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This is the one that blew my mind, and made me rethink my mindset when it comes to driving

https://youtu.be/osrdqmCmZXo


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This is the one that blew my mind, and made me rethink my mindset when it comes to driving

https://youtu.be/osrdqmCmZXo


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Thunderhill is such a big sweeper track that it tends to favor HP more IMHO, not where the GT4 shines the most, but a 1:59 there is hauling butt for sure, I have no idea what mods other than the tire change may be involved with that video, but just goes to show how good the GT4 is out of the box.
 

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Thunderhill is such a big sweeper track that it tends to favor HP more IMHO, not where the GT4 shines the most, but a 1:59 there is hauling butt for sure, I have no idea what mods other than the tire change may be involved with that video, but just goes to show how good the GT4 is out of the box.
A GT4 has 400 HP right? Seems appropriate for a HP track.


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A GT4 has 400 HP right? Seems appropriate for a HP track.


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380 HP in a world of 600+ HP vettes and vipers...

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WOW... I'm heading out to TH in a couple weeks,... no way I'll see those kinds of speeds... 110 going into T8... that's way beyond "my personal best!"....
Then again, I don't "work" as hard as that driver was... but it was impressive to say the least!,
D
 

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WOW... I'm heading out to TH in a couple weeks,... no way I'll see those kinds of speeds... 110 going into T8... that's way beyond "my personal best!"....
Then again, I don't "work" as hard as that driver was... but it was impressive to say the least!,
D
Your comments on the turn speed make me curious about whether the Aero setting had been adjusted.
 

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As fun as it can be (for the first 10 or 20 years) hustling around a track in a street/track car, if speed and thrills are the objective it can be done a whole lot cheaper than in a GT4 (or GT3, or C7, Viper, GT-R etc.). There are a bunch of F (open wheel) classes with lap times at TH that seriously eclipse what the street cars are doing, and the costs are a whole lot less to acquire and run them. I appreciate the Porsche multi-duty machine ethos (although viewed objectively the approach creates a compromised street car and a merely adequate track weapon) and also the experience and skill it takes to get consistently quick lap times in a road-capable car. The older I get though the less sense it makes to me to subject a beautiful street car like a GT4 to the stresses of track duty when other tools are so much quicker and cheaper.

http://www.sfrscca.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/pdf/CurrentTrack-RecordsThunderhill4_16.pdf

Ken and others running GT4s and GT3s, what's your reasoning for tracking Porsche street cars rather than faster, cheaper track-only cars? Not trolling here; sometime in the last couple of years (since our local track closed down) a switch flicked in my head and my subconscious is now telling me that it doesn't make sense financially or otherwise to run street Porsches hard on a track. DEs I get, and learning high-performance driving skills is best done on a track...but at some point you're running the car so hard (video 2 above) that it borders on abuse, and the consumable costs start to spiral. Anyone else in the same headspace as me?
 

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Agreed...I was looking at a Cayman S a friend of mine had, but the amount of track time it had seen on the Nurburgring and Spa and Hockenheimring...the many new sets of tires, pads and disks etc...in the end I couldn't buy it knowing the life it had. Yes I wanted a Porsche and yes I drive it "properly" but although mine will see a few laps of the Ring or Hockenheimring, if I want to do serious track time, it will be in a shell of a car with the go fast bits needing to be replaced,not being worried about shoving my baby into the kitty litter on a curve.
 

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Yeah let's all get Toyota SUVs and open wheel cars. Porsche is over!

Really couldn't disagree more. If has 4 wheels and you own it, take it to the track. If you're going to the track more than 15 days a year, consider using something other than a street car. If you can't afford to track your Porsche, get a cheaper Porsche. If it's too ridiculous to go to the track twice a month, go indoor/outdoor karting to practice.

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Yeah let's all get Toyota SUVs and open wheel cars. Porsche is over!

Really couldn't disagree more. If has 4 wheels and you own it, take it to the track. If you're going to the track more than 15 days a year, consider using something other than a street car. If you can't afford to track your Porsche, get a cheaper Porsche. If it's too ridiculous to go to the track twice a month, go indoor/outdoor karting to practice.

