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Discussion Starter #321
All good...if it's done well. This wasn't, IMHO.
It would appear there are some who agree with you about it being dark. https://theweek.com/articles/838116/game-thrones-alienating-large-swaths-shows-fan-base ...

A whine

"... shot over 55 nights in Northern Ireland, it was especially important to have a
perfectly calibrated screen and black-out curtains, or risk losing two-thirds of the cinematographic minutiae. Under ideal conditions, the episode was beautifully — often even breathtakingly — lit. But the episode's lighting problems also illustrated the utter disregard the showrunners have for the medium in which they're working. To understand why Game of Thrones looks so terrible on your television, you need to know a bit about how TVs create the color black ..."

OK, so I thought about this and had no real issue watching it last night. Its always dark. My wife can't stand it - its dark. We have two larger TVs, one 60" from about 2015 and one from 2017, both 4K, but this is not a 4K show. I watched this on the older, big screen because the full stereo is there and watching a battle scene with subwoofer and surround sound is so much better than tiny TV speakers. The ground shakes and its like you are at the movies. I was good with it. Its always dark.

After reading your complaint, and that article, I decided to watch the ending again on the newer TV. This is hard to explain but the older TV, although larger, is so much sharper. Thats hard to explain but its about as sharp as HDTV is going to get. But the newer one had better color and light levels. The scene at the end was a LOT better lighting. So I went back to the larger screen and rewatched the ending again. Yup, its darker and the colors not as good. The newer TV did a much better job on the lighting. Both are calibrated with some free app. So I tried to ensure the settings were identical but you can't do that. The TVs are different. The best I can say is turn off the switch that
automatically adjusts the light level to the ambient light and don't let it do automatic black anything. Do not use standard settings. You need to do a custom setup with a calibration tool. There are free apps for that. But I have to say, the bigger, older TV is sharper. The newer smaller TV had better light levels.
 

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I watched this on a 65 inch OLED TV and it was still too dark. I understand the creative process but ultimately, it's a TV show and should have been shot for maximum enjoyment, not artistic merit. Anyway, 3 episodes left, hopefully they will be in daylight.



It would appear there are some who agree with you about it being dark. https://theweek.com/articles/838116/game-thrones-alienating-large-swaths-shows-fan-base ...

A whine

"... shot over 55 nights in Northern Ireland, it was especially important to have a
perfectly calibrated screen and black-out curtains, or risk losing two-thirds of the cinematographic minutiae. Under ideal conditions, the episode was beautifully — often even breathtakingly — lit. But the episode's lighting problems also illustrated the utter disregard the showrunners have for the medium in which they're working. To understand why Game of Thrones looks so terrible on your television, you need to know a bit about how TVs create the color black ..."

OK, so I thought about this and had no real issue watching it last night. Its always dark. My wife can't stand it - its dark. We have two larger TVs, one 60" from about 2015 and one from 2017, both 4K, but this is not a 4K show. I watched this on the older, big screen because the full stereo is there and watching a battle scene with subwoofer and surround sound is so much better than tiny TV speakers. The ground shakes and its like you are at the movies. I was good with it. Its always dark.

After reading your complaint, and that article, I decided to watch the ending again on the newer TV. This is hard to explain but the older TV, although larger, is so much sharper. Thats hard to explain but its about as sharp as HDTV is going to get. But the newer one had better color and light levels. The scene at the end was a LOT better lighting. So I went back to the larger screen and rewatched the ending again. Yup, its darker and the colors not as good. The newer TV did a much better job on the lighting. Both are calibrated with some free app. So I tried to ensure the settings were identical but you can't do that. The TVs are different. The best I can say is turn off the switch that
automatically adjusts the light level to the ambient light and don't let it do automatic black anything. Do not use standard settings. You need to do a custom setup with a calibration tool. There are free apps for that. But I have to say, the bigger, older TV is sharper. The newer smaller TV had better light levels.
 
