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Discussion Starter #101
Hi all,

I have a permanent sport suspension... which I love except for times I have to go over any speedbump or leave a parking lot... PASM is something that's been on my list for a long time.

So I did a little research, and it doesn't look like there are all that many parts for the PASM option (I475) on 987.1 Boxsters. It looks like a few suspension components and the computer. I can't find anything related to wiring harness (except for a wiring harness repair kit), and I assume DME needs some coaxing.

Has anyone retrofitted PASM to a non-PASM car? What would it take to get one of these DSCs into a non-PASM car? I'd have to be able to manually control the thing so that I could raise it when needed. I know that billstein makes an aftermarket electronically controlled kit, but I'd love the finish like a factory button (and frankly, the performance of the DSC would be a nice upgrade).

We do have our Standalone DSC unit that is designed for non-PASM cars. We have installed several of these. Once having the Bilstein PASM shocks installed in the car, we have the PASM harness, accelerometer kit with harness and the DSC box all ready to go for you.
 

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In house we solder the wires. You could solder or use scotchlok.

We now have enough of the boxes and accelerometers to start shipping all Gen1 orders.
10% group buy still available for 987.1??
 

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The only controllable aspect is the shocks - not the springs. The ride height doesn't change when you hit the PASM button.
 

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Thanks for the info... I saw a 981 with some feature that raised it 30mm... I assumed it was PASM doing that. My car didn't have stock suspension when I bought it from the dealer. I love the stance and performance, but can't stand the scraping... And if I'm replacing the suspension, I might as well try to fix the problem and improve performance while I'm at it. This has all been good info.

So, ride height aside, does DSC automatically adjust based on driving conditions, or is there a button to engage it?
 

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Thanks for the info... I saw a 981 with some feature that raised it 30mm... I assumed it was PASM doing that. My car didn't have stock suspension when I bought it from the dealer. I love the stance and performance, but can't stand the scraping... And if I'm replacing the suspension, I might as well try to fix the problem and improve performance while I'm at it. This has all been good info.

So, ride height aside, does DSC automatically adjust based on driving conditions, or is there a button to engage it?
Read the first post in the thread and I think you'll find your answer ;)
 

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Read the first post in the thread and I think you'll find your answer ;)
all three functions are engaged using the PASM button on your dash
Yes, that applies to PASM cars, but how does the retrofit for non-PASM work? Do I need to get the PASM button and somehow enable that in DME... See my dilemma?
 

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Discussion Starter #109
Yes, that applies to PASM cars, but how does the retrofit for non-PASM work? Do I need to get the PASM button and somehow enable that in DME... See my dilemma?
For non-PASM cars, the standalone box will change between the settings on its own and will do this based off of the inputs being made and how abruptly the inputs are made. The standalone units work great!

There have been people with non-PASM cars that will add the PASM button to the dash, but there is a lot of wiring involved with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Yesterday we received a call from someone that used scotchlok instead of soldering. Be very careful when using the scotchlok and make sure that the blade does not cut any of the wires. This did happen for one person and that was the cause of an issue. We suggest soldering, but do understand that not everyone has access to a soldering iron.

Here is a photo of the soctchlok and the blade that we are talking about:
20140820_104626.jpg
 

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For non-PASM cars, the standalone box will change between the settings on its own and will do this based off of the inputs being made and how abruptly the inputs are made. The standalone units work great!

There have been people with non-PASM cars that will add the PASM button to the dash, but there is a lot of wiring involved with that.
That's great! I'm not afraid of doing the wiring... just need to know which wires to add... which information is exceedingly difficult to find... although not having to do the button is certainly something to consider.
 

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We do have our Standalone DSC unit that is designed for non-PASM cars. We have installed several of these. Once having the Bilstein PASM shocks installed in the car, we have the PASM harness, accelerometer kit with harness and the DSC box all ready to go for you.
I'm very interested in doing this to my non-PASM car, but with a couple of twists.
1) I'd like to use PASM struts instead of damptronics - at least to start with, either used or new.
2) I'd like to upgrade the dash switch set (I'm also going to add the Porsche Sport Mode retrofit about the same time). I'll be looking to do the appropriate rewiring if it won't cause a problem.

