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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy guys, looking for your thoughts on this issue.

So, I brought my Cayman to the only Porsche dealer in the state for the 40k mile service on last Monday. I dropped it off with the plan of picking it up on Friday when I would be dropping my Audi Q7 off for service.

I got a call that Wednesday informing me of the cost of the 40k service and that they had put a medium sized, but wide and deep scratch that went through the paint on the passenger side rear wheel arch.

I drove down on Friday to drop the Q7 off and look at the Cayman. I got there a few minutes before the dealer opened and walked the back lot looking for it. The car wasn't there. When they opened, they told me they took my Cayman to their preferred body shop. So, the service manager and I drove over to the body shop to look at the damage.

We got there and the body shop wanted to get started on the repair right away. I didn't have my phone with me, but the body shop did send me these photos:

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So, I asked them what they would have to do to fix the damage and it required a lot more work than the dealer thought it would. They would need to remove the rear hatch, rear tail lights, rear bumper, right rocker panel, right side window trim, and the right side rear window. They weren't sure if the right side door needed to be removed as well. Then they were going to paint/blend the full wheel arch and up the C pillar. Then they were going to try and spray new clear coat over that whole side of the car and the roof of the car. They weren't sure how well that'll work out because Caymans do not have rubber seams on the roof like most cars do. So there isn't a good place to stop applying clear coat.

I'm not happy with that much dismantling of the car, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative other than leaving the scratch as is. So I told them go ahead with the repair. The dealer said they'll cover the cost of the repairs. I told them to take their time and don't rush the repair.

I then got a call this Wednesday afternoon saying my car was ready for pick up. It took them three days to repair the car, which makes me skeptical.

I called the service manager on Wednesday and asked if he had seen the repair job yet and he said no, but it was indeed ready. I asked if he filed an insurance claim or if the dealer paid out of pocket. He said they always pay out of pocket. I do live in a diminished value state so I asked him about diminished value and compensating me for value loss on the car. He pretty much flipped out. He said they would never give a customer anything for damaging a car other than paying for the initial repairs. I told him I didn't want to file a claim with a lawyer and would rather get the 40k service for free (about $1750) and a voucher for the 50k service ($750). He said that he'd talk to the general manager.

I haven't heard anything since then.

I also haven't been able to drive down there to even see the repairs.

So, what should I do? Should I just suck it up and hope the respray lasts? Should I get a diminished value lawyer and start that process? Should I try and contact the GM directly rather than wait? Should I file a complaint against the dealer with PCNA?

On a side note, this dealer must damage a lot of cars. They put three scratches in my rear bumper during my 30k service that I didn't notice until a week later. Now they started a new policy that when you drop off a car, the walk around it and record a video highlighting every little blemish. I think this tactic is backfiring because it seems to be prooving that they are responsible.
 

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Sorry this happened to you. I’m assuming that you feel the car would have diminished value because the paint would not be factory perfect? It doesn’t sound like there will be any Carfax record of this being done.

This is just one guy’s opinion, but anybody who is going to drive and enjoy their vehicles is going to damage the paint. It’s a consumable item, and I’m not convinced that factory paint is better than that done by a Porsche-approved body shop. I’ve heard that post-production can be harder and more durable because of environmental regs in the EU.

I would ensure the repair is absolutely 100%. That you can’t tell anything happened. I would make sure they were willing to warrantee the work for at least a year and I would see if they came back offering you some free service.

And then I would drive my car and not worry about it.
 

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Firstly it’s thumbs up,to the dealer for taking responsibility upfront regarding the scratch - there’s many stories of dealers denying damaging peoples cars.

Thumbs down to the dealer for “ flipping out ” regarding diminished value - they definitely could have handled it better.

You asking for the service as compensation is more than fair.

I’d wait to Monday and see how they respond - if they don’t respond call them and see if they agree to your offer.

Keep us posted on how it works out.

as Canux stated.