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I watched this on a 65 inch OLED TV and it was still too dark. I understand the creative process but ultimately, it's a TV show and should have been shot for maximum enjoyment, not artistic merit. Anyway, 3 episodes left, hopefully they will be in daylight.
OLED here, too. I think a big part of the problem was bad encoding by HBO or the streaming provider I watched it on (Crave). The GoT creative and technical team should have known better.
 

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Discussion Starter #324
I watched this on a 65 inch OLED TV and it was still too dark. I understand the creative process but ultimately, it's a TV show and should have been shot for maximum enjoyment, not artistic merit. Anyway, 3 episodes left, hopefully they will be in daylight.
OLED here, too. I think a big part of the problem was bad encoding by HBO or the streaming provider I watched it on (Crave). The GoT creative and technical team should have known better.
I just listened to this criticism on a podcast where the content producer complained about the darkness on OLED. Their conclusion was banding due to the compression. If you're streaming it, the streaming isn't able to handle the shades of black.
 

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Discussion Starter #325
So it appears lots of people are whining about the darkness. The rebuttal from the people who made it, shot it, is in this article: https://news.avclub.com/was-game-of-thrones-the-long-night-too-dark-to-see-t-1834416256

The TL;DR is:

1. Calibrate your TV (many people just buy TVs and turn them on)

2. Its meant to be seen in the dark, like the movies. Turn the lights off.

3. Don't blame those who made it. Blame yourself or HBO for watching a stream and not cable. Streaming degrades quality.

and I get out of it "deal with it". Quote “I know it wasn’t too dark because I shot it,”.


 

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So it appears lots of people are whining about the darkness. The rebuttal from the people who made it, shot it, is in this article: https://news.avclub.com/was-game-of-thrones-the-long-night-too-dark-to-see-t-1834416256

The TL;DR is:

1. Calibrate your TV (many people just buy TVs and turn them on)

2. Its meant to be seen in the dark, like the movies. Turn the lights off.

3. Don't blame those who made it. Blame yourself or HBO for watching a stream and not cable. Streaming degrades quality.

and I get out of it "deal with it". Quote “I know it wasn’t too dark because I shot it,”.


A couple of problems with that.

1. Why the *$#@ do we have to "calibrate" TV's? I have used several calibration apps, but find they don't do a better job than my eye. I eventually went with "stock".
2. Cable vs streaming. - I have cable - they also compress, though the signal does seem a bit better than streams. I watched on a new 55" fairly high end TV with the lights off. It was evidently better than many, but still too dark.
3. No matter what the "artists" that made the decisions, it appears that a significant part of their audience was unhappy with the product as delivered. That is not success.
 

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So it appears lots of people are whining about the darkness. The rebuttal from the people who made it, shot it, is in this article: https://news.avclub.com/was-game-of-thrones-the-long-night-too-dark-to-see-t-1834416256

The TL;DR is:

1. Calibrate your TV (many people just buy TVs and turn them on)

2. Its meant to be seen in the dark, like the movies. Turn the lights off.

3. Don't blame those who made it. Blame yourself or HBO for watching a stream and not cable. Streaming degrades quality.

and I get out of it "deal with it". Quote “I know it wasn’t too dark because I shot it,”.

1) Positively ridiculous suggestion
2) Lights were off; our video room is ALWAYS dark. Didn't make a difference.
3) My company builds TV streaming TV channels and knows a bit about encoding (nubix.ca). A creative team needs to shoot content knowing at what data rates the service providers will encode, then test early rushes against that reality.

Bottom line? Episode director Miguel Sapochnik and cinematographer Fabian Wagner blew it. Instead of blaming users, HBO and the streamers, they would do well to just own it.
 