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I'm not talking about casual, occasional track days, or DEs...I'm thinking about the maybe 10 percent of truly experienced Porsche track rats who are at the front of whatever fast group exists in whatever event they are running. Running a car hard, bouncing on the bump stops HARD on the curbs, and burning through a set of pads and tires every few track days and rotors every few weeks...well, after you've done that for a decade or two, it's actually not that fun or challenging anymore. Up until my last 911, I've run every car I've owned in the past 25 years in some fashion on the track, in some cases taking a brand new car and partially gutting it to install a welded roll bar or partial cage, then run it without a care about costs or wear and tear. At age 61, having done this for 30 years (although not the last 4 or 5 years) in Porsches, BMWs, S2000s, Type R etc, I'm not going to get any faster in a street car. Thinking about getting back into it with my wife (who is doing a 3-day open wheel school at Mont Tremblant in October), it just makes sense to us get a couple of $25k or $30k FCs or FFs and a trailer, and keep the street cars for the street. Go faster...have a ton of fun...maybe learn something new...and spend less money.

BTW, maybe if I was a bit younger I'd do Rotax or even Shifter karts, having spent the better part of a decade taking my son up the ranks from Junior Yamaha through JICa, ICA and then shifters I know the thrill/cost equation is crazy appealing...but DAMN, 20 minutes in a fast kart is hard on this aging frame. Out there with the young bucks, the adrenaline starts flowing and I feel compelled to try and get and stay up front, then can hardly move the next couple of days. A bunch of old racers giving 'er in 20-year old Formula cars sounds a whole lot more pleasant, and my kind of "retirement racing." As a bonus, I never have to deal with another Ferrari or Lamborghini driver at DE or Time Attack event sporting a pristine Nomex suit, gloves and boots who is a danger to himself and everyone else on the track.

I completely understand the urge to run whatever you have, as hard as you possibly can, at every opportunity. I think I'm realizing I'm at a stage in my life where my DD just needs to be quick and precise and entertaining on the street, and won't be asked to run regularly near the edge of its performance envelope to give sensations that don't thrill the way they used to.

I wonder if all old farts who were once hard-core track rats end up here? Will you, and Ken and others be thinking similar thoughts 20 years and thousands of laps down the road?
 
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I'm not talking about casual, occasional track days, or DEs...I'm thinking about the maybe 10 percent of truly experienced Porsche track rats who are at the front of whatever fast group exists in whatever event they are running. Running a car hard, bouncing on the bump stops HARD on the curbs, and burning through a set of pads and tires every few track days and rotors every few weeks...well, after you've done that for a decade or two, it's actually not that fun or challenging anymore. Up until my last 911, I've run every car I've owned in the past 25 years in some fashion on the track, in some cases taking a brand new car and partially gutting it to install a welded roll bar or partial cage, then run it without a care about costs or wear and tear. At age 61, having done this for 30 years (although not the last 4 or 5 years) in Porsches, BMWs, S2000s, Type R etc, I'm not going to get any faster in a street car. Thinking about getting back into it with my wife (who is doing a 3-day open wheel school at Mont Tremblant in October), it just makes sense to us get a couple of $25k or $30k FCs or FFs and a trailer, and keep the street cars for the street. Go faster...have a ton of fun...maybe learn something new...and spend less money.

BTW, maybe if I was a bit younger I'd do Rotax or even Shifter karts, having spent the better part of a decade taking my son up the ranks from Junior Yamaha through JICa, ICA and then shifters I know the thrill/cost equation is crazy appealing...but DAMN, 20 minutes in a fast kart is hard on this aging frame. Out there with the young bucks, the adrenaline starts flowing and I feel compelled to try and get and stay up front, then can hardly move the next couple of days. A bunch of old racers giving 'er in 20-year old Formula cars sounds a whole lot more pleasant, and my kind of "retirement racing." As a bonus, I never have to deal with another Ferrari or Lamborghini driver at DE or Time Attack event sporting a pristine Nomex suit, gloves and boots who is a danger to himself and everyone else on the track.

