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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Cayman GTS and am probably going to "trade up" to the just announced GT4. Although this isn't a 911, the reality is the questions I have are best answered by 996/997 GT3 owners, hence why I'm posting here. I will have to DD the GT4 for probably 6 to 7 years. Not much (I mostly rely on mass transit and remote work), but when the need arises it is the car I own. Afterwards it should be relegated to strictly a toy that I keep until I'm dead.

With that out of the way...

1. For those without a front-axle lift, how has that experience been?
My Cayman GTS (with the Sport Suspension) is 10mm higher than the GT4. The GT4 seems on par with 997 and 991 GT3s in terms of ground clearance. I've not had any issues scraping the front of the GTS, though I do hear the spoilers in front of the front wheels barely scrape as they deflect a wee bit. I realize that 10mm is going to matter in these scenarios and will have to adjust my habits accordingly. As a result, how has it been, both typically, and in your worst case? Are we looking at exhaust scraping, and constant destruction of brake cooling ducts? Will keeping thick, heavy duty rubber mats in the frunk "just in case" be as prudent a move as I expect it to be?

I hear that the OEM front splitters are cheap from Porsche (~100-$150), and that aftermarket splitters can be both more durable and cheaper. I'm considering them to be a "wear part" and expect to replace it often enough (probably annually). Does this reconcile with your experience?

2. Suspension wear. What have you been changing, at what intervals, and what costs?
There's a lot more metal on metal, and bits are going to be pricier. I'm aware of this, so my maintenance budget needs to increase accordingly. I'm fine with this, as long-term maintenance of the 3.8L in the GT4 shouldn't be anything exceptional (should be in-line with the Carrera S). Yet, what can I expect (specifics would be much appreciated)? Big thanks in advance for the responses.

3. For those that DD, how has comfort been?
This is my least concern. My Cayman GTS with the Sport Suspension is far and away the most comfortable car I've owned. I have no issues with it. Many years ago I owned and daily drove a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR when it wasn't at the track. It is probably without question the least comfortable car I've owned, but I never had an issue with it. I thought it was just fine and dandy.

I realize there's a lot more metal-on-metal in the GT3 and GT4. Porsche's suspension tuning also tends to be some of the best. Am I horribly wrong and will my world end, or will I be fine as I think I will? I'm still very much on the young side, and I don't expect the carbon fiber buckets to be a problem either.



Again, big thanks in advance for all the replies. It's very much appreciated as I'm probably getting my deposit in this weekend.
 

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Good thread. Looking forward to the replies.
 

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Mine's on the way, so I can't say, but there is a similar thread currently on rennlist 991 GT3 forum. Basically every GT3 owner is over there - probably not too many here. That said, I'll be happy to report my findings once I get mine in a couple weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Mine's on the way, so I can't say, but there is a similar thread currently on rennlist 991 GT3 forum. Basically every GT3 owner is over there - probably not too many here. That said, I'll be happy to report my findings once I get mine in a couple weeks.
Have a link to said thread?

EDIT: Think I found it. Asked there.

EDIT 2: I remember why I don't bother with Rennlist.
 

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I'll share thoughts from the 991 GT3 perspective, which may be similar to the GT4.

I have the lift and need it for my driveway. I use it around town but really not sure in some cases if it's needed. If I think it's at all possibly needed I push the button. If the GT4 had the option I would spec it. On other forums lots of GT3 drivers say they don't need it.

Suspension wear will be no different than a GTS unless tracked extensively and even then not sure what PAG will recommend. For the GT3 with centerlocks, the CL bolts, wheel bearings and hubs have to be replaced but the interval is long- 6000 track miles replace central bolts, and rear bearings/hubs, 12000 track miles replace front bearings, hubs. I'm hopeful these requirements go away with 5 bolt hubs. we'll see.

I think DD will be fine. The GT3 is quite comfortable in normal mode. If anything it's better than my Cayman R. The main complaint from GT3 owners that DD is the PDK S is a bit clunky in auto mode in stop and go traffic. It will buck on downshifts and is a little noisy. (easy to remedy by shifting in manual mode and pulling the paddles for neutral).
 