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1. TV was calibrated

2. Lights were off

3. FIOS cable not streaming

4. Still sucked - too dark


So it appears lots of people are whining about the darkness. The rebuttal from the people who made it, shot it, is in this article: https://news.avclub.com/was-game-of-thrones-the-long-night-too-dark-to-see-t-1834416256

The TL;DR is:

1. Calibrate your TV (many people just buy TVs and turn them on)

2. Its meant to be seen in the dark, like the movies. Turn the lights off.

3. Don't blame those who made it. Blame yourself or HBO for watching a stream and not cable. Streaming degrades quality.

and I get out of it "deal with it". Quote “I know it wasn’t too dark because I shot it,”.


 

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Discussion Starter #329
This episode has gotten a lot of criticism. I found that surprising

Technical Issues

One thing I heard is that the HBO streaming bit rate is 1/2 the Amazon stream. This is part of it. But the fiber (FIOS) should have no issue.

Unlike the fanatics who read every book then get disappointed in the TV, I started to watch this after the red wedding buying the stream at the right time and binge watching. My first impression was: Eww. WAY to dark, dirty, muddy and far to much gratuitous things not really necessary. But reality is, its like 1,000 AD. There are no lights. Fundamental premises are "The night is dark and full of terrors". How many times has that line been said? Its dark. Its meant to be dark. So instead of worrying about it, you get involved in the depth of characters. There are FAR too many characters all with their own story, and useless story lines that seemed like filler, like Dorne. What's with Dorne? Who cares? A summary of complaints

[spoiler2="GOT"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQe8j4Hlmw [/spoiler2]

But watch this scene in daylight. Forget about all the dark, dank scenes in rain storms and in candlelight. This is in the middle of the day. Notice that its always overcast? Look at the lighting, just a hint of sun, but still dark. And, of course, the night is dark and full of terrors.


Plot Issues

A lot of people don't like the episode because not enough people died. Or the directing, etc. Its a show, a movie. Its entertainment. IMO those who criticize this are way to invested. Its NOT REAL and there are too many characters.

[spoiler2="GOT"]

Some say the women have no "agency". I don't even know what that means. Who cares, its Medieval Times. Its how life was

Sam rolling around in the mud and lives, starts crying. So? thats Sam

Stupid people hide with the dead people. Of course they are going to become zombies. Why does everyone think these people are smart?

How did Jon learn to fly so fast? Really? Its a TV show, not a book.

Where's Jon's Dragon?


and on and on and on.

Why can't people just watch it, enjoy, and move on. Its ... FICTION.[/spoiler2]
 

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finally watched ep3 today.... i think that the darkness and limited visibility made us feel part of the action and as confused as the characters.
just enjoy it :)
 

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Discussion Starter #331
I've listened to some of the whining about this episode centered on two things, how dark it is and what happened.

1. For the darkness, I think eyeofthetiger is right. Its dark. Its night. There's a storm. Its reality. Just deal with it. Its exactly how the director wanted it.

2. The second whining concerns the plot. Some people don't like what happened. So and so should have done something else. Medieval experts think there would never be a battle like this.... blah blah blah. For them, I would think if they can do better, make your own show. If not, deal with it. Its FICTION. Its not MEANT to be reality. No one cares that the stars aren't right in the sky. Etc etc etc. Just relax, enjoy, and move on.
 

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I've listened to some of the whining about this episode centered on two things, how dark it is and what happened.

1. For the darkness, I think eyeofthetiger is right. Its dark. Its night. There's a storm. Its reality. Just deal with it. Its exactly how the director wanted it.

2. The second whining concerns the plot. Some people don't like what happened. So and so should have done something else. Medieval experts think there would never be a battle like this.... blah blah blah. For them, I would think if they can do better, make your own show. If not, deal with it. Its FICTION. Its not MEANT to be reality. No one cares that the stars aren't right in the sky. Etc etc etc. Just relax, enjoy, and move on.
1. Wrong. For many people it was considerably darker than intended by the director. Too much ambient light, miscalibrated tv, whatever, it doesn’t matter.