“ I would ensure the repair is absolutely 100%. That you can’t tell anything happened. I would make sure they were willing to warrantee the work for at least a year and I would see if they came back offering you some free service.”

I agree 100%.
 

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My stealer damaged the front bumper and scratched the interior leather as well, I was stern and demanded full repair, they did, you over pay these dealers least thing they can do is to do the right thing, since then I have not taken my 981 to the stealer, I go to an indi for maintenance, got tired of getting ripped off. If they are not helpful then show then your tattoos, Im sure they will get scared and comply with your demands.
 

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Get the repair inspected by a friendly body shop that knows Porsches and can validate the quality of the work done. Hopefully your dealer had it fixed properly and all will be well. This was not the case for me years ago when my dealer somehow got battery acid on a couple patterns and had the "repair" done by hacks. If you're not happy with the repair, negotiate with the dealer to have it properly repaired by your body shop, not theirs. Get the PCNA area rep involved if necessary. But here's hoping everything is already fixed right.
 

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Sorry to hear of your damage. I've had two, separate, but similar situations in the years gone by.

I had a 1984 944 that an AMG dealer T-boned into a 1989 BMW 3-series convertible, both cars on the dealership property and driven by dealership employees. The dealer towed the car to a collision shop without my permission, undoubtedly hoping it could repair the car before I arrived back from my trip. Too much internal damage, bent frame, etc. I asked for diminished value compensation plus repair at a shop of my choosing. It got ugly. My wife, a practicing attorney at the time, sued them for gross negligence. They did not respond to the lawsuit. We found them in default. That got their attention, and we settled for fair retail market value + reimbursement of recent repair cost I had just spent with them. The car was purchased "as is" by the body repair shop owner.

The second situation is when my kid's bike tipped over and scratched my CR over the driver's side rear wheel quarter panel. I got a quote from my preferred collision shop, and it would have had to remove a lot of body panels, as you had described, to repair the scratch. "First do no harm." I sucked it up and purchased Dr. Color Chip. It was not intended for scratches of the width that I had, but I worked it in over several applications, and decided to live with it. I barely notice it now, and while disconcerting to me at the time, I've moved on. Stuff happens, its life, and I've been blessed, etc.

I mention these two situations as being of different degrees of severity from my personal perspective. I was outraged by the dealer's attitude and actions on the first, and realized that I can repair the CR scratch myself to be "good enough" (and I am discriminating) and just moved on for the second situation.

Your situation falls in between these two, so good luck with making an decision and moving on.
 

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So sorry for your troubles! IMO, there is a good chance that this incident will show up on CarFax at some point - either as an Accident or Damage Reported. So, your concern about DV is valid IMO. Good luck with how you resolve that with either $$ or free services. Where I live in the Pacific NW, there is a large Porsche dealership only 40 minutes away, but has a tarnished reputation earned after years of questionable practices (selling and servicing). So when I bought by 981-S, (from a boutique dealership) I did some pretty extensive research to find dealerships with better reputations. One is 90 min. away, the other 2.5 hrs. away. I ended up settling on the 90 min. away one for now for "big" servicing and luckily I found a Indie German Car Shop in town (owner has 2 Porsches) that has a great rep; they do minor servicing (e.g., oil changes). Long way of suggesting that you consider finding another dealership if they have a reputation for damaging cars. Good luck with settling this matter.
 

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I'll be the outlier here. The dealer took responsibility and took care of the repair. You believe that there will be diminished value. Your belief is based on nothing more than instinct since you haven't seen the repair. Based on your belief you are now demanding an additional $2500 in compensation in the form of free service? Personally, I think your demands are unreasonable.

If the repair was done in there own shop at their expense there will likely be no Carfax report and little to no diminished value. It was a scratch, not structural damage. I would not report it to your own insurance company because there is no recourse for them to "fight it out". The repair has been made - what would they do going forward except put the repair on record. You can, of course, get a lawyer and pay him for a DV lawsuit. That will probably cost more than just accepting some form of compensation from the dealer.

