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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, I guess it can now be said that the Cayenne has won The 24 Hours of Daytona! This ought to shut up the folks who don't think the Cayenne is a real Porsche!
 

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Ye! This will probably force Porsche's hand into racing the Cayene;In nascar's truck series. Next thing you know there will be someone putting a Cayene V8 in a Cayman.
Cayman8 anyone?
 

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Well, it all started as a Volkswagen V8 used in the Tuareg. The announcers said several times that Porsche doesn't want to know about this DP car! And, of course as with all the Porsche pure racecars, it is mid-engined. Then, add insult to injury, a Mazda wankle beats the the 911s again. I'm sure it won't be a frequent re-occurance as the new Camaro will get more reliable and start winning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, it all started as a Volkswagen V8 used in the Tuareg. The announcers said several times that Porsche doesn't want to know about this DP car! And, of course as with all the Porsche pure racecars, it is mid-engined. Then, add insult to injury, a Mazda wankle beats the the 911s again. I'm sure it won't be a frequent re-occurance as the new Camaro will get more reliable and start winning.
Well, if it's any consolation, the rotary engine was invented by Felix Wankel, a german engineer. The GT race might have turned out differently had Labonte known where the fuel reset button was. :wall:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ye! This will probably force Porsche's hand into racing the Cayene;In nascar's truck series. Next thing you know there will be someone putting a Cayene V8 in a Cayman.
Cayman8 anyone?
That's not a bad idea! Will it fit? ;)
 

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Info about the V8:

This new 5.0L V8 unit, while not actually constructed by Porsche, is based on the V8 engine used in the Porsche Cayenne and modified by Lozano Bros. Porting in Texas.

Might want to check with Lozano Bros to see if they can stuff it into a Cayman! :)
 

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Well, if it's any consolation, the rotary engine was invented by Felix Wankel, a german engineer. The GT race might have turned out differently had Labonte known where the fuel reset button was. :wall:
True on all counts, but I don't need any consolation. I had an RX-8 and it was a very nice handling car, but a gas hog and just didn't produce anywhere near the thrill of my CS. Porsche is in need of consolation, however. To this point, they seemed determined to live and die by the 911. A great car, but technology marches on (or backward in this case since much of Porsche's glory was earned in mid-engined cars). The future 911 might better be a mid-engine V8 and leave the flat 6 to the Cayman/Boxster contingent. A future winning lineup might go from a mid-4 "356", to a mid-6 Cayman/Boxster, to the Panamera (Cayenne), GT coupe front V8, to the new Carrera mid-V8?
Anyway, the press I read all says Porsche wants nothing to do with DP Riley Porsche V8.
 

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Is it Porsche or VW that want nothing to do with it? I can understand as to why Porsche would not want to promote the vehicle. Many customers have alot of [email protected] dollars tied up in the 911 platform,But i would imagine that at some point a change will be coming.I hope that Porsche has the courage and willingness to invest in some of the experimental race teams..........
 

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Info about the V8:

This new 5.0L V8 unit, while not actually constructed by Porsche, is based on the V8 engine used in the Porsche Cayenne and modified by Lozano Bros. Porting in Texas.

Might want to check with Lozano Bros to see if they can stuff it into a Cayman! :)
The Lozano Brothers are engine builders only, as you probably know, so nothing to do with vehicles. They are good guys and made their name on American pushrod V6s and V8 in sports car racing for decades.

As for the rules - like all other brands, the (v8) displacement is limited (typically 5 liters), they are based on production blocks, heads, etc, - they are required to be converted to mechanical throttle linkage, compression, cam lift & duration, port size, runner size, etc are all prescribed. Output is supposed to be around 500 hp, but usually a bit more.

Lozano first built these type V8s for the 2008 season IIRC. Word in the paddock was that it really upset Porsche, so much so that not only did they not support it, they supposedly threatened to withdraw support even from DP teams running the flat sixes. I applaud Mike Lozano (and whoever financed him) for doing what needed to be done.

I would think that this will somewhat force Porsche to reconsider their stance. I mean you can't help but capitalize on winning this race. It's not like they'll leave it off their marketing books. Maybe it will start them towards opening their minds toward doing other obvious things that need to be done... (high-powered Caymans).

Re a Cayenne-powered Cayman - I know this sounds blasphemous - but I am pretty sure the Cayenne DOHC V8 is substaintially heavier (and physiclly larger, and has a higher CG) than say an LS-7 pushrod V8... could make a fun hill-climb car for sure.

Regards, Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
True on all counts, but I don't need any consolation. I had an RX-8 and it was a very nice handling car, but a gas hog and just didn't produce anywhere near the thrill of my CS. Porsche is in need of consolation, however. To this point, they seemed determined to live and die by the 911. A great car, but technology marches on (or backward in this case since much of Porsche's glory was earned in mid-engined cars). The future 911 might better be a mid-engine V8 and leave the flat 6 to the Cayman/Boxster contingent. A future winning lineup might go from a mid-4 "356", to a mid-6 Cayman/Boxster, to the Panamera (Cayenne), GT coupe front V8, to the new Carrera mid-V8?
Anyway, the press I read all says Porsche wants nothing to do with DP Riley Porsche V8.
I know that there are a good number of folks who think that Porsche needs to look to mid-engine placement for future 911's, and I am frequently one of those. But, for the sake of argument consider this... I also post a lot on "6speedonline". It is an interesting, mainly "Porsche" forum, because the moderators allow a good bit of insult and troll behavior before closing a thread, so you get some really heated arguments going, the best (most entertaining) being threads regarding the Nissan GTR vs. the 997TT. Anyway, there is a guy on that site who actually races a 997TT at various weekend events and by the accounts of others is very good. When folks start expressing the concern that Porsche is living in the past with the rear engine placement, he counters that all engine placements have benefits and problems, and that one is not necessarily better than the other. He points out that a great driver can actually exploit the rear engine placement of the 997 and use it to great advantage. I don't track Porsches so I obviously don't have anything to add, but it sounds as though Porsche may not want to kill rear engine placement just yet. Contrary to our intuition, the track 997's do seem to get faster and faster.
 

