Engine knock when in Normal mode

1246 Views 40 Replies 12 Participants Last post by jjrichar, 6 d ago

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · 21 d ago

I have recently noted a peculiarity; when in Normal mode in low RPM under load, the PDK is selecting relative high gears but still increase throttle load and the consequence is ignition knock that is quite easy to hear. When I go to Sport mode, no knock can be heard anywhere no matter the applied load.
I have seen several reports on this in this and other forums, but no solutions have really been given. I am thinking that a re-calibration of the PDK could provide a fix as the car seem to run higher gears for too long, adding unwanted load to the engine. I am running new 5/50 oil, new plugs and new components that usually can produce knocks if not maintained correctly. I have not checked any knock sensors though.
Any thoughts?

21 - 40 of 41 Posts

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #21 · 16 d ago

Yes, but that one regulates at higher RPM than around 2000ish and should do the same when in Sport mode. No - this is engine knock for sure. The funny thing is that the amount of soot build-up at the exhaust tips is pretty much zero when in Sport mode. I think emissions regulatory requirements have made Porsche make CPU/injection/timing alterations that really makes the engine run too lean in Normal mode, that over time can produce this result.

Phat Hippy

· #22 · 15 d ago

Check out the latest article at LNE on your engine oil theory.

dlbehrns

· #23 · 15 d ago

Platinum5150 said:
The latests PCA Tech Tactics touched on this.

The presenters strongly recommended Driven DI40.

At $17.00 a quart on Amazon that seems a bit obsessive

Reactions: 1

Phat Hippy

· #24 · 15 d ago

My car is worth it to me as an emotional support vehicle. Lol

ICNU

· #25 · 15 d ago

Phat Hippy said:
My car is worth it to me as an emotional support vehicle. Lol

Then badge it up!

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Support-Vehicle-inspiration-motivation/dp/B09N1TG2P2/ref=asc_df_B09N1TG2P2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647246533915&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8216018320701749330&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010802&hvtargid=pla-1967310585526&psc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3EUvxEJl5sP4u-jEubi1Dz_FDhWR0Sh1hcw-q7X8BH7G3Y-Js80pIxoC-r4QAvD_BwE

Reactions: 1

Phat Hippy

· #26 · 15 d ago

It's posted up in my garage on a picture frame. It's an outdoor sticker in black bought from copyright holder. I can't find a place on the car I can live with.

Reactions: 1

Phat Hippy

· #27 · 15 d ago

I'll send it tomorrow.

mm981cs

· #28 · 14 d ago

I use 5-40w Euro formula Mobil 1 - no issues, especially like the one you mentioned. NOTE - I just had the recall done which changed some PDK software parameters (and they pay you 250 bucks to get it ) and I must say, that normal mode shifts quicker than it did before, in fact all modes are better or at least more reactive, than befroe. I have not driven much in Sport Plus - however others her have commented that the update makes Sport Plus a little more usable when not at the track (and that mode was apparently the largest offender). So to have Porsche pay you and likely address your issue, why not get the recall done? Also switch to 5w-40 Euro or some other oil recommendation from the folks here, some like Castrol, some Mobil, some Shell, Liquid-Moly etc. Also totally agree to use as much Shell Gas as possible, then other top tier brands. I think those things will go a long way.

Phat Hippy

· #29 · 14 d ago

ICNU said:
Then badge it up!

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Support-Vehicle-inspiration-motivation/dp/B09N1TG2P2/ref=asc_df_B09N1TG2P2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647246533915&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8216018320701749330&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010802&hvtargid=pla-1967310585526&psc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3EUvxEJl5sP4u-jEubi1Dz_FDhWR0Sh1hcw-q7X8BH7G3Y-Js80pIxoC-r4QAvD_BwE

