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The is the first car I'll be purchasing (hopefully) that I am considering PCCBs on. Admittedly, the car will see only about 10-12 track days per year, so not sure its worth the $. In the past I simply swapped to ceramic pads and replaced the break fluid. Any advice/thoughts?
 

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PCCB's are somewhat of a joke in my mind. When they first came out they were promoted as the ultimate track- brake set up. I had the first gen on a GT2 in less than 1000 track miles and they were shot. $13,000 for a new set of fronts. There were actually guys that tried to start a class action law suit . Now they are the third gen and there better, what i hear good for about 12 days. The real benifit is they are 30mm larger than the steels and less unsprung weight. What most guys do now is take them off and run same size steel rotors . When they sell the car they put them back on. The GT4 steel rotors are 380mm (15") save your money unless you just want the bling. In the GT3 market the PCCB cars are harder to sell to anyone that wants to track the car. carl
 

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The GT4 with the stock GT3 steel brakes are going to be fine performance-wise due to the lighter weight of the GT4. The disadvantages are listed above. The two advantages I can come up with are:

1. Less unsprung weight at the corners. How this translates to steering feel and performance, I'm not qualified to answer.

2. Brake dust in minimal to non-existent.
 

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The GT4 with the stock GT3 steel brakes are going to be fine performance-wise due to the lighter weight of the GT4. The disadvantages are listed above. The two advantages I can come up with are:

1. Less unsprung weight at the corners. How this translates to steering feel and performance, I'm not qualified to answer.

2. Brake dust in minimal to non-existent.
When i had the GT2 i swtiched to steels same dia. . Couldn't notice a difference in feel. $8K for less dust is hard for most to justify. carl
 

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you know porsche will not cover your pccd discs.. if they found out you tracked it.. its So stupid, we built a track car but we are not covering anything on it if its tracked..

btw. each disc is 6k per corner on 991.. closer to seven.. if you mess it up. its a 15k service bill on one axel..

Lemon
 

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carl44 pretty much summed it up. If you do a cost-benefit analysis of PCCBs, you'll never come out ahead. Dealer and OEM part pricing here, but a set of rotors (front and rear) for a 997.2 GT2 is ~$2,000 for steels, but $20,000 for PCCBs.

With BMW M cars, Corvettes and other higher-volume vehicles making carbon ceramic rotors more common they may become a more realistic option in the future, but we're maybe talking a decade from now, not the current situation. There is benefit to PCCB over sustained use, but it's not worth a brake job costing as much as a very well-equipped economy car. I'm curious as to who even specs them any more -- I've had many salesman at many dealers steer me away from even the idea of it.
 

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Well my PCCBs' are fantastic.
60,000 kms, 4 years of track work and they still look like new. Still runing the original pads!
I think the rotors will last longer than the car ever will.
I dont get it...
 

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When i had the GT2 i swtiched to steels same dia. . Couldn't notice a difference in feel. $8K for less dust is hard for most to justify. carl
Thanks for the reality check on the weight difference.

As for the brake dust, we know there are some real particular folks out there. Just had to present all the facts. :hilarious:
 

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I'm curious as to who even specs them any more .
Pete is right. Dust is an issue. The answer is bling, dust, and dealers for stock cars. I talked to a new 991GT3 owner why PCCB and the answer was clearly no brake dust. I asked about the $20K cost and the answer was clear "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it". He wasn't joking. The price of consumables was the price of doing business and many of those guys could care less about $20K in rotors when they got a 458 and Aston in the garage too. Suggest you read this on the cost of consumables on GT3 per day. I would believe the guys who do this.

As to dealer cars, I see them all the time at the dealer. More options, bigger profit. As to bling. Well its bling.
 

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The problem is on resale. Anybody that knows anything doesn't want to ceramics because of the high replacement cost and lack of durability. People that don't know anything don't want to pay extra because they don't know what they are. It's the proverbial catch 22.
 

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I have PCCBs on my 981 Boxster S... I am worried about premature wear, but I thought I would give them a try. If they start showing signs of accelerated wear, I could switch to 350mm iron rotors and still enjoy use of larger calipers and master cylinder etc.