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The 911 is a great car and I have driven them since the 60's. I currently have a '09 C2S and enjoy it. I also have a Cayman and it is much easier to drive fast ( I'm talking courses that involve turns) While the rear engine is a nice idea, as displacements have grown to allow for more horsepower, likewise rear weight has increased and neutral handling has suffered. The 997 RSR's are great cars with fantastic brakes that allow them to go deeper in the corners, but the end is near as other makers are also building great cars. This years ALMS will tell the tale and unless Corvette, BMW and the "F" car tend to break the outstanding drivers of the RSRs will have more than they want in competition. Flip the engine in the 997 and go get them. Porsche is a winning tradition and it is time to continue that tradition by understanding that the future is now. Actually Dr. Porsche thought the mid-engine placement made the best race car.
 

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As i said, the 911 in its current configuration is a great car and one to be reckoned with on the track. I've been around racing since the days of Jim Kimberly and then watched Peter Gregg (from an SCCA student to great drives at Lime Rock, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Road America, et al) take on all comers in the 70's and rarely lose. And Hurly Haywood after him. 911s are great in the corners and in the wet since they can lay down their power earlier coming out of a corner. But, on balance, the mid-engined configuration wins as seen in the 917, 962, etc. But, for today, the 911 is Porsche's "cash cow" (behind the Cayenne,of course) and they won't give that up easily. My thing is I want Porsche to go on winning... I love my car and want to see the marque preserved. Even the elder elite like Vic Elford (whom I discussed this with personally) thinks the Cayman is the best Porsche sports car. It's not as if he knows nothing about driving, racing and winning. That said, I wouldn't turn down a Carrera S tomorrow or the next day. But the future will leave it behind I fear.
 

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......Flip the engine in the 997 and go get them. ....Actually Dr. Porsche thought the mid-engine placement made the best race car.
I'll add that in 1996, Porsche did just this, when they came out with the GT1. They flipped the engine around and water-cooled it. It was supposed to be production-based - so they also brought a street GT1. Caught us all off guard and kicked our butts. (And the way they looked at us before they did it was eerie).
 

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Although Porsche does not officially recognize the Cayenne based V8, internally and unoficially, Porsche in Atlanta did celebrate the victory at Daytona.
 

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I'll add that in 1996, Porsche did just this, when they came out with the GT1. They flipped the engine around and water-cooled it. It was supposed to be production-based - so they also brought a street GT1. Caught us all off guard and kicked our butts. (And the way they looked at us before they did it was eerie).
Talk about flipping the engine;We can go even further back, think Porsche 914-6.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'll add that in 1996, Porsche did just this, when they came out with the GT1. They flipped the engine around and water-cooled it. It was supposed to be production-based - so they also brought a street GT1. Caught us all off guard and kicked our butts. (And the way they looked at us before they did it was eerie).

When you say "kicked our butts", were you actually racing against the GT1?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Actually Dr. Porsche thought the mid-engine placement made the best race car.[/QUOTE]

Yep. The first Porsche was a "middie". Then they went and added that back seat. Maybe Mrs. Porsche put a little pressure on him to include the kiddies on those Sunday drives.:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
As i said, the 911 in its current configuration is a great car and one to be reckoned with on the track. I've been around racing since the days of Jim Kimberly and then watched Peter Gregg (from an SCCA student to great drives at Lime Rock, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Road America, et al) take on all comers in the 70's and rarely lose. And Hurly Haywood after him. 911s are great in the corners and in the wet since they can lay down their power earlier coming out of a corner. But, on balance, the mid-engined configuration wins as seen in the 917, 962, etc. But, for today, the 911 is Porsche's "cash cow" (behind the Cayenne,of course) and they won't give that up easily. My thing is I want Porsche to go on winning... I love my car and want to see the marque preserved. Even the elder elite like Vic Elford (whom I discussed this with personally) thinks the Cayman is the best Porsche sports car. It's not as if he knows nothing about driving, racing and winning. That said, I wouldn't turn down a Carrera S tomorrow or the next day. But the future will leave it behind I fear.
Speaking of Vic Elford, My friend took a picture of me standing in front of one of the 907's just before the 1968 24 Hours of Daytona. That is me at 14 standing in front of the car trying my best to look like Howdy Doodie. Recognize that particular car?
 

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Speaking of Vic Elford, My friend took a picture of me standing in front of one of the 907's just before the 1968 24 Hours of Daytona. That is me at 14 standing in front of the car trying my best to look like Howdy Doodie. Recognize that particular car?
If you're 14 in the picture, that means the car is a 1940 something racer, right?!;) If that's the case, it's pretty advanced for its time.:taunt:
 
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