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Re: Is this exclusionary language? (HPDE Insurance)

I'd like to know who you switched to as well. Please PM if you can't say in the forum.
I use AMICA Mutual Insurance Co. They exclude coverage for competitive or timed events, but nothing about excluding all events at facilities designed for racing. Even so - I still buy track insurance for the peace of mind.
 

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should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

I will be doing my first track day at Infineon Raceway in September. Should I get track insurance? The cost is $500 with 10% deductible for the weekend but i am wondering if I should skip it since group 1 has instructors and strict passing rules. what do you suggest?
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

Can you afford to repair the car yourself if it's wrecked? This is the question you should ask.
My standard auto policy is supposed to cover me at DE events, maybe you should check with your insurance co first to see if you already have coverage.
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

Yeah, check your policy. USAA used to cover DE events, and changed their coverage in the last couple of years to exclude them.

I've often been told to never put a car on track that I couldn't afford to ball up and throw away. That said, HPDE 1 is extremely low risk if the event is well controlled and you listen to your instructor -- don't be that guy I was with at Watkins Glen with the 600 hp modified Z06 who hammered it on the out lap on cold tires, despite instructor telling him to take it easy, and took out both his front end and the guard rails in the Esses, incurring a bill both both repairs.

I'd personally skip the insurance for HPDE 1, but you have to assess your own risk tolerance.
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

What insurance are you guys using that includes coverage of track events? My previous insurer Stare Farm specifically excludes all AX and track type stuff in their documentation so it is not covered...
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

What insurance are you guys using that includes coverage of track events? My previous insurer Stare Farm specifically excludes all AX and track type stuff in their documentation so it is not covered...
I have Farmer's and my agent says I'm covered,Hartford is said to cover DEs.
Don't take the word of an internet message board, make sure you check for yourself.
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

I have Geico and found this in the exclusions:

19. There is no coverage for any loss caused by participation in or preparing for any racing, speed, or demolition contest or stunting activity of any nature, whether or not prearranged.

20. There is no coverage for any loss caused by the operation or use of a motor vehicle on a track designed primarily
for racing or high speed driving. This does not apply if the motor vehicle is being used in connection with an activity other than racing, high speed driving or any competitive driving.

I am still unsure if I am covered. There is no definition of "high speed driving" or "competitive driving"
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

I have Geico and found this in the exclusions:

19. There is no coverage for any loss caused by participation in or preparing for any racing, speed, or demolition contest or stunting activity of any nature, whether or not prearranged.

20. There is no coverage for any loss caused by the operation or use of a motor vehicle on a track designed primarily
for racing or high speed driving. This does not apply if the motor vehicle is being used in connection with an activity other than racing, high speed driving or any competitive driving.

I am still unsure if I am covered. There is no definition of "high speed driving" or "competitive driving"
You're not covered. HPDE is the very definition of high speed driving and typically involves a location used in connection with racing e.g. a track.

All auto insurance will come with a policy booklet, if you don't have one then your agent can send you one. Read it. It is the only thing that tells you whether you have coverage or not for a particular activity.

Most will at least exclude any timed events (e.g. autocross) and many will also include anything on a race track, whether timed or not.

Whether you take out additional insurance to cover driving on a track is up to you, but as with your road cover you should read the fine print. Will it cover track repairs? Does it cover you for liability towards someone you might hit? etc, etc. You should take this into consideration along with the rules of the day, which often have a section about 'incidents'.

Personally I will be getting additional coverage when I take mine to Road Atlanta. That decision is based on my knowledge of the track and my own reluctance to risk an $80k car to my own self-restraint :)
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

I will be doing my first track day at Infineon Raceway in September. Should I get track insurance? The cost is $500 with 10% deductible for the weekend but i am wondering if I should skip it since group 1 has instructors and strict passing rules. what do you suggest?

Just because the group has instructors and strict passing rules, that does not matter, you're driving the car, not the instructor. If you can toss the keys to the car and walk away, then skip the insurance. If it's going to hurt the wallet, then the insurance is a good thing.

Somebody could dump coolant or oil. You could end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time and end up in the tire wall. Coolant makes the track like ice. I know from experience being a green group driver with an instructor and having a car in front of me drop all of it's coolant. Being a newbie your car control skills may not be up to snuff.

Any off track excursion can ruin a good day....
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

I have used Locton Affinity for the past couple of years and find them reasonable. Like others have said it is a personal comfort zone. I think the OP's $500.00 seems a bit high. I just bought a 6 pack from L/A and it works out to less than $400.00 per event.
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

Just because the group has instructors and strict passing rules, that does not matter, you're driving the car, not the instructor. If you can toss the keys to the car and walk away, then skip the insurance. If it's going to hurt the wallet, then the insurance is a good thing.

Somebody could dump coolant or oil. You could end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time and end up in the tire wall. Coolant makes the track like ice. I know from experience being a green group driver with an instructor and having a car in front of me drop all of it's coolant. Being a newbie your car control skills may not be up to snuff.