I'm gathering the kit you have includes the accelerometer and a wiring harness to get to the 4 corners, in addition to the DSC. Feel free to PM me with any details including recommendation for a local shop (Boston area) if you have one. I'll try to call when I can find some time in the next week or so.

Do you know if I get the switch set with the PASM switch and Sport Mode (Manual 2011), whether selecting Sport mode will try to turn on PASM from the switch logic board itself? Will that work well if wired up to the DSC or will that just advance the DSC to the next of 3 modes?

thanks - this is exciting.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
I'm very interested in doing this to my non-PASM car, but with a couple of twists.
1) I'd like to use PASM struts instead of damptronics - at least to start with, either used or new.
2) I'd like to upgrade the dash switch set (I'm also going to add the Porsche Sport Mode retrofit about the same time). I'll be looking to do the appropriate rewiring if it won't cause a problem.

I'm gathering the kit you have includes the accelerometer and a wiring harness to get to the 4 corners, in addition to the DSC. Feel free to PM me with any details including recommendation for a local shop (Boston area) if you have one. I'll try to call when I can find some time in the next week or so.

Do you know if I get the switch set with the PASM switch and Sport Mode (Manual 2011), whether selecting Sport mode will try to turn on PASM from the switch logic board itself? Will that work well if wired up to the DSC or will that just advance the DSC to the next of 3 modes?

thanks - this is exciting.
This will work very well with the PASM struts. Our standalone kit comes with the wiring harness needed to reach all four corners of the car. When selecting the sport mode, it will not try to change any of the PASM settings once the DSC box is plugged in.
 

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Group Buy pricing is still available!
Just saw this thread as I'm leaving for a couple of days at The Glen. Have a 2006 Cayman S w/PASM so it sounds like a straightforward upgrade. Won't have chance to investigate further until I return. Hope the group buy pricing will still apply, and confirm the pricing w/accelerometer that I understand I will need.

Thanks,
Dennis
 

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Yesterday we received a call from someone that used scotchlok instead of soldering. Be very careful when using the scotchlok and make sure that the blade does not cut any of the wires. This did happen for one person and that was the cause of an issue. We suggest soldering, but do understand that not everyone has access to a soldering iron.

Here is a photo of the soctchlok and the blade that we are talking about:
View attachment 50422
Harris and All:

I bought some much better wire-taps from Home :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear in Duluth, MN. They are a better alternative, but with the close quarters and all the wires so close, I elected to solder without using connectors. I cut into a couple strands while stripping insulation. Just made sure to get enough solder there to cover for it. Good contact all around.

Strip about ½" of insulation off the Porsche wire. Strip about 1" off the DSC wire (I cut my DSC wires to size). Wrap the DSC wire around the bare Porsche wire. Twist it so it's mechanically held to the Porsche wire. Heat the wires at the joining point. You need enough heat in the wire before you add solder so the wire will melt the solder, not just the soldering iron. Solder should immediately "soak into" the wires of both the DSC and the car.

I found a small butane powered soldering iron at Radio Shack a couple years ago. It's really ideal for this. No cords and has a very right-sized point. Heats quickly etc. Small enough for a shirt pocket. Nice tool to have around for odd soldering jobs.

Get rosin core solder. Not acid core. You want the kind for small electronic jobs. I like thin solder wire better than thick, but I've used both with success.

Heat the wire just enough so the wire can melt the solder. When the solder soaks into the wire, you're done. Remove heat and hold everything still for a few seconds. If you don't heat the thing you're soldering enough, solder doesn't stick or it cracks and falls off, looks bad etc. After you solder and like the results, insulate your solder job with electrical tape of shrink wrap.