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1. For those without a front-axle lift, how has that experience been?

2. Suspension wear. What have you been changing, at what intervals, and what costs?

3. For those that DD, how has comfort been?

This is from a 997.2 view instead of a 991.. but..

1. I learned to drive at a 45. I have been driving lowered cars for a while. It is something that you just learn after a while right? Angled speed bumps, driveways... cringe at potholes... etc. Expect to change out the front lower lip, which reduces the clearance by another 1", almost every year.

2. Dude said it best, unless you are tracking your car constantly, it wont wear any different than any other daily driven car.

3. Unless you have an *** made for a Camry, then the comfort is just fine. The car is a nice and tight handling machine. It is NOT a Crown Vic, no cushy rides over pot hole infested streets. But, again, you get used to it. It's a trade off. But the cars are still quiet comfy. I am moved from a 986 to a 997.2. The difference in quality of the ride... much better on the 997.2
 

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Not a GT3 owner, but here is what I gathered from those who have one.

1. The lift thing is nice, but not a deal breaker for the 997.1 RS guys as the lip was meant to be a wear and tear item. The car's height adjustable during service/check up, so you could always raise it if you tend to drive around steeper ramps. Otherwise, just let it scrape.

2. Nothing odd other than regular wear and tear. It's not like your dampers only last 5000 miles, nor should you expect them to last 250,000miles without any work down.

3. This is entirely personal. Some people find a stock Cayman with standard suspension unbearable, while others are able to daily drive an RS 4.0 around town. The one and only thing I found somewhat important is that RS cars have weaker air conditioners. The compressors / pumps are smaller due to weight savings. So if Porsche did the same thing to the GT4 while you live in Arizona, then maybe that's a consideration. Otherwise, I honestly don't see why this car can't be used as a DD.
 

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Are you talking about a 997.2 GT3? The OP is discussing GT3 cars. Just curious.
No, but a C2S w/ GT3 Front Bumper and lip... I guess I should have been more specific in my response.
 

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No, but a C2S w/ GT3 Front Bumper and lip... I guess I should have been more specific in my response.
From the looks of it, the lowest part is just a black plastic piece. Probably a 300 USD piece that you could easily swap out if Porsche kept things the same. Just change it every few years if it breaks.

Honestly the 997.1 RS guys are able to drive one of these lips around for 3years pretty easily as daily drivers before the lips fall apart. In the mean time, just let the lip scrape. Really not a big deal if you ask me ...
 

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In the mean time, just let the lip scrape. Really not a big deal if you ask me ...
It might not sound like a big deal, and the lips are pretty much disposable in that at least the 911 one is about $200, but its the aggravation that goes with it. You need to order it (you don't think they actually keep these parts in stock do you? ;)), You have to get it installed, and most important, you have the aggravation of finding the time out to get the work done. So it might not be a large financial burden, but its still an aggravation.

I can't avoid scraping the bottom of a SPASM lip. There are many discussions on this among the 911 owners. Its easy to find the posts. I scraped mine just driving away from the dealer. After that, its about impossible not to. Parked next to a GT3, the GT3 is ~1.4" lower on the bottom of the lip. The axle lift might move it up a bit. A TT was much higher, but active aero, it was not an issue as the aero extends only at speed, not in your driveway. A cayman GTS front lip I measured was the same as the TT, except there is no active aero at speed. It was always that high. I also know overhang matters here at the 911 and 981 could have different overhangs so the angles could be different.

My point is, if you live with it day in, day out, it really gets old having to drive slowly angling in every driveway, some speed bumps, but basically any driveway entrance. It is an aggravation.

You also have to realize that there are some people in the far side of the curve who will drive a tank everyday and think it rides smooth or are willing to drive on nearly bald tires in the rain and think its fine, or drive on summer tires on snow and think nothing of it, and yet those are the same people who might be vocal. I won't drive in the Pirellis below 40 degrees. The cup tires aren't even supposed to be exposed to air below 20, ever, never mind be driven on them.

