Are there any demos for Forza 3 or for Shift out yet? I know both games are being released in a couple of months. What's so funny was that the Gran Turismo 5 advocates were saying 2 years ago how it was going to blow Forza 2 out of the water and here we are 2 years later and still no GT5 on the market and now Forza 3 and Shift are coming out ahead of it. While I'm sure GT5 will sell some copies, I can almost hear the "thud" in terms of sales vs. forecast for it, such a shame if it had come out 2 years ago as promised it would have been in a better economy and likely would have been better than other driving games at the time, now it looks like Forza 3 and Shift will both be better than GT5.... I think someone missed the "time to market" lesson at Sony...