I would not use a flame to heat the wires in this case. Too many other things could get melted nearby. Use a soldering gun or iron and pay attention to possibilities of collateral damage. High stakes here!

If you think heat traveling up a wire could damage an electrical component, put an alligator clip on the wire between the heat and the device. The heat will travel up the clip and save the component (heat sink).

Suggest newbies try soldering something cheap before they rip open their car's wiring!!!

:cheers:
 

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All:

OK. Have had a little seat-time with my Gen1 CS with DSC now. Here are my impressions with a few complications thrown in...

1. Prior and since my buying the DSC box, I've had stock Bilstein Damptronics, (I think B16?) on my car with Bilstein stock springs. I have GT3 LCAs, Tarrett adjustable rear toe links with bump-steer adjust and clamps for the eccentrics. I'm using TPC sway bars. When first installed, I found the Damptronics helped the ride, especially on undulating interstates, quite a bit. Stock PASM in Normal is kind of loose on the highway and the body moves up and down strangely, at least on my early Gen1.

I had the front end set quite low, apparently...I think springs may have settled after the install. The front camber was -2.5. Front was toed out a tiny bit...1/32" total. The rear was about 1" or a bit more higher than the front. Rear Camber was -2.3. Rear was toed IN about 2/32" total.

I took a trip through the Carolinas with this setup and the car was on rails. It was occasionally harsh on bigger bumps, but other than that, ride was acceptable. Decreasing radii at speed were no problem at all. Just turn the wheel a bit more and the car followed. Give a little gas and the rear wheels helped steer you around and you exited the corner without putting a foot wrong... with a big grin.

On the way home from this gonzo trip, I hit some massive pot-holes on I-65 at speed. When I dropped my friend off at his house, I noticed the front making horrid noises when I turned the front wheels. Figured my upper strut bearings got damaged. I was right.

Instead of buying new Porsche strut bearings, I got TPC's spring and strut-top package. This is what they use on their Stage 3+ suspension (or whatever it's called now). The springs are single strength (i.e. not progressive). They use only one spring per strut whereas the Bilstein setup used a lighter helper spring with a stronger main-spring. The main Bilstein spring looks to be lighter than the fat red spring from TPC.

Because the car had been working so well prior to and even after busting the strut bearing, I had the alignment set up the same as before. The car was pretty low, especially in front. Could be they measured the ride height of the front with broken strut bearings in them, then matched that height?

The alignment was -2.5 degrees camber in front with 1/32" total toe-out.

In the rear, I had -2.3 camber and 2/32" toe-IN.

With this setup and the red TPC springs (still with stock PASM box), the car a little unruly but tolerable at low speeds. There was a little extra motion on bad roads, especially in front.

I went to a track weekend at Putnam Park with this setup...same as the Carolina settings but with the red springs. I had two Cayman S driving students with stock suspensions on their cars. One was a Gen 1 CS, one was a Gen2 CS. Both were running Michelin PSS tires in stock 18" sizes. I had the same tires in the same sizes on my car.

My car was a bit tail-happy in corners. I had to apply power very carefully coming out of turns because the back would slowly come around on me. It was controllable but it wasn't fast.

Riding in both of my student's stock cars, I could tell both were sticking better at the rear than my car. Although I'm probably the least competitive, attitude-wise, of anyone at the track, I really enjoy that hooked-up feeling that I get when a suspension is right. I've experimented with alignment settings extensively this year. It was not a good feeling to know I'd spent all this money and time only to make my car go slower.

One big advantage I saw between my car and both student's cars was that both of the student's cars' front tires were chunked and basically trashed by Sunday afternoon. Mine had even wear and looked good...and all four PSS's are still in use. 2.5 degrees camber is the right amount for these cars, IMHO. I tried 3.0. It was too much. Very hard to get the tire to lean over enough to sit flat on the ground.

When I got home, I called Tom Chan for some recommendations on suspension settings. i wrote everything down. By then, I had ordered and was waiting for DSC to come in. I didn't change anything until after the DSC had been installed in the car for a couple weeks.

