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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anybody install the GIAC flash on a 2009/10 Cayman S? I have used them in the past on forced induction cars and was very happy with their software. Not sure what kind of gains to expect from a NA motor. I really want the throttle remap and any additional torque would be great. Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach is a GIAC dealer and not too far from work. I would definitely take the care to them. Any opinions? Thanks in advance.
 

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Yeah GIAC was a sponsor here in our first year and I even had their flash on my 2006 S at one point. I don't remember for sure but I think it made around 6 or 7 hp gain, not as much as some other flashes like Softronic, EVO-MS, and others. I think they saw a lot of sales go to their competitors so they pulled out of sponsoring here and chose not to compete, I'm sorta surprised they even went to the effort to make a flash for the 2009+ models but I suppose they want to keep a full line-up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was looking at Evolution Motorsports catalog for 2009 Caymans. I was very impressed with what I read. It looks like they perform a lot of R&D before a product is released to the public. I think I will give their flash a try. They have a dealer about 45 minutes from my work. Just need to find a catback exhaust system to go with it.
 

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Had an interesting conversation with the regional rep. the other day.
He said if the car has a failure where they have to pull the DME and
the flash, or history of a flash, is discovered, whole car tagged and warranty voided.
The ECU controls so many of the systems that it's not just the powertrain that's voided.
Even though you may be able to attempt to flash the DME back to the stock file,
if you are unsuccessful or cause a DME problem, they'll see it in the binary.
You could attempt to use the magnusson-moss act, however, that would require money,
time and lawyers and you still might not win..
This local dealer, who is the most mod friendly in the area and installs
plenums, exhausts, pulleys etc. etc., even recommended against it on the new '09+ cars while under warranty.
After the warranty expires or you don't care about the risk, he said he'd then do it.
Ask the software vendor to cover your warranty if the flash is discovered somehow,
even after a potential return to the stock file. (I say potential due to the possibility of ECU damage or failure to take the stock file)
You'll hear crickets very quickly.
Just wanted you to know, coming from someone not biased by making money on the product,
what you're risking for what, 10-15hp?
If it's so safe, they can guarantee your warranty and cover it if Porsche voids it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You make a good point ccarver. At least with the Dinan flash I had on my 335, those was a supposed warranty through Dinan. I didn't think the dealers could see the flashes on these cars and that they were not that concerned about them especially since it's only adding 15hp like you said. The Dinan flash added something like 80 lb/ft of torque so of course BMW was concerned. I had my BMW flashed at the dealer so I figured I could always fall back on that. Maybe I should just stick to a catback exhaust. I have read that most dealers do not care about exhaust as long as you do not remove the manifolds or the factory catalytic converters.
 

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You are correct on all points as far as the regional rep. is concerned.
To be fair to Softronic etc., you may get away with a return to stock.
But you also run the risk of having issues with the Siemans ECU or having
an engine failure and being unable to get the ECU in a perfect pre-flash state
before letting Porsche "inspect" it. I also talked to the rep. about what we could do to our
cars without voiding the warranty. He basically said cat-back only. I've seen the dyno plots
(from more than one person) on all the exhausts and the Borla is the winner power/cost imho. Basically a real 20rwhp
with significant gains in the midrange too for under 2K, possibly around 1.5K. It is on the louder side but not obnoxious imho.
The rep. mentioned plenum/cats/headers etc. as all voiding the powertrain with the flash voiding the whole car. I'm with you regarding
the risk vs. 15hp.....if I blow the engine up, I want to call Porsche roadside, tell them to come get the car
(possibly at the off ramp down the highway from that noisy group of corners) and call me when it's done.....period.
Also, the power on the DFI 3.4 is pretty good from 4K-7.5K so not really as much of an issue as it might have been
with a Gen 1. Be looking out for some possible good deals on a Borla system in the next few weeks prob. in the News or Vendor sections.
I have no affiliation with Borla or any vendor, just aware of something possibly coming up.
 

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Hello All,


Just as a heads up ANY mod including the cat back exhaust can void the warranty. This includes even taking the car on the track occasionally for race or DE.. Track or presumed track tires and or set up would do the same and so on. The basic difference in the mods is the warranty failure and how it is presented to Porsche. Many of the Dealers do not report many of the mods in the VAL reports so they are not known. The VAL report that is done with the PIWIS and new style tester pulls certain information. Now should this info that is being automatically taken not show on it then Porsche doesn't usually fish for info from the Dealer. As an example a cat back exhaust would not show yet if Porsche asked or the Dealer told them then it may depending on their feelings to the warranty failure.