Tire Wheel Vehicle Car Motor vehicle

See less See more

Reactions: 2

ledbette

· #30 · 13 d ago

mm981cs said:
I use 5-40w Euro formula Mobil 1 - no issues, especially like the one you mentioned. NOTE - I just had the recall done which changed some PDK software parameters (and they pay you 250 bucks to get it ) and I must say, that normal mode shifts quicker than it did before, in fact all modes are better or at least more reactive, than befroe. I have not driven much in Sport Plus - however others her have commented that the update makes Sport Plus a little more usable when not at the track (and that mode was apparently the largest offender). So to have Porsche pay you and likely address your issue, why not get the recall done? Also switch to 5w-40 Euro or some other oil recommendation from the folks here, some like Castrol, some Mobil, some Shell, Liquid-Moly etc. Also totally agree to use as much Shell Gas as possible, then other top tier brands. I think those things will go a long way.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but any feedback with track use? My biggest concern with this update is that I don't want it to adversely affect the on-track behavior of Sport Plus.

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #31 · 8 d ago

jjrichar said:
I don't know of any other way to effectively eliminate the intake carbon build up other than a catch can. The AOS from what I've observed will always allow a certain amount of oil through when working correctly. Some, like you, seem to get the build up in an asymmetric way, which creates additional issues. I'm definitely not saying this is the cause of the pinging, but I think it's at least worth investigating.

I got the Provent 200 today, and it seems the pressure ventilation solution has changed (I checked other vendors selling the unit with same result). The pressure relief valve now sits at the top lid level, not at the out line position. The mechanism looks to be the same as yours, and a permanent seal can be administered through the use of a Gardena hose clip that actually clips right on as if made for the unit effectively sealing the membrane shut. Do you know if the unit has undergone improvements/changes based on user feedback?

jjrichar

· #32 · 8 d ago

jarlinge64 said:
I got the Provent 200 today, and it seems the pressure ventilation solution has changed (I checked other vendors selling the unit with same result). The pressure relief valve now sits at the top lid level, not at the out line position. The mechanism looks to be the same as yours, and a permanent seal can be administered through the use of a Gardena hose clip that actually clips right on as if made for the unit effectively sealing the membrane shut. Do you know if the unit has undergone improvements/changes based on user feedback?

I don't know of any feedback, but looking at images of the new unit, it seems like a logical change. Having the air flow bottom to top in the new design makes more sense to me than the top to bottom of the old. The old design has the oil collect in the same region as the outlet, which always made me feel a little uneasy, and is why I went to a lot of effort to design the oil drain so the unit couldn't fill and possibly suck into the air outlet.

There are a few things on the new unit that I think will make an install easier. The top looks narrower (easier to fit in the engine bay) and with the pressure valve now not sticking out the side, you shouldn't have the issue of interference with the engine wiring harness. I expect they may have had some feedback of how difficult it was to install due shape and size and they streamlined it. Honestly I look at the new one and wish this was on the market when I did the install.

I'd suggest testing the crankcase vacuum with the stock AOS before you install. Whilst to do accurately you will need a manometer, it's very easy to simply feel and listen at the oil fill port like I show in the video and then compare this to what you have post install and with the provent valve locked open.

The new unit has a pressure relief valve at the base, which looks to allow pressure relief to the outside. This is different to the old design, in which there was only a bypass valve on the top of the filter that allowed the filter to be bypassed if it was clogged. Does the new filter have a bypass valve? I'd be interested in some pictures if you get the chance.

See less See more

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #33 · 7 d ago

3

See less See more

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #34 · 7 d ago

From the bottom picture; the old pressure relief slot is blinded off in the new one.
The new valve at the top seems to function the same way as you discribed, the valve is much bigger now but can be sealed off through (in my case) a Gardena end-hose clip.
Not sure what you mean with the bypass valve in the filter. It doesn't seem to have that, but mine is not a Mann L5001-x version, but from online pictures of that one, I cannot see that even that one has that. But filter cleansing intervals have changed to 30' km or 500 running hrs (think you stated 50' km).

Overall I cannot see why this version should behave differently compared to yours as the basic functionality set-up seems to be the same. Not sure what the top mounted relief valve gives compared to yours apart from quicker pressure relief, but as we seal that one off - it will not matter anyway (for our use case). Installation size seems to be roughly the same??

jjrichar

· #35 · 7 d ago

2

jarlinge64 said:
From the bottom picture; the old pressure relief slot is blinded off in the new one.
The new valve at the top seems to function the same way as you discribed, the valve is much bigger now but can be sealed off through (in my case) a Gardena end-hose clip.
Not sure what you mean with the bypass valve in the filter. It doesn't seem to have that, but mine is not a Mann L5001-x version, but from online pictures of that one, I cannot see that even that one has that. But filter cleansing intervals have changed to 30' km or 500 running hrs (think you stated 50' km).