This is where the car was before DSC was installed:

B16 Damptronics with TPC "RED SPRINGS" and hats, GT3 LCAs, Tarrett adjustable rear toe-links with bump-steer adjustment and clamps for stock eccentrics; TPC bars, set at middle position in front, full soft rear.

FRONT: Ride height set low, maybe 2" drop? Front Camber = -2.5 degrees; Toe = OUT 1/32" total.

REAR: Height lower than stock but about 1" (?) higher than the front. Rear Camber: -2.3 degrees; Toe: IN 2/32" total.

Sorry, I don't have the BEFORE ride height measurements that I gave Tom Chan on the phone.

With DSC first added, the car felt stiffer than with PASM at low speeds on the street. In fact, it felt quite stiff most of the time.

I met Harris and the several of the guys from TPC at the Tudor races at Road America. Got to see their truck and race cars and met the crew. DSC had just been installed on my car and it seemed quite stiff with no difference detectable between settings. They inspected the wiring and the mounting of the accelerometer and pronounced it good. Mike Levitas said that the default setting when something is not right for the shocks has to be full stiff because of DOT regs. DOT doesn't want the car flipping over if something goes wrong...not really an issue with Caymans, but the law is the law.

Mike asked me to return the DSC box and the accelerometer to Harris at TPC the next week to verify that it was OK. I did that. When I got it back and re-installed it, it was a bit better, but the car still rode pretty stiff in front on lower speed bad roads (we have a lot of those). At this point, I still had the above suspension settings on the car. (Note: After the wires are soldered, it's easy to un-install and re-install the accelerometer because there is a little white plug on its wires. You just pull the plug and out it comes...Leave the soldering alone.)

Last week, I finally got my suspension set up to Tom Chan's recommendations. Now the car rides better. When I first got it back with the new, taller ride height, the front turn-in seemed a little washed out feeling. Now, I'm either used to it or have put enough miles on it to allow the tires to wear into the new settings. It seems to stick better in the front than when I first got it out of the shop.

The whole car feels better balanced now and corner speeds are up. It doesn't dive into corners like it did before I installed the red springs, but it's very, very good. I think the front is getting better each time I drive it.

Here are the alignment settings I'm using now.

ALIGNMENT SETTINGS:

Ride Height (Shop floor (earth?) to top/center of wheel well) 26.0" Front / 26.75” Rear.

NOTE: Tom says front was too low and might be hitting the struts' bump-stops. It didn't feel like it was hitting stops to me. I've hit stops on my M3 before (Bilstein Sport struts...not coil-overs...with H&R sport springs that settled quite a bit). We raised it anyway to see what would happen. Tom felt that there was too much front to rear rake and that was contributing to tail-happy behavior.

Front Suspension: TPC strut tops have built-in camber. This gives, I think about 1.5 degrees extra negative camber out of the box with stock LCAs. Tom said with adjustable LCAs, the trick setup is to move the camber plates (strut tops) 180 degrees so that they give LESS camber than stock, not more. Then add shims to the lower control arms to bring the camber back to -2.5 to -2.7 degrees. The longer LCAs give more front track.

I did NOT do this. I have -2.5 with the strut tops in the normal position. Raising the ride height alone took up all the shims we could find. I may try this trick next time but I'll need to buy more shims first.

Front Toe: We set front Toe OUT 1/32” total as before.

REAR: Set rear camber at –2.2 degrees. No more than -2.2

NOTE: TPC thinks -2.2 degrees is the "magic number" for the rear. More than that is counter-productive. I think I had too much negative camber in back combined with the rake (taller rear ride height compared to front) This is likely why my car was tail-happy.

Rear Toe: 4/32” total Toe IN (1/16” per side) NOTE: This is more rear toe-in than I've ever used. TPC thinks it's beneficial and does not hurt rear tire wear. Rear feels extremely planted with these settings, I must admit.