You can contact PCNA but most dealers are franchises and it is highly doubtful that they will have any position in the matter. As accident occurred, the dealer made a repair with your consent and the issue is ostensibly resolved.

I think that you should negotiate with the GM but in a reasonable manner. Maybe accepting the next service or a partial refund of the current service. I agree with the poster above who stated that I would see if the repair was adequate and then drive my car and not worry about it. I have gotten worse damage simply using the car. In the end, no one is going to worry about a small repaired scratch on a used car. DV would be an issue if there was structural damage rather than cosmetic so I wouldn't expect much on that account.

Look, I would be pissed too if they damaged the car but things happen and the dealer took the responsibility. Take a look at the repair, check it somewhere else if need be and then decide what you want to do. If you want it repainted or redone elsewhere then I would get back to the dealership and demand the repair be done properly but, if you're satisfied, just forget it and use the car and enjoy it.

In any event, good luck and sorry that it happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the opinions.

We have a little one and were planning on trading-in or selling the Cayman for a 992 911. He's getting old enough to last a longer car ride. I had the Cayman listed on PCA this past summer with a few buyers lined up. We opt'd to keep it for another year before moving onto the 911, didn't want to buy the first year of a new model.

I did get word back from the GM through the service manager, apparently the GM will not talk to customers directly. He said they'll only pay the initial repair cost and since they paid in cash for the repair, it won't show up on carfax. So, he felt there is no requirement for diminished value or any other compensation. I told the service manager I was planning on selling the Cayman and he suggested I simply don't disclose the repair... also the car cannot be CPO'd because the dealer used an autobody shop that is not Porsche Certified. The autobody shop told me that their work is warrantied for as long as I own the car. No warranty coverage transfers to a new owner.

After hearing all of that, I thanked the service manager for talking to the GM (service manager is relatively new to the dealership), that I was disappointed with his decision and would be sending a complaint to PCNA about the dealer. The service manager said that he understood and did not care about PCNA.

I'll be picking my car up next weekend (due to weather) and will never use this dealer again. There is one good independent shop that was recommended to me, I'll try them in the future.

We'll probably keep the car for several more years and not buy a 911. At which point the value of the Cayman will have dropped enough that the loss in value for the respray will be minimal.

IMG_9104.JPG
 

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I find your update pretty disappointing.

“ GM doesn’t speak to customers directly “ - I found that really disturbing, theres so many poor implications that come to mind here - would he speak to me if I was buying a new car ?

“ Don’t disclose the repair “ - Wow shows the level of honesty this dealer has.

They used a non certified body shop - again IMO shows their lack of integrity in trying to keep you whole as possible. They should have used a Certified shop so your car could pass the CPO process - you will directly suffer from diminished value because of this.

“ The SA said he did not care about PCNA “ - wow what a stupid comment to make.

I hope they send you a customer survey and you fill it out appropriately.

I’d love to hear how PCNA follows up with you on this. If you get no further satisfaction from the dealer or PCNA I would hope you publicly name this dealer.

Finally, you seem to have a very calm and level headed approach to this situation - kudos.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I just received a response from PCNA. It is somewhat generic, but they responded within three days of the complaint over Thanksgiving. It also included this sentence, "Please know, we have documented your concerns and have made them available for internal review."

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that this dealer intercepts customer surveys. I've had my Porsche serviced twice, custom order a 2018 Q7 Prestige and had the Q7's 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k and 60k services performed at this dealer. Yet, I have never received a customer survey. I included that information in my complaint to PCNA as you'd think that I would've received at least one survey or that PCNA/AOA discontinued the program.

I'll let anyone know the dealer via PM.
 

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I am sorry that you received that type of response from the dealer. I would also never use this dealer again and would probably use social media to make people aware of the type of people that work there. I wouldn't get my hopes up with PCNA, it's really not something they usually would get involved with.