One of the problems that other companies have had with flashing the DFI cars is the failure to start after 10 or so times. This is from the way the car was flashed and what was flashed besides the map. Another is also some flashes leave a tag in the file even when written back. The DME's would only be pulled if it looks like they had been previously removed in which they are checked for tampering otherwise they are read out as usual with a VAL report.



Best Regards,
Scott Slauson
 

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Just would like to resolve some questions that a concerned potential customer might have.
Apologize for the length, but imho these need to be asked.

Just as a heads up ANY mod including the cat back exhaust can void the warranty. This includes even taking the car on the track occasionally for race or DE.. Track or presumed track tires and or set up would do the same and so on. The basic difference in the mods is the warranty failure and how it is presented to Porsche. Many of the Dealers do not report many of the mods in the VAL reports so they are not known. The VAL report that is done with the PIWIS and new style tester pulls certain information. Now should this info that is being automatically taken not show on it then Porsche doesn't usually fish for info from the Dealer. As an example a cat back exhaust would not show yet if Porsche asked or the Dealer told them then it may depending on their feelings to the warranty failure.
True. However, lets be specific. The point is that a complete car or powertrain void is very different from an individual item void.
The regional rep., and this was straight from his mouth to me, said they would not void the powertrain warranty for the rear muffler change.
They would however void the powertrain for a plenum/cat/header swap.
Obviously if you improperly install the muffler and a mount fails, they won't cover the mount failure.
It's the void of the entire powertrain/car that is troubling. And he said the powertrain warranty would stay in tact for the muffler only.
In this case, the ECU flash discovery was the void of the whole car.


Softronic said:
One of the problems that other companies have had with flashing the DFI cars is the failure to start after 10 or so times. This is from the way the car was flashed and what was flashed besides the map. Another is also some flashes leave a tag in the file even when written back. The DME's would only be pulled if it looks like they had been previously removed in which they are checked for tampering otherwise they are read out as usual with a VAL report.
You mention "other companies" have had failures with flashing the DFI Siemans DME.
So I'm curious as to why you also recommend not going back to stock with a Softronic flash on a DFI car?
Did you, or, will any Softronic customer, potentially have issues returning to stock with a DFI car also?

From the DFI thread:

Hello,

The new DFI software does not have to be flashed back to stock and can be left as is when installed.

Best Regards,
Scott Slauson
Hello,

Yes this is for ANY Softronic DFI flash. I do not recommend flashing back as it is not required.

Best,
Scott
You mentioned above that the DME is only pulled if they are checking for tampering.
My information is that, for any internal engine failure, they pull the DME to check for abuse/tampering.

So,

1. Is it not true that every DFI DME flash will potentially leave codes that have to be cleared by the Durametric? (see Question 4)

2. You are saying the PIWIS cannot see the DFI flash hence your recommendation to not return to stock.
What about if Porsche pulls the DME for an engine failure?
Wouldn't Porsche be able to see that the DME had non-factory information on it?
Wouldn't the binary code be different than factory?

3. If you did attempt to return the DFI DME to stock due to the above,
would there not be difficulty in returning the DME to a completely pre-flash
state (unrecognizable by Porsche under factory, not PIWIS, DME inspection)
if the engine had failed ie. you could not start the engine due to the engine failure
identifying if you had successfully flashed the DME and removed the proper codes?

4. With an engine failure, are there not expected codes also?
How would a customer intelligently and selectively know which codes
to remove from the DFI flash to stock and which codes to leave on accurately reflecting the engine failure?

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.
 

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As I stated ANY mod can void the warranty and this as per Porsche. While you spoke to a rep I also know and work with them and Porsche. A cat back system could be used as an item to void the powertrain warranty if they desired or other parts. The exhaust could be deemed as causing the engine to operate at non factory tolerances. The tolerances would be the increased HP and how it was achieved etc. This though as with most mods would never be an issue untill the powertrain warranty is in question such as a blown engine.

Flashing a car and clearing codes are two different things. A fault code can in fact be cleared and is not permanent in the DME. Simply disconnecting the battery clears all running parameters of a DME so once removed they are gone. When flashing via the port faults are generated just as with the factory PIWIS and can be cleared with either.

The customer does not have to flash the car back to stock every time they go to a Dealer. They can do so however it is not recommended. We are talking about two different things. The first being a total engine failure and every other visit to the Dealer for any other reason. Would you flash back for every oil change, Tire replacement, Lt bulb , squeak, rattle etc? No.

