Planet-9 Porsche Forum banner

1 - 20 of 175 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Tesla is leading the automotive world in affordable, innovative speed. The dual motor Tesla design both rockets the car to 60 in 3.0 seconds and increases the effective range all for about $125k. There are now credible rumors that the new Audi S4 or RS4 will be a FWD gasoline engine with sub 200-horsepower electric motors driving the rear wheels. That would make for quite a sports car by simplifying the drivetrain design - it eliminates the need for a center diff, a rear diff, driveshaft. It also eliminates the need for a complicated transmission shape that can fit behind that center diff. Batteries and motors in the trunk would give Audi a 49/51 weight balance for the first time. If they used electric to drive the supercharger on the 3.0TFSI, it would further de-constrain the motor from the parasitic loss of that belt.

It's provoking enough that it got me thinking about the 981. Would you want a 981 with a dual motor setup out front and a flat 2.0 turbo driving the rear wheels?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,713 Posts
No thanks.

Even forgetting Tesla for a moment, I love that things like the BMW i8 and Porsche 918 exist, but they're not what I'm looking for in a roadster. I frankly don't want AWD.

Maybe in the future things will be so good that I'll want something like that, but not now. Now I want a naturally aspirated wonderfully emotional sounding engine driving the rear wheels of my roadster from right behind my head. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
No thanks.

Even forgetting Tesla for a moment, I love that things like the BMW i8 and Porsche 918 exist, but they're not what I'm looking for in a roadster. I frankly don't want AWD.

Maybe in the future things will be so good that I'll want something like that, but not now. Now I want a naturally aspirated wonderfully emotional sounding engine driving the rear wheels of my roadster from right behind my head. :D
You have an experiential bias that tells you AWD is bad because mechanical technology like quattro added 10% to the weight of the vehicle. Try to imagine your GTS doesn't make 190 whp on a dyno. When it makes 370 whp with a turbo setup it will easily overpower the rear wheels, unless a computer sends all of the excess power to torque heaven. All of that perfect Porsche balance goes away and you've got a headline ready to happen, like "27-Year-Old Man Buys $1.2 Million McLaren P1, Crashes It The Next Day".

I think a lot about AWD every time I pass a Cayman on track in my S4 like it's standing still.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
But I don't want to be the fastest guy on the track. I want to be the guy having the most fun. :D
That's a moving target, isn't it? You don't want to bring a cautious evolution of 1997's showroom car to a track day in 2020.
 
  • Like
Reactions: caymans417

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Totally agree. No dual motor and no hybrid for me.
I want pure driving fun. Don't care about track time or speed.
I want a perfectly balanced, NA mid-engine car, with a RWD, an aggressive exhaust note, and a real manual transmission.
That's why I got the roadster with a 6MT for driving enjoyment. :)
I am loving the 981BS - I wouldn't change a thing, well except maybe the paint quality....


No thanks.

Even forgetting Tesla for a moment, I love that things like the BMW i8 and Porsche 918 exist, but they're not what I'm looking for in a roadster. I frankly don't want AWD.

Maybe in the future things will be so good that I'll want something like that, but not now. Now I want a naturally aspirated wonderfully emotional sounding engine driving the rear wheels of my roadster from right behind my head. :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,261 Posts
I also think there's an issue regarding how much you want to be an early adopter of new technology. I'd rather someone else be the beta tester for a car I might consider driving, particularly when it's such a cutting edge design. On the other hand, I'm amazed at the high quality and performance of Elon's cars, especially when car companies ten times the size of Tesla can't make a starter switch that works the way it's supposed to.

When Car and Driver makes a Tesla one of their Ten Best, that represents a milestone to me. After reading the article last night, I told my wife 'we need to buy stock in Tesla.'

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,713 Posts
Incidentally... if we're going to discuss the technology... one of the things I love about the purely electric cars, and in particular Teslas, is the fact that the motor tech is pretty rock solid and it's only the batteries that are questionable. With that in mind, it will be easy as pie in the future to chuck out the batteries and replace them with much better ones in the same car.

Imagine being able to replace your gas tank and suddenly getting twice the mileage out of your car or even a big bump in power? :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
191 Posts
Well I have a question about this stuff..My wife Panamera is in the shop and they gave me the Panny E hybrid..Is there a reason that they use the 8 speed auto instead of the PDK?
The gear box sucks..Just wondering
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Well I have a question about this stuff..My wife Panamera is in the shop and they gave me the Panny E hybrid..Is there a reason that they use the 8 speed auto instead of the PDK?
The gear box sucks..Just wondering
It's because it's the 3.0TFSI from the S4/S5. They use a specially designed transmission with the front differential mated into it. Here's a picture of mine. Though this is a 6MT, you can see the unique sections in the pumpkin.

