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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I have a 987.1 with a bad engine sitting in my garage. I have a few options and would like to hear your options. Mainly for people who have replaced or rebuilt engines. Which choice would you make if you were in this situation right now?

1) buy used 3.4, replace engine, sell it quick

2) sell it as is and move on to a DFI

3) rebuild it from the ground up. Even bore it out to a 3.6 or 3.8. (Please PM me with your engine builder)

If your experience is #3. Have any of you heard of replacing the oil pumps when rebuilding to a LN or DFI oil pumps?

i plan to track the car if I keep it so there isn't a point for me to just replace the engine and take my chances again.

Thanks all
 

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Personally I would go to VisionMotorsports for a 3.8L rebuild. Get some more power out of the engine, while having pretty solid parts inside the engine (improved IMS bearing, stronger pistons/rods etc). A properly rebuilt engine wouldn't necessarily be materially less reliable I would guess. The M97 engines are far from perfect, but neither are they bad platforms to start off.

Given how much I have spent on the rest of the car (both cosmetics and suspension related), I really don't feel like doing it all over again on a 987.2 car. So #3 is my vote.
 

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Cayman The Destroyer!
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A properly prepared Gen I engine is very reliable on the track. Give Dwain at Vision a call. He has prepped 3.4 -4.0L engines in stock or can rebuild yours.
 

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So I have a 987.1 with a bad engine sitting in my garage. I have a few options and would like to hear your options. Mainly for people who have replaced or rebuilt engines. Which choice would you make if you were in this situation right now?

1) buy used 3.4, replace engine, sell it quick

2) sell it as is and move on to a DFI

3) rebuild it from the ground up. Even bore it out to a 3.6 or 3.8. (Please PM me with your engine builder)

If your experience is #3. Have any of you heard of replacing the oil pumps when rebuilding to a LN or DFI oil pumps?

i plan to track the car if I keep it so there isn't a point for me to just replace the engine and take my chances again.

Thanks all
You are in Florida I would suggest talking with John at BGB Motorsports he can give you all the information on rebuilds and 3.8 swaps

Cman21
 

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You are in Florida I would suggest talking with John at BGB Motorsports he can give you all the information on rebuilds and 3.8 swaps

Cman21
I agree. I wish they could easily transplant my low mileage 325 hp 2014 3.4L CS engine in yours, where it would have a lot value. But they tell, me the 981 3.4 is to hard to retrofit into older 987.1s. I'd go for a 3.8 in a heartbeat, but am not interested in selling my almost new 3.4 back to Porsche for a $5.8k core charge.
 

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A properly prepared Gen I engine is very reliable on the track. Give Dwain at Vision a call. He has prepped 3.4 -4.0L engines in stock or can rebuild yours.
+1 on Dwain and Vision. We race a Vision built 3.8 without issue. John at BGB is also a good option given your location.

Alternatively, I may have a buyer for the car as is. Please send me a PM if your are interested in selling. the car.
 

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Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to call the shop. I have gone and prepared the following analysis for you via getting quotes for people that would provide either:

1.) OPTION #1: Remove your existing 3.4L M97 engine and swap it for another 3.4L EFI M97 motor. IF there is nothing wrong with your motor, it would cost us $18K to get a rebuilt 3.4L (BGB'S COST FOR THE ENGINE WITHOUT SHIPPING AND LABOR TO REMOVE AND REPLACE) AND the person needs to determine the core value of the engine that you are providing. IF there is anything wrong with the crank shaft of the core motor, they will start deducting value from the core. The cranks are near $5K and the engine core value from the dealership is $11K so you could potentially be approaching $25K for a rebuilt 3.4L M97 engine in stock form given that you were only getting $5K core value.
2.) OPTION #2: Tear apart your existing 3.4L M97 and rebuild it from the ground up with all new parts. I was quoted about $22K for this and again, it does not include labor to remove and install the motor nor does it include the cost to ship the motor.
3.) OPTION #3: Retire the existing 3.4L M97 engine and send it to the engine builder who will exchange it for a 3.8L EFI M97 engine with all built parts like rods, valves and all sorts of racey parts. The cost of this motor was $35K and again, your existing motor's core value would start at $11K and would be subject to reduction IF the parts on it are worthless. Like the others, this does not include any additional costs for things like upgraded oil delivery, oil pans, etc.

Everything listed above is M97, EFI based, 2006 - 2008 stuff.