I completely understand the urge to run whatever you have, as hard as you possibly can, at every opportunity. I think I'm realizing I'm at a stage in my life where my DD just needs to be quick and precise and entertaining on the street, and won't be asked to run regularly near the edge of its performance envelope to give sensations that don't thrill the way they used to.

I wonder if all old farts who were once hard-core track rats end up here? Will you, and Ken and others be thinking similar thoughts 20 years and thousands of laps down the road?
Respect! I just wanted to make sure we don't discourage the first timers from making the plunge.


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The reason why I run my GT4 on the track is because it is an extremely capable car meant to be raced. I used to race karts before and will eventually want to race in the future. While I can see some people say that its abusing the car, I think that it would be a shame to not use it for what its for. I get a great deal of pleasure putting my car to the absolute limit. A slower cheaper car would be nowhere near as fun. On the track I find myself wanting more power and soon I will add some upgrades to take care of that. While I do think that some people don't need to track these cars as its a waste (This is for the people that have no idea what they are doing on a track, they should just pick up a Miata and learn how to actually drive, as the power makes it more dangerous to have them on track)

Just my two cents

As fun as it can be (for the first 10 or 20 years) hustling around a track in a street/track car, if speed and thrills are the objective it can be done a whole lot cheaper than in a GT4 (or GT3, or C7, Viper, GT-R etc.). There are a bunch of F (open wheel) classes with lap times at TH that seriously eclipse what the street cars are doing, and the costs are a whole lot less to acquire and run them. I appreciate the Porsche multi-duty machine ethos (although viewed objectively the approach creates a compromised street car and a merely adequate track weapon) and also the experience and skill it takes to get consistently quick lap times in a road-capable car. The older I get though the less sense it makes to me to subject a beautiful street car like a GT4 to the stresses of track duty when other tools are so much quicker and cheaper.

http://www.sfrscca.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/pdf/CurrentTrack-RecordsThunderhill4_16.pdf

Ken and others running GT4s and GT3s, what's your reasoning for tracking Porsche street cars rather than faster, cheaper track-only cars? Not trolling here; sometime in the last couple of years (since our local track closed down) a switch flicked in my head and my subconscious is now telling me that it doesn't make sense financially or otherwise to run street Porsches hard on a track. DEs I get, and learning high-performance driving skills is best done on a track...but at some point you're running the car so hard (video 2 above) that it borders on abuse, and the consumable costs start to spiral. Anyone else in the same headspace as me?
 

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I don't disagree that there are many less expensive track weapon options out there especially if I want some dedicated track car. For me, however, I don't want to have to buy a tow vehicle and trailer and then all the things people who do that start acquiring. I don't have enough free garage space or enough free time to manage all that at the present time. I track for fun and to work on sharpening my track skills and to work on my sense of balance that i apply to other things like bikes or yoga :) It is also a sense of accomplishment to show up with my street car and go turn lap times faster than dedicated track cars. I also enjoy taking on higher HP cars, this last time it was a new ZO6 and despite being at a disadvantage find a way to pass them by slingshotting through a corner.

Given that it is an expensive street car, is that especially smart? No, not really, and if I were going to the track every weekend I'm sure I would do things differently but for me and my needs and at this point in my life I find it fun.

I should also add that after driving numerous cars on the track of all shapes and sizes I keep coming back to the Cayman platform as being my favorite dual duty car to drive.

I'm not converting my GT4 to a dedicated track car, I have too much fun handing out Shooting Star RacerX toys to kids at car shows.