So now, I've got a car that has less urgent turn-in than before but sticks far better in the back and feels more neutral. The DSC still does not seem to soften the street ride of the car at lower speeds. Above 40mph or so, the ride is great. I've become adept at changing the PASM/DSC boxes around. The low-speed everyday street ride seems better with PASM. The handling in corners, however, is nicer with DSC. Overall, I like DSC better...at least in Position 1.

With the taller suspension, the ride with DSC isn't by any means harsh or bad, just not smooth or refined as I thought it might be. DSC with Damptronics and the red springs doesn't ever seem harsh, just a little more bouncy or active in front...and I think that may be the red springs as much as anything.

With the taller ride height, I can hit bigger bumps without upsetting the car. That is nice. Still expected the low speed ride would be better. The front red springs seem to be too stiff or something compared to the Bilstein stock Damptronic springs with helpers. I'm only using Setting 1 of DSC so far and only comparing it to "Normal" PASM.

This is by no means a final opinion of the suspension or DSC. Just one odd little data point.

I really do miss the vicious turn-in I was getting before the red springs were installed. At this point, I've spent a king's ransom on alignments and setups on a really nice Hunter alignment machine trying different things. I'm going to leave it like this for at least one oil change interval. I have a track day coming in about 6 weeks at R/A. We'll see how she goes.

I'm pretty sure I'll like the new rear stability at R/A. It's the front that I'm still not feeling right about. It doesn't exactly push, but it's just a bit vague somehow. Not the fault of DSC. I think the red springs may be part of it...maybe all this stuff is exposing a weakness on another part of the steering? Maybe I just need to drop the front ¼" or so? I still use all stock rubber Porsche bushings. Maybe they're worn after 80,000+ miles?

I don't want a race car. I just want a great feeling street car that has track competency rather than track dominance. I think I'm about there now, but the feel is still a little wrong in the front.

:cheers:
 

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got the DCS on my 2010 Boxster S for 2 weeks now.

first for the bad things:
1. the installation is very easy.... when you know what exactly to do.
the 1,200$ comes with zero instructions is IMHO not appropriate.
thankfully this article gives a good starting point:
DSC Suspension - Articles

so at the end it was very quick, maybe 15 minutes. second time it will be even quicker.

2. the DCS itself is a plastic box. looking at the picture i was sure it's a nice metal thing with and a heat think ribs. but no - it's a plastic.
but the OEM box is a plastic too. so i guess it's good enough. and weight saving too.

3. this blinking led thing is confusing. it takes at least 5 seconds to see and understand whether it blinks 2 times or 3 times.
i have suggested in the past to change this and it was agreed. but 6 weeks has past and no change yet. i hope eventually they will do it.

4. the indication of the PASM change on the instrument cluster display is gone. why???

now to the good things:
1. after engine turn off next time you turn it on the suspension stays in the same position. small thing but still nice.

2. at stiffest mode the roll is still there but feels like less. and right to left weight transfer feels faster.

3. at stiffest mode on track i could attack curbs. this is a big one.
previously this wasn't possible because this would upset the car way too much.
so big improvement here.

4. at softest setting the ride is definitely more absorbing and comfortable. but no way it's soft or bounces.
somehow it sucks hard bumps/dips better but still stable at "wavy" roads.

5. at softest setting in turns the car sticks like crazy.
it's subjective of course - but this feels really unreal.
my brain still didn't adjust to what the car can do now a the turns.

my bottom line - it's expensive toy but it does wonders.
comparing to aftermarket coilovers this is actually doesn't cost so much ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #119
So I take it that if the suspension is not in full stiff all the time, then the 3rd accelerometer should be connected properly on a 987.1 car?
If the suspension is not full stiff, you have no PASM errors on your dash and the car is driving nice you have connected everything properly.
 

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Hello,
thank you for the great job on the DSC Harris.
That sounds really promising. I'd like to try one in my 987.2 with stock PASM.
Could you ship before the end of this month?
Do you ship overseas with DHL or UPS?

Cayman greetings from Germany,
Jo



 
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