2. No issue, this story is NOT intended to and doesn’t mirror any particular period or obey all of our physical laws.

Mind you, that was a pretty daft battle plan. You don’t defend a fortress by sending cavalry into the darkness to meet a vastly larger force. Poor Dothraki!
 
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Discussion Starter #333
You don’t defend a fortress by sending cavalry into the darkness to meet a vastly larger force. Poor Dothraki!
Thats exactly what they do. They kill each other at weddings. They charge. Its what they do.

They are not cavalry from the civil war. They are ferocious let me kill them all hordes.
 

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Sorry, don't agree. I don't watch it because I think I'm part of the action, nor do I want to be part of the action. I watch it to enjoy it and it as too dark to enjoy. I don't want to be confused watching a fictional TV show, I want to watch it.



finally watched ep3 today.... i think that the darkness and limited visibility made us feel part of the action and as confused as the characters.
just enjoy it :)
 
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Discussion Starter #335
Lot of people are upset about this week too. Hate the plot. Hate the writing.

[spoiler2="GOT"] Why didn't Jon pet his wounded pet wolf when sending him off to live in the North? How mean [/spoiler2]

And then there's this. Its not what they see. Its the comments that are killer comments about the writing.

[spoiler2="GOT"] https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bl7vz7/didnt_know_they_had_a_starbucks_in_winterfell/ [/spoiler2]

Considering they had two years to get it right, that is very sloppy.
 

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The shark has been jumped. Brienne bawling and Daenerys moping through all but the last 45 seconds of the episode? What’s next, Clegane and Arya getting it on, Jon starting his own religious sect? The show’s creator’s have clearly checked out and are thinking about their next jobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #337
The shark has been jumped. Brienne bawling and Daenerys moping through all but the last 45 seconds of the episode? What’s next, Clegane and Arya getting it on, Jon starting his own religious sect? The show’s creator’s have clearly checked out and are thinking about their next jobs.
Yup, thats the word. They needed more time, more seasons, and just bailed. The one to watch is ...


[spoiler2="GOT"] Varys. He spoke of treason. [/spoiler2]
 

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Discussion Starter #338
Hundred of parents in 2018 have named their child Khalessi. 163 babies have been named Daenerys. Fast Forward. Its now 2049. Baby Khalessi, is 31 years old teaching second graders reading, writing, and arithmetic. I imagine the conversation something like this:

[spoiler2="GOT"]
Student: Mrs xyz, what does your first name mean?
Khaleesi: Well, my parents named me for a fictional character in a fantasy book about a young lady. She was going to name me Daenerys but kept spelling it wrong. Khaleesi was a title for Daenerys.

Student: What did Khaleesi do?
Khaleesi: She went bat crazy mad and mass murdered a million innocent people, burned them all to death for no valid reason

Student: :eek: But why would your parents name you for an evil, mass murderer?
Kahlessi: Because they were to impatient too wait until the end of the TV series to see how it turned out. You see, back in the day, society expected instant gratification.

Student: Wow, it must suck to be you.
Student: What's a TV series?
[/spoiler2]
 

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Last night's episode was such a give-up by the writers. Let's see, we have 6 episodes to kill off everyone and end this thing so we can get paid. Welp, got to episode 4 and we couldn't find a way to kill off everyone with a decent plot line, so let's just torch the whole thing in episode 5. GOT turned into a massive WOT - waste of time.
 
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Last night's episode was such a give-up by the writers. Let's see, we have 6 episodes to kill off everyone and end this thing so we can get paid. Welp, got to episode 4 and we couldn't find a way to kill off everyone with a decent plot line, so let's just torch the whole thing in episode 5. GOT turned into a massive WOT - waste of time.
Agreed. Lazy writing throughout, and characters performing personality u-turns. TV at it's best has turned to schlock. The creators should be ashamed, but have already moved on to other projects.
 
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