Just saying, its one thing to talk about things, its another to live with them day in, day out. A harsh suspension is no big deal. We all have different levels of tolerance. And weather is a regional thing. If you live in SoCal, lower TX, or FL, no big deal. You live in the snow belt, weather is a big deal, especially this winter. It's the "aggravation" items that can add up over time once the blush of ownership, the honeymoon period, is over.
 

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From the looks of it, the lowest part is just a black plastic piece. Probably a 300 USD piece that you could easily swap out if Porsche kept things the same. Just change it every few years if it breaks.

Honestly the 997.1 RS guys are able to drive one of these lips around for 3years pretty easily as daily drivers before the lips fall apart. In the mean time, just let the lip scrape. Really not a big deal if you ask me ...
Urah, its pretty cheap considering its an OEM part. Suncoast has them on hand usually.

I keep mine unpainted. Its scrapped up more on the front and top a little. I scape more from touching parking blocks than scrapes.
 

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It might not sound like a big deal, and the lips are pretty much disposable in that at least the 911 one is about $200, but its the aggravation that goes with it. You need to order it (you don't think they actually keep these parts in stock do you? ;)), You have to get it installed, and most important, you have the aggravation of finding the time out to get the work done. So it might not be a large financial burden, but its still an aggravation.

I can't avoid scraping the bottom of a SPASM lip. There are many discussions on this among the 911 owners. Its easy to find the posts. I scraped mine just driving away from the dealer. After that, its about impossible not to. Parked next to a GT3, the GT3 is ~1.4" lower on the bottom of the lip. The axle lift might move it up a bit. A TT was much higher, but active aero, it was not an issue as the aero extends only at speed, not in your driveway. A cayman GTS front lip I measured was the same as the TT, except there is no active aero at speed. It was always that high. I also know overhang matters here at the 911 and 981 could have different overhangs so the angles could be different.

My point is, if you live with it day in, day out, it really gets old having to drive slowly angling in every driveway, some speed bumps, but basically any driveway entrance. It is an aggravation.

You also have to realize that there are some people in the far side of the curve who will drive a tank everyday and think it rides smooth or are willing to drive on nearly bald tires in the rain and think its fine, or drive on summer tires on snow and think nothing of it, and yet those are the same people who might be vocal. I won't drive in the Pirellis below 40 degrees. The cup tires aren't even supposed to be exposed to air below 20, ever, never mind be driven on them.

Just saying, its one thing to talk about things, its another to live with them day in, day out. A harsh suspension is no big deal. We all have different levels of tolerance. And weather is a regional thing. If you live in SoCal, lower TX, or FL, no big deal. You live in the snow belt, weather is a big deal, especially this winter. It's the "aggravation" items that can add up over time once the blush of ownership, the honeymoon period, is over.
Yup, that's the problem with the lip on 911 actually. A lot of places don't keep stock of these things, and it's a bit of a pain to deal with the wait etc. I guess people in where I live are kinda lucky as the distributor for parts always keeps 1 or 2 around as far as I know.

Anyway, I let my car's front lip scrape. I don't really do the 45 degree angle thing, as the ramps won't allow me to do it. I have the factory aero kit on my 987.1 with the lip sticking out and car lowered about 23mm. As long as the lip isn't slamming into things, I'm sure it can take some scrapes here and there. I take care of my car (don't slam the door, cover bolster when entering the car, be gentle with switches, keep the alcantara clean etc) but I don't lose sleep if the front lip scrapes. I figured this is a car, and some things just gotta "let it go".

That said, it really is down to personal thing as you mentioned about the DD-ability. I see some guys driving their Lotuses around in suits, and said the cars are totally fine for daily drives. And then I have friends who drive a bone stock Boxster and claims it's too harsh to drive to work.
 

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I am on the same page, almost. I keep the lip black and unpainted, so its a no brainer to install. No real need to go to the dealer for 2 screws and a yank.

I do the yanking myself, unless my wife is available.
 
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