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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking at the Porsche website, I see the following numbers:

GT4 0-60 in 4.2 sec
GTS 0-60 in 4.3 sec (sport+) 4.6 MT
911 CS 0-60 in 3.9 sec (sport+) 4.3 MT

It would seem that, for all the fuss about the GT4, it is not significantly faster than the GTS with PDK and only marginally faster that the GTS with MT. I know that Porsche is conservative with their numbers but that would be true across the board, so, all things being equal, why the fuss? It would seem to me that a GTS with PDK would deliver similar performance to the GT4 and is cheaper and better equipped and, perhaps, a better road car. Are the GT3 bits worth the tariff for the GT4? It's an interesting question to me and I would love to hear your opinions on this issue.
 

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I think acceleration numbers for the PDK are a bit misleading because they are achieved using launch control and not really indicative of overall performance, particularly not in the handling department. The GT4 should be significantly faster in actual driving than a GTS where the straight-line benefits of launch control are more-or-less nullified. If you notice, the GT4 is faster to 60 than the 911S with MT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would agree that the handling should be improved with the improved GT3 suspension parts and the difference on a track might be a better indication but what about day to day driving? Is the feeling here that the GT4 will be that much better as a road car or are people clamoring for the track benefits?



I think acceleration numbers for the PDK are a bit misleading because they are achieved using launch control and not really indicative of overall performance, particularly not in the handling department. The GT4 should be significantly faster in actual driving than a GTS where the straight-line benefits of launch control are more-or-less nullified.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That and added torque may be the biggest benefits of the car. I'm still liking the GTS as a DD but that's just me.



I personally think the suspension changes are the much more interesting part of the GT4.
 

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I would agree that the handling should be improved with the improved GT3 suspension parts and the difference on a track might be a better indication but what about day to day driving? Is the feeling here that the GT4 will be that much better as a road car or are people clamoring for the track benefits?
So I guess the question from your perspective is how you define "similar performance." All of these cars are very high performance vehicles and on paper the differences seem small (we're talking a few tenths of a second here), so whether or not that's worth it to you is purely subjective. I can't speak from personal experience in regards to the difference between a 981GTS and 911S or GT4 but there are plenty of people that went from a 981S to a 911S (997 or 991) and generally the opinion is the 911 feels significantly faster. The probably because it's a substantial move up in torque and that will increase the "feeling" of power even if a PDK 981 can close the gap in a drag race against the MT-equipped, more powerful car.

In day-to-day driving I believe the GT4's extra power will feel even more pronounced. The "fuss" for the GT4 is the total package - improved acceleration, handling, looks (if you want something "racier" than a GTS). Plus the price is right - $84k - it's less than $10k more than a GTS, which is bargain compared to Porsche's other hi-performance offerings. The 991S starts at ~$100k and probably doesn't match the GT4 in performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have a 991CS and am seriously contemplating a Cayman GTS as a replacement. I ask these questions because I'm concerned about the subjective feel of the power of the car. The GT4 is not my style and is not in the mix but, having driven a Cayman S, it felt fine on the street. I'm just worried that I will miss the torque of the 991 and the instant acceleration that it offers.



So I guess the question from your perspective is how you define "similar performance." All of these cars are very high performance vehicles and on paper the differences seem small (we're talking a few tenths of a second here), so whether or not that's worth it to you is purely subjective. I can't speak from personal experience in regards to the difference between a 981GTS and 911S or GT4 but there are plenty of people that went from a 981S to a 911S (997 or 991) and generally the opinion is the 911 feels significantly faster. The probably because it's a substantial move up in torque and that will increase the "feeling" of power even if a PDK 981 can close the gap in a drag race against the MT-equipped, more powerful car.

In day-to-day driving I believe the GT4's extra power will feel even more pronounced. The "fuss" for the GT4 is the total package - improved acceleration, handling, looks (if you want something "racier" than a GTS). Plus the price is right - $84k - it's less than $10k more than a GTS, which is bargain compared to Porsche's other hi-performance offerings. The 991S starts at ~$100k and probably doesn't match the GT4 in performance.
 

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0 - 60 acceleration is a bit misleading for these cars. After all, my puny base 981 with SC and PDK is just a few ticks slower to 60 than a base 911 MT!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I agree, however, it is one of the few measurable parameters I can find. Top speed is meaningless to me, I guess 1/4 mile acceleration is okay but not many ways to measure actual feel of driving the car. I was hoping for some input from current GTS drivers.




0 - 60 acceleration is a bit misleading for these cars. After all, my puny base 981 with SC and PDK is just a few ticks slower to 60 than a base 911 MT!
 

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The more cars I go thru, the more I am tuning into appreciating a car based on "feel" and "overall experience" vs numbers. Throw all the numbers out the window, get in the car and drive - what speaks to you. Listen to that and make your decision. There are always tradeoffs, which are most important to you?

Sorry but I don't think I would like to Daily Drive the GT4 (or a GT3) - worrying about scraping, rear wing, pronounced side scoops - not my style for everyday. If I bought it as a spare car and/or mostly for the track - sure, but that is a hefty price tag for a purpose car IMO.

GT4 is the shiny red button right now because it hits emotionally and on paper. Will it be awesome to drive? you bet...will one want to drive it everyday for 10 years - you'll need to decide for yourself.