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As fun as it can be (for the first 10 or 20 years) hustling around a track in a street/track car, if speed and thrills are the objective it can be done a whole lot cheaper than in a GT4 (or GT3, or C7, Viper, GT-R etc.). There are a bunch of F (open wheel) classes with lap times at TH that seriously eclipse what the street cars are doing, and the costs are a whole lot less to acquire and run them. I appreciate the Porsche multi-duty machine ethos (although viewed objectively the approach creates a compromised street car and a merely adequate track weapon) and also the experience and skill it takes to get consistently quick lap times in a road-capable car. The older I get though the less sense it makes to me to subject a beautiful street car like a GT4 to the stresses of track duty when other tools are so much quicker and cheaper.

http://www.sfrscca.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/pdf/CurrentTrack-RecordsThunderhill4_16.pdf

Ken and others running GT4s and GT3s, what's your reasoning for tracking Porsche street cars rather than faster, cheaper track-only cars? Not trolling here; sometime in the last couple of years (since our local track closed down) a switch flicked in my head and my subconscious is now telling me that it doesn't make sense financially or otherwise to run street Porsches hard on a track. DEs I get, and learning high-performance driving skills is best done on a track...but at some point you're running the car so hard (video 2 above) that it borders on abuse, and the consumable costs start to spiral. Anyone else in the same headspace as me?
GT4 is a streetable track car. Porsche essentially says that themselves. That's why I bought mine. Yet, I would never presume to question someone who bought one but didn't track it, since it's their car to do with as they please. I guess that means I am not in your "headspace."


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...but at some point you're running the car so hard (video 2 above) that it borders on abuse, and the consumable costs start to spiral. Anyone else in the same headspace as me?
Yeah, I struggled with this decision space and still do. Some people have said if you can't afford to lose your car, don't track it. I guess I can afford it, but it would be emotionally painful to total or destroy it. Since I do not have money to burn (still have two kids to get through college), I have to think about costs at some level. I did a lot of damage to my GT4 at VIR (BTW: repairs will be done mid July and I can't wait to get it back), so have had a good bit of time to think more about this.

I will probably take the GT4 back to the track, but am seriously considering a track only car, like a mini. You can get one custom built for a reasonable price, it's cheap to run, and if you crash it costs a lot less to fix.
 
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VIR has a lot of runoff and I don't hear about a lot of issues there - if you don't mind, how did you damage it?
 

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VIR has a lot of runoff and I don't hear about a lot of issues there - if you don't mind, how did you damage it?
I do not have video of the accident, so here is what I *think* happened. I was approaching the uphill esses and it was raining. I believe there was water entering the straight from the North course and I hydroplaned and spun. It is possible I lifted a bit at that moment to slow down for entry into the esses. I was going between 55 and 70 (I had video of a prior lap when I was going as slow as 55 but I was probably faster than that when it spun). It stayed on asphalt for a good bit, then went onto grass on the left. Felt like it sped up when I hit grass, although I know it didn't. I had rotated over 270 deg and the driver's side rear wheel hit the armco, possibly directly on one of the armco supports. I had stock wheels. That rear wheel essentially exploded - all the "spokes" were broken and the barrel was pushed into the wheel well where it did some damage. In addition to two interior aluminum body panels, it needed a new knuckle, control arm, sway bar, and one other bar that goes in a longitudinal direction. Exterior parts that were replaced include rocker panel and rear, lower quarter panel. Strangely enough, little external body damage was from the accident itself, but the wrecker did some damage loading and unloading it since the wheel was basically not present.

...After the rear wheel hit, then the car rotated and the front left kissed the armco as well - not super hard but enough to break the headlight, mess up the bumper, and bend the left radiator mount. Air bags did not deploy.

I am very happy with the repairs thus far. Porsche is pretty anal about having certified shops do work and they have specific repair procedures for just about any type of damage. I checked in on it several times and we have tons of photos. I believe it will be going to the dealer this week for alignment, radiator fluid, and basic checks.

At this point my opinion is that VIR is a safe track from the perspective that you will probably not be killed because you went straight into a concrete wall (or armco). But with the high speeds involved on the esses, both straights, and numerous other sections, it is pretty easy to make it to a barrier once you are off and out of control. Prior to this at VIR I had one spin, several 2-wheel offs, and a couple of controlled 4-wheel offs (one in the esses that was gnarly). None of these events involved contact with anything.
 
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Follow up to my insurance question of coverage vs. no coverage. Turns out two months and nine days after I filed the claim, they told me they will cover the accident at VIR.
 
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