5vbc4.jpg
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
6,504 Posts
No, I would not. AWD is not what I'm looking in a roadster. And our 981 designed very efficient already. There is no driveshaft! :)

I have AWD turbo subaru with perfect symmetrical AWD... and it's nowhere near as fun to drive as 981S, so thanks, no.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steff BGTS

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So the consensus is we'd like to overload the rear tires with twice the power, rather than a highly efficient direct drive of the front wheels? I think what I'm proposing preserves the perfect balance of the car. Keep a light engine in the rear, and balance the car further with some weight up front. Plus all of the efficiency of regenerative braking.

This isn't science fiction. VW Group is doing it with Audi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,072 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,118 Posts
Would you want a 981 with a dual motor setup out front and a flat 2.0 turbo driving the rear wheels?
Nope. Don't like AWD or 4WD; prefer the steering feel (and propensity to oversteer) of a RWD car. Putting power to the wheels that steer, changes the nature of the driving experience. While the instant torque in the pure electrics is technically impressive, driving them is sanitized and non-tactile compared to a raucous ininternal combustion-powered car. The dual approach (a la 918) preserves the mechanical character of the driving experience but I frankly don't need or want another 200 horsepower over what's available in the S version of a 3,000 pound-ish Porsche.

Would a dual power (engine and motors) AWD Cayman put down faster lap times? Of course. Is kicking butt at the track in their street ride important to most Cayman owners, if it means changing the character and driving dynamics of the car? I can't answer for other people, but for me the answer is an unequivocal "no." I'm happy with the power and delivery characteristics in both my RWD Porsches, and wouldn't trade them for an AWD "sports car" of any description from any manufacturer.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
693 Posts
Well I have a question about this stuff..My wife Panamera is in the shop and they gave me the Panny E hybrid..Is there a reason that they use the 8 speed auto instead of the PDK?
The gear box sucks..Just wondering
I was thinking the same thing about my current Panny Hybrid loaner. Actually, the overall fun factor registers very low IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Nope. Don't like AWD or 4WD; prefer the steering feel (and propensity to oversteer) of a RWD car. Putting power to the wheels that steer, changes the nature of the driving experience. While the instant torque in the pure electrics is technically impressive, driving them is sanitized and non-tactile compared to a raucous ininternal combustion-powered car. The dual approach (a la 918) preserves the mechanical character of the driving experience but I frankly don't need or want another 200 horsepower over what's available in the S version of a 3,000 pound-ish Porsche.

Would a dual "motor" (technically an engine and motors) AWD Cayman put down faster lap times? Of course. Is kicking butt at the track in their street ride important to most Cayman owners, if it means changing the character and driving dynamics of the car? I can't answer for other people, but for me the answer is an unequivocal "no." I'm happy with the power and delivery characteristics in both my RWD Porsches, and wouldn't trade them for an AWD "sports car" of any description from any manufacturer.
Nothing about oversteer is cool, unless you're a 13 year old boy who likes BMW commercials (I was once). It's unsafe on the streets and it produces slower lap times at the track. Most of the top Nurburing times are held by AWD cars.

In a rear or mid engined car, the AWD systems are virtually imperceptible. Have you taken a 991-4S around a track?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,713 Posts
So the consensus is we'd like to overload the rear tires with twice the power, rather than a highly efficient direct drive of the front wheels? I think what I'm proposing preserves the perfect balance of the car. Keep a light engine in the rear, and balance the car further with some weight up front. Plus all of the efficiency of regenerative braking.

This isn't science fiction. VW Group is doing it with Audi.
Nope. I don't want a 660 hp Boxster either. I think what I'd really like is around a 400-450 hp Boxster. That's probably the sweet spot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,118 Posts
Nothing about oversteer is cool, unless you're a 13 year old boy who likes BMW commercials (I was once). It's unsafe on the streets and it produces slower lap times at the track. Most of the top Nurburing times are held by AWD cars.

In a rear or mid engined car, the AWD systems are virtually imperceptible. Have you taken a 991-4S around a track?
Thanks dad ;-) Actually, I owned and extensively tracked a 911 Turbo, and the difference between its steering feel and my GTS is dramatic. That most top Nurburgring times are posted by AWD cars is moot: I don't drive there. Clearly you are an AWD fan. I'm not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
966 Posts
Probably not. Dual-drivetrain vehicles seem ... inelegant to me. I’d go either pure gasoline or pure electric. Having both just seems like something is always unnecessary. This is regardless of the awd vs. rwd question and more of a personal preference instead of a practical matter. For the same reason, I’d rather have a Lotus Elise and a Land Rover Defender, instead of one single vehicle that tries to somehow combines the two.

On the practical side, I’m not sure a sports car is the ideal market for dual-drivetrain technology. Sports cars are driven primarily for fun and don’t have to be efficient or useful. SUV’s would seem to make a lot more sense – For one thing, they’re already heavy, so what’s a few hundred extra pounds of battery weight?
 
1 - 20 of 175 Posts
Top