so VW brands. So when someone talks "Porsche", remember VAG runs the show. However, Porsche SE, a holding company owned by the Porsche family, own controlling interest in VAG.

Europe is in turmoil. Their leaders need energy independence. Just go to their website and look it up. The fines in 2020 will be Draconian. VAG is in trouble. One example


VAG used to pushback but maybe diesalgate messed them up so they are all in. Porsche is part of VAG. They are all in. Read the Porsche literature. Not what "journalists" write but what VAG or Porsche actually writes. They have to build, electric cars to meet the emission laws.

So the Porsche of old, the brand that raced at Le Mans, won victory after victory is gone. They no longer can do what they want being one of many brands of VW. In turn, European regulations are killing the ICE cars. Porsche has pulled out of LMP1 cars in Le Mans, after coming back after a long absence, in 2014. Now they are gone again.

Done. Who knows what the future holds.

All this information is online, you just need to Google it. Read:
  • the European effort to become energy independent
  • EU auto emission fines
  • Porsche annual reports
Then get out a crystal ball and predict the future. :)

Tesla vs Taycan discussion is at https://www.planet-9.com/threads/mission-e-can-it-compete-with-tesla.198154/ Some of like to argue, I mean discuss, this subject. Strong opinions exist on all sides of the argument (I mean discussion). 😉
 

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@chows4us

Thank you very much for your very detailed comments.

Maintenance costs: This is understood. It's not that I can't necessarily afford the car and the costs that go along with it, it's that as much as I want one, I've gotten spoiled with cheap and reliable Japanese cars (which is what I've always had, previous car was the last gen Honda Prelude), and I'm not sure I want to have to afford more expensive car upkeep/maintenance. But this is obviously a problem for me to resolve. The Z eats through tires (especially rears) pretty relentlessly, so not surprised, but I will admit that I didn't until just now know what N-spec tires were.

Engines: I have done some research already. I'm anal, I do a lot of research :) I am well aware that Porsche is going EV with 718s starting in what 2023 or 2024. I have not seen article re concurrent future sales of EV and ICE 718s, but 'm guessing that is how it would happen. Yes, I assume the 4cyl 718s would be the least valuable cay/box cars in that case. I get that, however, if I end up getting and keeping the car for a good 10+ years as I imagine I would, would I really even care..? How high would the resale value be on say a 10 yr old 718 with well over 100k miles? At that point, I would probably just do what I kind of always assumed I would do with my Z, and just keep it. So, at least right now, future resale value isn't a huge concern. Again, please correct me if I'm dead wrong on something--that's why I'm here.

Options: I've been reading about the options. I'm a car guy. I understand cars. I can do a lot on cars myself, although I doubt I'd be able to so much as change the windshield wipers on a Porsche -- probably needs a special tool and computer :) So at the very least I understand the options. On the Z, the rev match is an on/off with a button function; I guess it's just always On on the Porsche. Still seems like a cool feature to have. I do know that the SC package includes other features, just pointing out the one that most jumped out at me.

QUESTIONS
Can you explain what you mean by this:
I've previously looked up maintenance schedule on a 718, nothing seems that crazy scary. Am I not seeing the whole thing? Btw, is maintenance included (all of it, just oil changes, none) while the car is under warranty?

Thanks for the CarPlay link. Thanks for all the other great info. Please keep it coming.
Maintenance is not included on a Porsche. You can, however, buy a package to prepay the maintenance on a new vehicle.
 

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Since you are keeping the 370Z I would skip the Cayman and get the more fun Boxster. A 2013-2016 known as 981 Boxster and then either an S or GTS. This will easily fit your budget and you can get it in manual. Now, if you like a turbo 4, then a 718 Boxster S is probably available at the top of your budget, though finding a manual may take some time. Unless you plan on buying an aftermarket exhaust, then sport exhaust is an absolute must for either car.

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Since you are keeping the 370Z I would skip the Cayman and get the more fun Boxster. A 2013-2016 known as 981 Boxster and then either an S or GTS. This will easily fit your budget and you can get it in manual. Now, if you like a turbo 4, then a 718 Boxster S is probably available at the top of your budget, though finding a manual may take some time. Unless you plan on buying an aftermarket exhaust, then sport exhaust is an absolute must for either car.

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Thanks @James III. Boxster isn't for me, I live in the Philadelphia area, it's either cold or super hot a good 10-11 months out of the year, and I've just never been a convertible person. I also have a sports bike, which admittedly I've been riding less and less, so that's kind of like a convertible. If I end up getting the Cayman, I'll probably end up selling the Z--too similar.
 

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Thanks @James III. Boxster isn't for me, I live in the Philadelphia area, it's either cold or super hot a good 10-11 months out of the year, and I've just never been a convertible person. I also have a sports bike, which admittedly I've been riding less and less, so that's kind of like a convertible. If I end up getting the Cayman, I'll probably end up selling the Z--too similar.
Okay, I used to ride too, the Boxster comes as close to a sportbike as one can get. I'm in Maryland and drive with my top down the majority of the time, so long as temp is over 50 and under 90 I love it...heated and cooled seats are nice to have.

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Thanks @James III. Boxster isn't for me, I live in the Philadelphia area, it's either cold or super hot a good 10-11 months out of the year, and I've just never been a convertible person. I also have a sports bike, which admittedly I've been riding less and less, so that's kind of like a convertible. If I end up getting the Cayman, I'll probably end up selling the Z--too similar.
Same here, I’m outside of DC and found myself putting the top down on my convertible less and less. The sweet spot was like 70 to 80 degrees, otherwise never used it. Under that was too cold and over that too hot, heat or ac or not. Plus the top took more care than I wanted to put into it. I’ll take a coupe over a convertible any day. I don’t even use the sunroof on my other car.


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I've actually always kept the two cars, the Cayman and the Vette, on my mind...but feel like I may have outgrown the Vette. I may still take a look at it, but don't really see myself buying one any more. I'm 4 0 btw.
40, that’s way too young for a Vette. Lol


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Regarding maintainability - I have a 981 Boxster S. Despite having computers running everything, it's not too difficult to do the normal maintenance items yourself. Mid-engine seems daunting, but you would be surprised how well they built this car to maintain. You can get to just about anything you need to service in about 10-mins of disassembly. Brakes are the easiest I've ever done. Plugs took a little bit of contortion, but not terribly difficult. Oil change is easy if you have means to get the car up on a QuickJack, lift, or liftbars, but can be a bit messy.
 

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Regarding maintainability - I have a 981 Boxster S. Despite having computers running everything, it's not too difficult to do the normal maintenance items yourself. Mid-engine seems daunting, but you would be surprised how well they built this car to maintain. You can get to just about anything you need to service in about 10-mins of disassembly. Brakes are the easiest I've ever done. Plugs took a little bit of contortion, but not terribly difficult. Oil change is easy if you have means to get the car up on a QuickJack, lift, or liftbars, but can be a bit messy.
Very helpful, thanks. I would love to do more stuff on a car, time permitting.
I've done countless brake jobs before. Is your parking break electric (push/pull button) on the 981? The 982 I noticed has an electric parking break, and at least to adjust that I know you need a special machine/computer, not sure if that effect changing the rear breaks on their own.
I never do oil changes myself b/c it's not worth the time and money, but seeing how the Cayman seems to require an oil change only every 10k miles, and given that I understand they're far from inexpensive, I could totally consider doing myself.

On that note, since everyone is "scaring" me on the maintenance costs, I'd love to hear what you guys pay / have paid for maintenance from your experience??? Thanks!
 
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