I also commend you for keeping calm. What's done is done. You still have a great car and a scratch does little to diminish that fact. I have never seen a scratch diminish the value of a car on resale. It's basically wear and tear. I would disclose the repaint to a potential buyer, stressing that it was simply a scratch. The car is 4 years old and a few scratches not unexpected.

My customer surveys have come directly from corporate, I'm not sure that the dealership can stop them but can't imagine why you're not getting them.

If I were in your position, I would go forward with my plans to sell, I really don't think that it will make much difference as long as the repair looks good. I also wouldn't worry about the CPO issue, that's a dealership issue, not your issue.

Whatever you decide is the right decision. Good luck
 

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Howdy guys, looking for your thoughts on this issue.

So, I brought my Cayman to the only Porsche dealer in the state for the 40k mile service on last Monday. I dropped it off with the plan of picking it up on Friday when I would be dropping my Audi Q7 off for service.

I got a call that Wednesday informing me of the cost of the 40k service and that they had put a medium sized, but wide and deep scratch that went through the paint on the passenger side rear wheel arch.

I drove down on Friday to drop the Q7 off and look at the Cayman. I got there a few minutes before the dealer opened and walked the back lot looking for it. The car wasn't there. When they opened, they told me they took my Cayman to their preferred body shop. So, the service manager and I drove over to the body shop to look at the damage.

We got there and the body shop wanted to get started on the repair right away. I didn't have my phone with me, but the body shop did send me these photos:

View attachment 265789

View attachment 265790

So, I asked them what they would have to do to fix the damage and it required a lot more work than the dealer thought it would. They would need to remove the rear hatch, rear tail lights, rear bumper, right rocker panel, right side window trim, and the right side rear window. They weren't sure if the right side door needed to be removed as well. Then they were going to paint/blend the full wheel arch and up the C pillar. Then they were going to try and spray new clear coat over that whole side of the car and the roof of the car. They weren't sure how well that'll work out because Caymans do not have rubber seams on the roof like most cars do. So there isn't a good place to stop applying clear coat.

I'm not happy with that much dismantling of the car, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative other than leaving the scratch as is. So I told them go ahead with the repair. The dealer said they'll cover the cost of the repairs. I told them to take their time and don't rush the repair.

I then got a call this Wednesday afternoon saying my car was ready for pick up. It took them three days to repair the car, which makes me skeptical.

I called the service manager on Wednesday and asked if he had seen the repair job yet and he said no, but it was indeed ready. I asked if he filed an insurance claim or if the dealer paid out of pocket. He said they always pay out of pocket. I do live in a diminished value state so I asked him about diminished value and compensating me for value loss on the car. He pretty much flipped out. He said they would never give a customer anything for damaging a car other than paying for the initial repairs. I told him I didn't want to file a claim with a lawyer and would rather get the 40k service for free (about $1750) and a voucher for the 50k service ($750). He said that he'd talk to the general manager.

I haven't heard anything since then.

I also haven't been able to drive down there to even see the repairs.

So, what should I do? Should I just suck it up and hope the respray lasts? Should I get a diminished value lawyer and start that process? Should I try and contact the GM directly rather than wait? Should I file a complaint against the dealer with PCNA?

On a side note, this dealer must damage a lot of cars. They put three scratches in my rear bumper during my 30k service that I didn't notice until a week later. Now they started a new policy that when you drop off a car, the walk around it and record a video highlighting every little blemish. I think this tactic is backfiring because it seems to be prooving that they are responsible.
So it occurs to me that if I were buying your car, and the scratch was still there, I wouldn't worry about it much. It's just a paint scratch! I doubt that you have any substantial claim for DV. On the other hand, you were deprived of the use of your car for several days, and that might be compensable, although such a claim is honestly unlikely to gather much sympathy.
 

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aybe accepting the next service or a partial refund of the current service. I agree with the poster above who stated that I would see if the repair was adequate and then drive my car and not worry about it. I have gotten worse damage simply using the car. In the end, no one is going to worry about a small repaired scratch on a used car. DV would be an issue if there was structural damage rather than cosmetic so I wouldn't expect much on that account.