Any off track excursion can ruin a good day....
Exactly. And if another car hits you, there's a good chance that guy doesn't have insurance for a track event.

Do track policies include liability coverage for any injury/damage to another car and/or its driver? This risk is potentially much greater than totaling your own car.
 

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Re: should i buy track insurance for HPDE 1?

It would be pretty hard to wad up your car at your first DE, assuming of course, that it is a "properly" run event, and that you always have an instructor in the car with you - but I am sure it happens on occasion, and there is always the chance that someone will drop oil or coolant at "the wrong place, and you are there at the wrong time"..... While I have never seen car to car contact at a DE (although I know it happens), I have seen some close calls (in advanced run groups), so you also need to keep in mind that you are not entirely in control of your own destiny.

When I was doing DEs, I just considered the cost of DE insurance part of the cost of doing the event.

As a side note, since I "retired" from DEs, I have had a very good friend and an another person I know from doing DEs wreck thier cars in the last year or so. The one, really wadded up his 996 GT3, the other, had a "minor" off in the wet, and ended up with $23,000 of damage to his 997.1 GT3. It would have cost the same ammount to fix a Cayman - it was basically rear quarter panel and rear suspension damage; now, the shop he used did it "right", I am sure it could have been fixed for a lot less by others...............

By the way, each state has its own "rules" for insurance companies, including exclusionary language. Do not assume because someone has the same insurance company that you have, that the policies are the same state to state. It took me several requests to actually get a full copy of my insurance policy when being insured for DEs first came into question about 5 years ago. However, at this point in time, I think that most regular insurers have an understanding of "DEs" and track days given the growth in these events (and very differing levels or managing them), so that even if you end up with a claim they have to pay, you need to assume you will be dropped immediately (which I have had happen to another friend a couple of years ago), and it will make it harder for you to find someone to carry you as it seems that you get "black listed" for that kind of claim.

And per KCZ's note on liablity - all the forms you sign for DEs protect the track owner and the event holder. It does not protect the participants from each other.
 
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Any track insurance provider recommendations?

I have my first DE coming up and deciding between On Track Insurance or Lockton Motorsports. They are the same price, but I am leaning towards On Track because they are admitted in California and Lockton is not. Anyone have any experience with either company?

Thanks in advance,
Charlene
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

can you post on how much its gonna cost you? if its not too much to ask...
we have the same car and thinking of doing the same thing..

Lemon
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

can you post on how much its gonna cost you? if its not too much to ask...
we have the same car and thinking of doing the same thing..

Lemon
For $70k vehicle value coverage with a 10% deductible, quoted $420 from On Track and $440 from Lockton. Lockton has a $5k max deductible.
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

its 592 dollars of one event! holly cow... thats insane..

thats like 1/2 a year insurance for the car..for a day...granting i am not taking it super fast and i have a instructor with me on DE..do i need it? for 100 dollars or 200 yeah..maybe.. but for that much..wow..

wow..

Lemon
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

its 592 dollars of one event! holly cow... thats insane..

thats like 1/2 a year insurance for the car..for a day...granting i am not taking it super fast and i have a instructor with me on DE..do i need it? for 100 dollars or 200 yeah..maybe.. but for that much..wow..

wow..

Lemon
yup. 2 days of insurance costs more than the HPDE event itself! :( Ive been told better safe than sorry and even though youre with an instructor and being conservative, you neverknow how the people around you will drive. However, after reading the rules for HPDE-1... No passing is allowed except for on the main straights and with a signal to pass. Now Im undecided if I need insurance or not. :/
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

my 2nd D.E .... the first one..i spun and no incident.. shitty tires...

i just let everybody pass me till i get my skills down...

lemon
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

For $70k vehicle value coverage with a 10% deductible, quoted $420 from On Track and $440 from Lockton. Lockton has a $5k max deductible.
Some thoughts:
- Is that with or without Lockton's PCA member discount? (You are a PCA member, aren't you?) ;)
- My present car insurance covers DEs so no need for supplemental coverage. When I was with State Farm which excluded DEs, I bought Lockton's insurance for some tracks. I've had friends who have made claims and they were handled well.
- IMO, for DEs following PCA Rules (or similar) the likelihood of a covered incident (i.e., damage or damage over the deductible) in Beginner/Novice is very, very slight. Car to car contact is extremely rare. Most all serious DE incidents occur in more advanced/instructor groups where speeds are greater, time/distance for corrections are less, and drivers push their limits and their car's limits enough to run out of talent or luck at bad places. Given the high deductible, I think DE insurance at beginning levels is questionable, especially at tracks with good runoff.
:cheers:
 

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Re: Any track insurance provider recommendations?

Basically, I think it comes down to, can you afford to replace your car if you an accident on the track? I do agree that the likelihood of an accident increases as you move up into higher groups. Don't forget it's not always driving ability, you can be behind a car that dumps coolant or blows an engine in front of you in a corner, you will probably end up in a wall.
 
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