I've also been looking into restoring PCCBs:
Refurbishment - SICOM ceramic brakedisc refurbishment
This looks interesting and cost effective but there are like zero user reviews this far.

Or alternatively, check out Surface Transforms carbon rotors. They manufacture for Movit, Alcon CCX and others. These rotors supposedly don't suffer the premature wear issues of PCCBs and can even be skimmed. Just saying there are options out there.

That said, for the GT4, because you are already getting big calipers with the regular brakes, I probably also wouldn't spec PCCBs. There is also a much wider array of track pads for regular rotors (vs. PCCBs).
 

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Well my PCCBs' are fantastic.
60,000 kms, 4 years of track work and they still look like new. Still runing the original pads!
I think the rotors will last longer than the car ever will.
I dont get it...
I have to ask,how often do you track your car per year? And what run group are you in? I have not heard of anyone in an advanced group that has had the same experience with PCCB's as you have stated.
 

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Pete is right. Dust is an issue. The answer is bling, dust, and dealers for stock cars. I talked to a new 991GT3 owner why PCCB and the answer was clearly no brake dust. I asked about the $20K cost and the answer was clear "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it". He wasn't joking. The price of consumables was the price of doing business and many of those guys could care less about $20K in rotors when they got a 458 and Aston in the garage too. Suggest you read this on the cost of consumables on GT3 per day. I would believe the guys who do this.

As to dealer cars, I see them all the time at the dealer. More options, bigger profit. As to bling. Well its bling.
They don't care b/c most of them will never track their cars. Most are weekend warriors and not daily drivers. They know they will never need to swapped them out during their ownership.
 

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They don't care b/c most of them will never track their cars. Most are weekend warriors and not daily drivers. They know they will never need to swapped them out during their ownership.
You mean the rich guys that own multiple expensive sports cars? Agreed. That was exactly the point. Need new rotors? Meh, get a new car. Some people buy 5 or 6 cars a YEAR! Hard for me to imagine.
 

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380mm 6pot steel brake is more than sufficient for a car with 390-400hp.

Well my PCCBs' are fantastic.
60,000 kms, 4 years of track work and they still look like new. Still runing the original pads!
I think the rotors will last longer than the car ever will.
I dont get it...
I have to ask,how often do you track your car per year? And what run group are you in? I have not heard of anyone in an advanced group that has had the same experience with PCCB's as you have stated.
+1. I ran in advanced group with my GT3RS with PCCB and the front pads were down to 2mm after 10 track days
 

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We have PCCB on the Cayman S, so far they've been behaving themselves. We've only done a few track days so far, the rotors are showing no measurable wear. The rotors are the limiting factor, as they cost $7k+ per axle to replace. No measurable wear is not necessarily comforting as they have barely measurable wear material available. I need to take them off and start weighing them, they also have a spec for wear by weight and its something like 100g (front) and 50g (rear).

The pads wear about 1mm for a track day, so I should be able to get 4-6 days out of a set, that's not too bad.

The best thing about the PCCBs is the lack of dust. After living with very dusty (but very functional) brakes for years, its refreshing to not have dirty wheels all the time.

For the GT4 the main problem I can see with the PCCB is you probably can't fit 19" wheels over them (400mm discs). That limits your tire choice a lot, so in my theoretical GT4 build I left them off. That was when a GT4 became cheaper than we paid for the Cayman S.

For a totally silly consideration, there's always the colour. The yellow PCCBs against a Sapphire Blue Cayman look great. If I went for a Yellow GT4, red brakes would look better.
 

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Ha. Well that was a resounding "no" from 14/15 people. Thanks for the advice!
There is a strong current of opinion against PCCBs here, if you really want them you have to swim against that current. A lot of the prejudice seems to be based on old data, so I went ahead and got the PCCBs (on our Cayman S) partly in an effort to get some up to date data. If I hadn't got them, I'd been forever wondering what I was missing.

I now have two plan Bs in case the PCCBs don't work out. The first alternative is to use steel rotors. There are plenty of them available to replace the ceramic ones. The second alternative is to use MoveIt Brakes. I've been told they have replacement rotors which are unconditionally guaranteed, I haven't confirmed this yet.
 
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