Look, I would be pissed too if they damaged the car but things happen and the dea
Thanks for the opinions.

We have a little one and were planning on trading-in or selling the Cayman for a 992 911. He's getting old enough to last a longer car ride. I had the Cayman listed on PCA this past summer with a few buyers lined up. We opt'd to keep it for another year before moving onto the 911, didn't want to buy the first year of a new model.

I did get word back from the GM through the service manager, apparently the GM will not talk to customers directly. He said they'll only pay the initial repair cost and since they paid in cash for the repair, it won't show up on carfax. So, he felt there is no requirement for diminished value or any other compensation. I told the service manager I was planning on selling the Cayman and he suggested I simply don't disclose the repair... also the car cannot be CPO'd because the dealer used an autobody shop that is not Porsche Certified. The autobody shop told me that their work is warrantied for as long as I own the car. No warranty coverage transfers to a new owner.

After hearing all of that, I thanked the service manager for talking to the GM (service manager is relatively new to the dealership), that I was disappointed with his decision and would be sending a complaint to PCNA about the dealer. The service manager said that he understood and did not care about PCNA.

I'll be picking my car up next weekend (due to weather) and will never use this dealer again. There is one good independent shop that was recommended to me, I'll try them in the future.

We'll probably keep the car for several more years and not buy a 911. At which point the value of the Cayman will have dropped enough that the loss in value for the respray will be minimal.

View attachment 265843
Buying a 992? that is the ultimate overpriced car.
 

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Buying a 992? that is the ultimate overpriced car.
Do you really think that the 992 is the ultimate overpriced car?

911 (992) Carrera - $97,400
GT4 - $99,200
Taycan Turbo - $150,900

911 remains the Porsche halo car, pricing value is subjective.
 

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Do you really think that the 992 is the ultimate overpriced car?

911 (992) Carrera - $97,400
GT4 - $99,200
Taycan Turbo - $150,900

911 remains the Porsche halo car, pricing value is subjective.
Yes, value is in the eye of the beholder. Even a base 992 is quicker 0-60 than a GT4 of either generation (and no slouch in a track scenario), usable year round even in snow, and can accommodate two adults and two kids/car seats. The value proposition is entirely different than any Cayman/Boxster or for that matter anything else in the ICE Porsche lineup. The Taycans mix things up, but I'm unable to assess the value prop for a car I couldn't own because I live in a high-rise with no electrical outlets in the garage, much less a location for a fast charger.
 

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Do you really think that the 992 is the ultimate overpriced car?

911 (992) Carrera - $97,400
GT4 - $99,200
Taycan Turbo - $150,900

911 remains the Porsche halo car, pricing value is subjective.
Add some rip off Porsche options and the 992 Carrera or Carrera S goes easily 130,000 - to infinite USD, just ridiculous.
 

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Add some rip off Porsche options and the 992 Carrera or Carrera S goes easily 130,000 - to infinite USD, just ridiculous.
I’m not sure what your point is, you can option lots of cars to whatever level you want. Yes you can make a Carrera that costs $130 k but you can also walk with a perfectly good car at base price. You can option a 718 to well over $100 k too, it’s all up to the buyer.

If you think it’s ridiculous you vote with your wallet and buy something else, no one is forced to buy a Porsche. As said above, value is subjective. If one wants a 911, then they pay the price or buy something else. There are many cheaper cars on the market, it’s all good.


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I’m not sure what your point is, you can option lots of cars to whatever level you want. Yes you can make a Carrera that costs $130 k but you can also walk with a perfectly good car at base price. You can option a 718 to well over $100 k too, it’s all up to the buyer.

If you think it’s ridiculous you vote with your wallet and buy something else, no one is forced to buy a Porsche. As said above, value is subjective. If one wants a 911, then they pay the price or buy something else. There are many cheaper cars on the market, it’s all good.


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My point is that a 992 Carrera S is not worth 150,000 USD.
 
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