There are different ways to flash any car. The main removal or checking of the DME is to find out if it was bench flashed. This process requires the dis assembly of the unit and is detectable by eye in a DFI car. This then would tell Porsche that regardless of the file that was in the car it was in fact tampered with.

The failure rate of the DFI cars is extremely low so while possible unless abused not as likely as the gen 1 cars.


Best,
Scott
 

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CCarver, I sent you a PM.

Best,
Scott
 

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I replaced a BMW 135 with my CS. I love the Cayman but miss the power/Tq of the N54 engine. In stock form it was good enough for most ...100 HP gains were common with a few upgrades

It seems most owners purchased a "piggyback" tune over the flash for several reasons.
It was cheaper...it was 1/2 hour job to remove/replace....it put down more power and hundreds of tunes had been sold to the 3 series guys with few failures. Most of those could be traced back to user error.

All those parts could be had second hand at big $$ savings. Less than $2000.00 if you were not in a hurry.

If simular power gains were to be had with the NA engine of the Cayman I would be tempted...If hundreds of others had went before me with few problems....I would have it on the car now.

I don't think we will ever have those kind of gains with our Caymans without F/I.

The warranty is much more important to me on the P car...The DI motor is new and theres not alot of spare parts to be had. I think most guys could not feel 15 or 20 horsepower anyway...if the throttle sensitivity is the same.

For now I will pass for now on flashes/tunes. The DI motor is too new.
I do have a cat-back on the way:)
The only concern I have about the exhaust are the 2 cats that are going away. My service guy tells me it's "not a problem"

I bet the bean counters across the pond will disagree if it breaks something big. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I replaced a BMW 135 with my CS. I love the Cayman but miss the power/Tq of the N54 engine. In stock form it was good enough for most ...100 HP gains were common with a few upgrades

It seems most owners purchased a "piggyback" tune over the flash for several reasons.
It was cheaper...it was 1/2 hour job to remove/replace....it put down more power and hundreds of tunes had been sold to the 3 series guys with few failures. Most of those could be traced back to user error.

All those parts could be had second hand at big $$ savings. Less than $2000.00 if you were not in a hurry.

If simular power gains were to be had with the NA engine of the Cayman I would be tempted...If hundreds of others had went before me with few problems....I would have it on the car now.

I don't think we will ever have those kind of gains with our Caymans without F/I.

The warranty is much more important to me on the P car...The DI motor is new and theres not alot of spare parts to be had. I think most guys could not feel 15 or 20 horsepower anyway...if the throttle sensitivity is the same.

For now I will pass for now on flashes/tunes. The DI motor is too new.
I do have a cat-back on the way:)
The only concern I have about the exhaust are the 2 cats that are going away. My service guy tells me it's "not a problem"

I bet the bean counters across the pond will disagree if it breaks something big. :eek:
Which cat back did you order? I am still trying to decide.
 

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Couldn't agree more about the N54 trapper. I was running a JB3 and DCI on my 2007 335i plus I was pre 29.2 so I did not have to worry about any tuner codes. And we know that the N54 can safely handle increased boost and HP.

The Cayman on the other hand just like most non FI engines cannot easily make big HP gains. But I am finding out that sheer straight line speed is only part of the equation; handling with the Cayman is superior and more fun. Although replacing the runflats with PS2's on my 335i made a big difference.

I am having the new Remus exhaust installed this Tuesday so I will report back asap.

Interesting that there seems to be a fair number of former 335/135 owners here!

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I will do some more listening of the Remus system on Youtube. I know it's not the same as in person. Can anyone recommend a really good sound file with Remus exhaust installed on a new DFI 3.4?
 

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Starting today there should be some out. Mine is to arrive wednesday....I have a app. for install thursday morning,:taunt:

I don't think the dfi version was available before this week so most sounds will be the early model many are sounds of the smaller motor...still sounds sweet imho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Starting today there should be some out. Mine is to arrive wednesday....I have a app. for install thursday morning,:taunt:

I don't think the dfi version was available before this week so most sounds will be the early model many are sounds of the smaller motor...still sounds sweet imho.
Thanks for the info. Didn't realize it was just released. Which vendor did you buy from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Starting today there should be some out. Mine is to arrive wednesday....I have a app. for install thursday morning,:taunt:
Hey Trapper, how did the Remus exhaust install go? Definitely want to hear some sound clips of your car. I am ready to pull the trigger.
 
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