Overall I cannot see why this version should behave differently compared to yours as the basic functionality set-up seems to be the same. Not sure what the top mounted relief valve gives compared to yours apart from quicker pressure relief, but as we seal that one off - it will not matter anyway (for our use case). Installation size seems to be roughly the same??

That doesn't look like what I was expecting. It looks like an aftermarket version of the unit I installed. The mesh filter looks like the same shape as mine, but yours has a metal mesh filter. The OEM unit has a fibrous filter and has the pressure relief valve at the base of the filter. Maybe the photos are misleading, but the quality of manufacture of your units looks far poorer than the one I installed. The Mann and Hummel unit is very high quality and looks like something that Porsche would supply.

I've seen units like this from Amazon that seem to be a cheap copy. They call it a provent 200 but nowhere I can see do they say who the manufacturer is. They say it's made of ABS plastic, but the unit I installed looked to be made of glass reinforced plastic. Link to the Amazon sold unit here:
https://www.amazon.com/ProVent-Filt...SDN923/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=provent+200&sr=8-6

Images below of the updated provent 200 unit from the Mann and Hummel website.

Link here. Scroll down to find the install instructions, which is where the images below come from.
ProVent 100-300

See less See more

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #36 · 7 d ago

Yes - I think you are right. I kind of thought that could be the case when receiving the unit which was rather cheap compared to the Mann unit. That aside, the ProVent has clearly undergone LCI treatments and seems to be in version 2 product offering. I think I might opt for a Mann Hummel version, but I need to makse sure I get the latest iteration then and not the firt gen one from stock.

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #37 · 7 d ago

An update; I have ordered the Mann Hummel version from the UK. Will let you know just what it looks like once I get my hands on it. But a couple of questions:
1. It seems they've re-arranged the in- outlet of the can?? In the version you (and I) have, the inflow line sits on top, but with the new one it seems to be at the base? Am I mis-reading the schematics?
2. My engine compartment has the sound symposer line running on the right side of the motor (see below) just where you have mounted the catch can. Did you remove it first (permanently I would then assume), or did your car not have the device. In that case I will have to figure out a new set-up compared to your solution.

See less See more

jjrichar

· #38 · 7 d ago

jarlinge64 said:
An update; I have ordered the Mann Hummel version from the UK. Will let you know just what it looks like once I get my hands on it. But a couple of questions:
1. It seems they've re-arranged the in- outlet of the can?? In the version you (and I) have, the inflow line sits on top, but with the new one it seems to be at the base? Am I mis-reading the schematics?
2. My engine compartment has the sound symposer line running on the right side of the motor (see below) just where you have mounted the catch can. Did you remove it first (permanently I would then assume), or did your car not have the device. In that case I will have to figure out a new set-up compared to your solution. View attachment 289041

First thing I thought was, 'what's that thing?' I didn't even know it was something that was installed on these cars. Your comments in point 1 were what I was referring to above in the changes that had been made. The new unit looks like an improved design from what I can see.

jarlinge64

Discussion Starter · #39 · 6 d ago

I am pretty sure I can place the catch can on the same side after removing the symposer line. Never really understood the use case for that anyway.
Thx for the help so far. I will certainly come back to you once I start implementing the device.

mm981cs

· #40 · 6 d ago

ledbette said:
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but any feedback with track use? My biggest concern with this update is that I don't want it to adversely affect the on-track behavior of Sport Plus.

There are other threads where regular track users provide some feedback - I won't be on a track until August and only for a few laps, so I cannot compare for you. Do a search - the info is out there. My recollection is that it is virtually not an issue, once you are in those rev ranges and at those speeds. But don't take my word for it. Might feel a bit different but not adversely affect your actual performance I guess.

21 - 40 of 41 Posts