The final option that i listed was an upgrade to a DFI 3.4L or 3.8L. That $17.5K engine receives full $11K core value from the dealership and that work order would include a new clutch, new axles, new gearbox, new engine with a 2 year warranty and a lightweight aluminum flywheel. That build was $35K. The $45K number i quoted was to upgrade further to a DFI 997.2 3.8L with upgraded Cargraphic headers, upgraded Wevo urethane engine/trans mounts and a few other things.

The problem with this entire analysis is that you're going to try and analyze spending anywhere from $20K to $45K on a car that you potentially already have $60K invested, before depreciation. Our upgrade to DFI and swap to 3.8L makes a lot of sense for someone looking to buy your car and turn it into a fire breathing 3.8L DFI track monster for $15K (existing car value with blown motor) plus $45K. For you, it looks and feels like having $100K in a 987.1; to us, it feels like the best option given that everything else costs $20K plus to have a reman motor from a private party without warranty.

Thanks for those that suggested Chris' calling us...we spoke earlier in the week. I hope this information helps. Cheers folks!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
John,

You have given me much to think about. The crazy thing is that I'm finding used low mileage DFI 3.4 to be less than EFI 3.4s.

So If im hearing (reading) you correctly,

option #3 (built 3.8 EFI swap) would be $24k in the best case scenario meaning my engine has minimal damage

switching to 3.4 DFI is $35K and getting $11k from the dealership? so $24k also?

bumping up to a 3.8 DFI would add $10k?...... oh the temptation....

Has all the kinks been worked out in switching to the DFI motor? would it require complete swapping out of wires and ECU?

My initial thoughts of selling the car is quickly fading because I know its not worth that much as is..

Thanks again John
 

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What is the expected damage to your current engine? That and your wrenching ability can have a bearing on which way to turn/run. Best of luck.
 

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My opinion? Get a pro to replace the engine or upgrade to 3.8 via BGB...or move on and get a new car. Honestly, unless you love it, get a new car as the benefits from a 981 or 991 might outweigh an engine.
 

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Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations built my engine to a 3.8L and I couldn't be happier. Jake has spent years studying the M96/M97 engines, so much, he wrote a book on the subject. Jake designed all the add-on parts from LN engineering which everyone else is using to build these engines. I saw a post of a dyno chart of a 3.8L upgrade with a flash and it didn't match my torque and had the same HP through 6000 RPMs. My car only has VarioCam and not plus and has stock mufflers with no flash.
 

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OPTION #3 Dwain and Vision rebuilt my 3.4L in the Fall of 2013. I've had ZERO problems since. I also added the Borla exhaust and Softronic Plenum/TB when I received the engine back. Dwain has many options on displacement, but BGB is in Florida and from what I've read here on P-9, he does outstanding work.
 

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So I have a 987.1 with a bad engine sitting in my garage. I have a few options and would like to hear your options. Mainly for people who have replaced or rebuilt engines. Which choice would you make if you were in this situation right now?

1) buy used 3.4, replace engine, sell it quick

2) sell it as is and move on to a DFI

3) rebuild it from the ground up. Even bore it out to a 3.6 or 3.8. (Please PM me with your engine builder)

If your experience is #3. Have any of you heard of replacing the oil pumps when rebuilding to a LN or DFI oil pumps?

i plan to track the car if I keep it so there isn't a point for me to just replace the engine and take my chances again.

Thanks all
Perhaps you should call this guy--- http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-chat/106928-end-cursed-cayman.html
 

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So an M97 can be replaced by a 9A1? What's involved in the conversion?
It can be done for about $30k. I think BGB Motorsports is offering a conversion package.
 

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I was faced with a similar issue last year. I chose to have Vision rebuild my engine and upgrade to 3.8L. I love the increased torque of the 3.8.
Had them add many improvements including IPD plenum, GT3 Oil Cooler, TTP Scavenger pump, Deep sump and pickups, Motorsports AOS and more. I no longer have any oil starvation or smoking problems.

I am super happy with my choice. Increased Torque, HP, and Reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I was faced with a similar issue last year. I chose to have Vision rebuild my engine and upgrade to 3.8L. I love the increased torque of the 3.8.
Had them add many improvements including IPD plenum, GT3 Oil Cooler, TTP Scavenger pump, Deep sump and pickups, Motorsports AOS and more. I no longer have any oil starvation or smoking problems.

I am super happy with my choice. Increased Torque, HP, and Reliability.
thanks for the replies and pm s so far. So for the people that had vision or someone rebuild to a 3.8, did you re flash? What program? Dyno? Any figures you care to share? Thanks again all.
 

