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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It's a forgone conclusion that the GT4 will live on for many model years in our future, both in 981 and 981.2 trims. After having driven the 991 GT3 on a short track recently, I totally get how special a Porsche GT car is. It made me wonder if the 981 would get the GT3 engine and PDK as an RS model. I know that engine had a lot of trouble with 2 recalls, but if it is ready now I don't imagine they'd kill it off. The GT4 is going to have the special suspension, steering and brakes as a GT3 but with a vanilla Carrera motor. A true Motorsports engine would set it apart. $130k base price like the GT3 would be expected.


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I'm thinking they will tweak the 991 3.8L X51 powerplant up a notch, periodically. As the 991's go up, 400 HP should easily be the next step in the GT4 and Spyder. They could probably do that with a higher redline and software, which may be doable as cooling, engine designs and materials are tweaked. At a $130k base price, many of us would drop out of the market for a GT4 RS.
 

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I would only go for the RS model if it stayed/offered a manual transmission. The price would not steer me away as I prefer the MR platform.
 

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Since we are speculating.... I don't think there is any way Porsche would increase the price of a GT4 by 50% for a GT4 RS. No way. They wouldn't price it that close to a GT3 and certainly would not put a GT3 engine in the GT4.

At best, we will see a 30hp bump....maybe 3.8L with power kit. 110k.
 

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It's a forgone conclusion that the GT4 will live on for many model years in our future, both in 981 and 981.2 trims. ... if the 981 would get the GT3 engine and PDK as an RS model. I know that engine had a lot of trouble with 2 recalls, but if it is ready now I don't imagine they'd kill it off.
You've made multiple assumptions that might have no bearing in reality.

I believe there WILL be GT4RS. Why? Because if you build it there will come. Historically, in recent history, if they built a GT2 or GT3, the RS followed. I see no reason for PAG to not build one in the immediate future, as in right now.

The rest, I have little faith in.

It's a forgone conclusion that the GT4 will live on for many model years

Absolutely not. Besides the most obvious things like emissions regulations or wars killing the car, the reason for its existence is to race in GT4. Once you see team racing and winning, then think about extending it another year. You seem to think it exists as just a normal production model. It exists to homogulate the race cars. As to the rest

1. They couldn't fit the 911 engine in the car. I find it hard to believe they would squeeze the GT3 engine in there.

2. There is no guarantee of a 991.2 GT3 or GT3RS. FIA and WEC regulations have changed. See New GTE regulations for 2016 revealed | WEC news | Motorsport.com and 2016 GTE Regulations Finalized - Sportscar365 It's been rumored PAG knows the 911RSR cannot compete successfully anymore and that a successor is required to compete with the 458/488, Astons, and C7R cars. Search iTunes for Radio LeMans Mid-Week Motorsports s10 e29.

3. There have been rumors for some time of a new 991GT, $300K 991R, 991 speedster, and 991GT2RS as EOL cars. Even Porsche is not going to invest in old technologies when the future is arriving this year and they are thinking about EOL for the current generation. It would make more sense to allow the existing engines run out, and then die (i.e., obsoleted).

4. With the new sports car platform arriving at the end of the 981/991 generation, there is absolutely no guarantee that a Cayman will survive the generational change as you know it. Assuming a GT4 will survive for many years, say in a third generation Cayman (i.e., 987, 981, 9XX) is optimistic at best as nobody knows what will fall out from the new sports car platform. As discussed before a plug and pay approach with multiple front ends, engine choices, engine placement, could result in something entirely different than the old line approach. Following what is happening with Piech's replacement and how PAG sorts out the Bugatti/Bentley division might (or might not) provide insight into this.

5. I know that engine had a lot of trouble with 2 recalls, but if it is ready now I don't imagine they'd kill it off.

If the 960 runs in GT3, what business case exists to continue building GT3 engines?

This all said, what about a GT4RS? Since the 3.8 already doesn't fit and is detuned because of the intake, this might be a problem. I think this has been discussed and the polished heads in the X51 won't fit. So what can they do? Throw a bigger wing on, figure out how to gain 15HP some place. maybe the more radical cam, stick a placard on it "1 of 500 made", throw some graphics on it, price it at $105K, and call it a day. End of the Cayman as you know it - another EOL car.

Done.

Next up, figure out how the new VAG sports car architecture changes the Cayman in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I think it really depends on the strength of the global economy. If 2019 is as good as 2015, all of these cars will get built. If the country was ahead of itself and we crater like 2009, a lot of these cars won't see the light of day.

The used car market is off the charts right now. Anyone can get financing. New car prices are up. If you can get premium models out the door you can print money

Like any great organization Porsche knows how to prioritize and focus. It's more important to build a GT3 RS than build a GT3. If you can only do one, it's the RS. Overhauling the 981 for turbo engines was a huge priority to keep them competitive instead of marketing them as "traditional" or for "purists". Hopefully the GT program will continue to focus on the 981 and put out real models up to and including cup cars.


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I think it really depends on the strength of the global economy. If 2019 is as good as 2015, all of these cars will get built.
You've missed the point. 2019 is EOL. No more 981/991. There is no announcement other than rumor as to what the single VAG sports car platform will look like. Maybe you think the models will continue like today with just an evolution 986 > 987 > 981

ONE platform from which ALL VAG sports cars will come in different configurations might result in ?????.