I think the GTS hits more buttons for me than the GT4 (even if I could actually get one)

just my 2 cents
 

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It would seem that, for all the fuss about the GT4, it is not significantly faster than the GTS with PDK and only marginally faster that the GTS with MT. I know that Porsche is conservative with their numbers but that would be true across the board, so, all things being equal, why the fuss?
The fundamental issue is track use. The GT4 is meant as a track toy, not a street car. I "think" it comes with a track warranty. The real issue is this, and it can be found on any Pcar discussion. If you take a Cayman to the track and get oil starvation, or whatever, "in general" its your dime. I've read this over and over again, where people expect the street cars to take the abuse. They can't. It takes money to do that. They are street cars, not race cars.

The GT4 is a turnkey track toy solution without being a racing solution. End of sentence.

Buy it and track it all day. Change the consumables, wash, rinse, repeat.

You are done.

That is the answer.

That all said, a Cup Car is much different, particularly in suspension and gearbox, than a GT3. I'm sure the same thing would be true for a GT4 Cup car.
 

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What about the big rotors, calipers and large sticky tires ? 90% of people are better off with less power and having better braking and sticky tires ! How fast you get to a corner is only a factor if you can slow down fast enough to keep the wheels from scrubing or breaking lose.
If your plan is to drag race than yes no big differance between the GTS and THE GT4. As far as a DD I would go Cs over the GTS, less money for almost the same car. I would go GT4 over GTS as you might as well spend the extra $$ and get superiority IMHO.

I had a C2s that I got rid of for my Cs ( with X73 a must have ) no regrets .
 

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I have a different perspective from the discussion above. This car is a paradigm shift for Porsche and represents real change which is why I and many others (IMHO) are excited about it.

Porsche isn't about straight line acceleration. It's about the first turn. The mid-engine platform is about the second, third and fourth turn.

Porsche fielded a car that will crush a base 911 on the straightaway and beat a 911s on a track for less money. It also looks way cooler. :)
 

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I think the GTS hits more buttons for me than the GT4 (even if I could actually get one)
I think this is what it really comes down to.

Some people will prefer the GTS. Personally the GTS is too luxury-oriented for me; I’m more drawn to the GT4. Also, because I don’t value the GTS options very much, I feel it would not be a great return for my money. The GT4, on the other hand, feels like it’s a good deal because I value what it brings to the 981 platform.
:cheers:
 
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Porsche fielded a car that will ... beat a 911s on a track for less money. It also looks way cooler. :)
Last I checked 7:38 is faster than 7:40. And done on street tires, in a 4 year old car, with softer spring rates. And you also know an additional 30 HP is just a tick on an option box away and without some boy racer Subaru STI wing sticking up all the time.;) (just kidding, I know many people like the wing while more probably want the active aero of a TT).

But the real issue is you need to compare apples to apples. Compare the 2016 GT4 with a 2016 991S, not with a 2012 911S. Even with street tires, nm sport cups, you know the 991 will be faster, and likely feel much faster because of the low end torque with 430HP and a turbo. Yes, pdk should be in both but estimates are 1 or 2 sec on the ring.
 

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Last I checked 7:38 is faster than 7:40. And done on street tires, in a 4 year old car, with softer spring rates. And you also know an additional 30 HP is just a tick on an option box away and without some boy racer Subaru STI wing sticking up all the time.;) (just kidding, I know many people like the wing while more probably want the active aero of a TT).

But the real issue is you need to compare apples to apples. Compare the 2016 GT4 with a 2016 991S, not with a 2012 911S. Even with street tires, nm sport cups, you know the 991 will be faster, and likely feel much faster because of the low end torque with 430HP and a turbo.
Ok...apples to apples it is. Compare a 6MT GT4 to a 6MT 911S (not a pdk). Put the same driver in the GT4 and 911S on the ring and see what the lap times are.... We all know what the outcome will be and we know that the 7:40 time is conservative for the GT4 anyway. Let's also compare what is currently available in the market place too....the 2016 911S with assumed lap times is not out yet...correct? Heck since the GT4 is already sold out, let's compare the next run of the GT4 to the 2016 911S.

...and $20 to $30k less with a GT3 suspension to boot....... for the win. It's a slam dunk. The GT4 rocks which answers the OP's question. :cheers:
 

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BTW, I think Michael wants to know how it will feel to downsize from his 911S to a 981GTS.

The best way is to go test drive and feel the difference. I think you will feel a substantial difference in the interior physical size and acceleration. I can say going from a 987CS to 911S is like night and day. Not even close to the same.
 

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let's compare the next run of the GT4 to the 2016 911S.
I am sure PAG will publish the 991.2S times the moment they are available. Think what you want. The numbers will be there, one way or the other.

edit. Both cars will be delivered to customers in the aug/sept time frames. Both the same MY.
 

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BTW, I think Michael wants to know how it will feel to downsize from his 911S to a 981GTS.
I think you are mistaken. His post title is clearly questioning why there is a fuss over the GT4 performance numbers. :)


Think what you want. The numbers will be there, one way or the other.
Okay...but since the 991.2S is not available yet, we have to give the straight line performance win to the GT4 at the moment comparing 6MT to 6MT. And the nurburgring track time for a mid-engine with a GT3 suspension is going to be faster. Let's come back to these posts once the numbers come out and do a hot wash up. If you do the same, I will put $500 towards the planet-9 slush fund if I am wrong for an apples to apples comparison.
 

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I don't understand why / how .05 seconds faster should be a criteria unless you are a race driver?
Sit in the car, drive it, which one brings you the most pleasure for your needs? done.
Otherwise - go get an Ariel Atom or such.
 
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