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thanks for the replies and pm s so far. So for the people that had vision or someone rebuild to a 3.8, did you re flash? What program? Dyno? Any figures you care to share? Thanks again all.
We still run the FVD flash from my old 3.4. The cams, valves, etc. are identical so it works fine. We have tried a couple of other 3.8 specific programs and the old FVD flash is always better with smoother curves.

The output number will vary depending on whether you go 3.8 via stock 997 3.8 (bore and stroke) or just via bore (liners), whether the heads are decked or not, and the exhaust configuration. A 997 3.8 with decked heads and open exhaust will make about 350 to the wheels on a dyno jet. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks Krok,

I was specifically talking about M97 3.4s bored out to a 3.8L.
I'm thinking this may be the way to go since: EFI 3.8 stock are still vulnerable engines and without the right tune, you still can't get all the power out of them.
Otherwise, I'm trying to workout with John at BGB for a 3.8DFI x51 build out. May end up being too costly though (new axles, tranny, wires, etc).

It may end up being Vision to rebuild my engine and BGB to install and tune.....:dance:... the little gears in my head are squeaking..... Ill try to update.

Thanks to all the members who shared info and shop advice so far. :cheers:


We still run the FVD flash from my old 3.4. The cams, valves, etc. are identical so it works fine. We have tried a couple of other 3.8 specific programs and the old FVD flash is always better with smoother curves.

The output number will vary depending on whether you go 3.8 via stock 997 3.8 (bore and stroke) or just via bore (liners), whether the heads are decked or not, and the exhaust configuration. A 997 3.8 with decked heads and open exhaust will make about 350 to the wheels on a dyno jet. YMMV.
 

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Thanks Krok,

I was specifically talking about M97 3.4s bored out to a 3.8L.
I'm thinking this may be the way to go since: EFI 3.8 stock are still vulnerable engines and without the right tune, you still can't get all the power out of them.
Otherwise, I'm trying to workout with John at BGB for a 3.8DFI x51 build out. May end up being too costly though (new axles, tranny, wires, etc).

It may end up being Vision to rebuild my engine and BGB to install and tune.....:dance:... the little gears in my head are squeaking..... Ill try to update.

Thanks to all the members who shared info and shop advice so far. :cheers:
Call the shop. By the end of today I will have 3 paths for you to choose: rebuild your stock EFI 3.4L with a fresh short-block from Porsche, source you a built 3.8L/3.4L EFI engine or convince you to bite the bullet and go DFI so you can sleep at niught. I have even reached out to my banker to see if he would set up financing for EFI - DFI drivetrain overhauls so people don't have to shell out the cash up front. I'm working on it!

UPDATE:

OPTION A: We can source a reman short-block from Porsche for a customer cost of $10,721; they will give you core credit for your existing bottom end of $2874, which is still good. We charge labor @ $100 / hr and 14 hours to remove and replace a Porsche motor. Labor to remove and replace the cylinder heads and re-dress the motor will be another 10 hours. Option #1, the least expensive route if you want a fresh working EFI 3.4L motor in your car, will price out under $15K based on $10.7K for the crank case and short-block after core charges and $2.4K labor to swap the motor and re-use everything existing as far as mounts, axles, clutch, headers and cylinder heads. Keep in mind that you said you already have metal in the oil so we might have some additional labor to clean out everything but it would be minimal. None of this analysis assumes upgrades in the form of an oil pan with better baffles or a larger Air Oil Separator, which at this point should be mandatory. For purposes of analyzing everything though, you could in theory freshen your motor and have a car with resale potential.

OPTION B: Replace your 3.4L EFI engine with a built 3.4L/3.8L EFI engine for a budget in the $20Ks. We have to assume that you may not get full credit for your existing engine. If this is the preferred route, if we had to do it tomorrow we could either send/purchase the engine from Mike Bavaro at Bodymotion in New Jersey or Dwain at Vision in California. They seem to have a working rebuild program of complete motors from that era. I don't have a working relationship with anyone else building M97 3.4L motors.

OPTION C: Upgrade to DFI 3.4L and get a new reman engine from Porsche with a 2 year warranty, a new 6-speed 987.2 transmission, a lightweight aluminum flywheel, a new 987.2 clutch pressure plate and disc, new axles, new ECU and upgraded ECU flash for 3.4L 987.2s for $36K. Selling your existing 987.1 transmission, axles and clutch could produce another few thousand in cash back to you.

OPTION D: For an additional $10K you can have the same package as Option C but in the form of a 3.8L DFI engine with upgraded Cargraphic headers but we need more wiring bits and pieces.

Only the conversion to DFI gets you a fresh reman engine from Porsche with a 2 year warranty.

John
 
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