The used car market is off the charts right now. Anyone can get financing. New car prices are up. If you can get premium models out the door you can print money
Not relevant to motorsports. Again you seem think they are building these cars to meet some customer who wants a faster Cayman model. GT cars are built for homogulation purposes. Be glad they exist. No racing, no cars (or at least no real business case to build them).

Hopefully the GT program will continue to focus on the 981 and put out real models up to and including cup cars.
The GT program will exist as long as there is a place to race the cars. Just as the 991RSR cars are done, and a 960 might be the replacement GT3, then you will see 960GT3 (or whatever they call it). There will be no business case to build 991.2 GT3 cars if this holds true. There might be a business case to build the GT2RS.

I get the sense you think these are production cars. They are motorsports cars. GT2 to race in GT2. GT3 to race in GT3. GT4 to race in GT4.

A Cayman Cup Car? Then PAG would need to support an entry level racing program and build pure race cars for Caymans. Cup cars are radically different, not street legal. They have less horsepower, different brakes, different suspensions, and cost about $240,000.

Downsize that to the entry level cars and you are looking at maybe $180,000 Cayman race cars? Beside the large investment by Porsche to run the series, why aren't the teams running in GT4? After all the purpose of the car is ... GT4??? Where is Porsche going to get a massive customer base willing to buy $180,000 Cayman race cars than to race in GT4?
 

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I would see no reason why Porsche would spend a lot of money to R&D a RS car. They hit a home run just the way it is ( minus people saying the gearing is to long for street ) so why not make some subtle changes and ride the wave. How much more HP can you cram in the GT4 before it becomes to much? Let's face it the GT4 is small in size and if you want mid engine, faster, higher revs, more $$$$...Ferrari may be the car for you. Your point off $130k GT4 defeats the whole purpose off an entry level GT car.
 

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Here is my prediction: Yes, there will be a GT4 RS. It will have PDK OPTION, a slight bump in power to 400hp-410hp, come standard with LWBs, and larger Wing. Base priced about $115k ish. And, be sold out before it is ever announced. I will try to get information about the car when I visit the factory in a few weeks.
 

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I would see no reason why Porsche would spend a lot of money to R&D a RS car. They hit a home run just the way it is ( minus people saying the gearing is to long for street ) so why not make some subtle changes and ride the wave. How much more HP can you cram in the GT4 before it becomes to much?
Stop thinking of these cars as production cars. They are Weissach cars. Traditionally, the RS cars homogulate and Porsche has explicitly stated the purpose of the GT4 car was to allow teams to race cheaply rather than spending $600,000 on 911 RSR cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3

The cylinder heads of the 996 GT3 RS have reshaped intake and exhaust ports for race homologation

Porsche also offered an RS version of the 997 GT3. In common with its predecessors, it provided a homologation model for use in a range of racing series.

Porsche announced the release of the 991 GT3 R, a customer race car designed to compete in Group GT3 from 2016 onwards. The car is homologated based on the 991 GT3 RS road car


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT2

The 993-generation GT2 was initially built in order to meet homologation requirements for motorsports. Because the cars were built to meet the GT2 class regulations, the road cars were named accordingly

2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

Although the RS suffix (for rennsport, German for “racing sport”) is usually reserved for the street-legal homologation versions of racing models, Porsche defensibly decided that this latest GT2 is hard-core enough to deserve the prestigious label anyway.

I would expect an upcoming 991GT2RS to get the same treatment as hard core since there is no rumor I see for a GT2.

GT = Weissach car. RS (rennsport) usually means the homogulation car (later GT2 are exceptional in both price and performance).
 

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Here is my prediction: Yes, there will be a GT4 RS. It will have PDK OPTION,
IF they use the RS version for homogulation, there will be no PDK unless they obtain a waiver for racing in GT4 as PDK is not permitted, not that a waiver might be difficult to get (You didn't totally believe the "we listened to our customers and provided a MT" as the complete reason for no PDK :)).
 

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After shoehorning the 3.8 motor in the 981, there was not enough room left for the PDK too. Once PAG figures out how to fit the PDK and 3.8 in a 981, it will happen.
 

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Andreas Prueninger said "Yes, we will offer a PDK sometime, soon" but did not have the manpower to do in time for the initial GT4 release.

With the overwhelming success of the manual GT4, I called that it question myself. But the reality is PDK gives the car respectable fuel economy which is important to Porsche and all, and is synchronized with the other RS models. True, if any RS car would be manual it would be a GT4 but my guess is PDK, and hope is PDK option.
 

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I hope they don't offer the PDK. That would give us manual guys a reasonable chance of getting one. Once PDK then all bets are off.....

Jpr
 

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In my opinion, further GT4 development will depend on GT4 class rules, here's one possible scenario, since the GT4 has been a shooting star, the marketing job is done, car sells itself with out a racing history, why spend more money on platform? Racing teams can take take existing homologized "shells" and tweak them on the team level without having Porsche spend extra cash on factory efforts........ As for retail sales, well ...... After reading last Porsche press release, I feel better about the 981 platform surviving for the foreseeable future.
 

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Haven't a few conversions occurred already with the 3.8 with powerkit into the 981?
It's amazing people tend to forget that these conversions have already been done and somehow believe Porsche when they say they can't do it when it's more like they won't do it (or not allowed to do it until the 911 creeps up in performance to allow the Cayman variant to slot below it)...
 
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