Planet-9 Porsche Forum banner

121 - 140 of 165 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #122
LOL!! Imagine have to explain it to the other people there. :D

No matter though... the solution is on the way. I expect I'll be all set for the next DE in June.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #123
It's worth mentioning that the little wind deflectors things did the trick and I didn't have the machine-gun buffeting at all this past weekend. I'll try to get through reviewing my video over the next week or so and hopefully have at least one clean lap somewhere in all of it.

The white group this past weekend was a bit of a fiasco at times. The first session was ridiculous, with 10+ car trains and no open track at all. It was the first time I've ever wanted to be promoted out of the White group to the Black group just so I could get out of that.

As a bonus, I got a bit of a talking to for making a last minute decision to dive into the pits when looking ahead and seeing the snake of cars going from turn 8 all the way through 9 and 10 and onto the front straight. A car ahead of me dove off to the right and I thought "Hey... good idea!", threw my fist up out the window and did the same thing.

It was the right move, but poor execution. :) No harm, no foul, but I got called into the black flag station after the session (they didn't black flag me on the track) and had a chat with our attitude adjuster about it.

Things got a bit better throughout the weekend but it was still crowded. I'm honestly not sure I got a single clean lap in all weekend. I'll find out when I review the video.

My biggest accomplishment all weekend though, and complete credit goes to the instructor (Gerhard) that took me out for a session in his GT3RS, was a massive increase in the speed I'm now going through turn 4.

It wasn't a matter of changing my line or anything. Sometimes you just need to know something is possible when it doesn't seem to be.

Going out as a passenger and going through that section at speed was mind-blowing. Turn 4 is a blind left that falls off down a hill. You start it going slightly uphill and the turn basically starts as soon as you crest the hill and it appears in front of you diving left and feeling off-camber. The car gets light as you crest the hill and it all just feels like it's going to send you off into the grass and wall on the right side. Honestly... it's probably not even all that difficult a turn... but it's scary as hell.

I've added speed there over the years but have always felt frightened as I go over the hill and just hope the car will stick.

People have talked about not braking over the hill or even barely lifting and just carrying the speed they get out of corner 3 and I've always just smiled and nodded and been completely bewildered at how that could be possible. Maybe they weren't coming out of 3 as fast as me? It just couldn't be done. It was lunacy.

Well now I've been shown that it works and it was glorious!!!

That's not to say I'm now blasting through there without braking. It's still scary and still feels like I'm defying physics. But I AM going through MASSIVELY faster than I ever have before and it is EXHILARATING!! The weird thing (though it makes sense from an aero and balance perspective) is that going through it with the throttle planted actually feels a lot more stable than when I've made the turn off the gas and while praying. Now the car feels planted and just powers forward rather than feeling like I'm barely holding on and about to go spinning off to the right. It was quite a learning experience!

So that was that. I also changed my line through turn 2 and it feels faster but the difference isn't near as dramatic. That was more of a tweak while turn 4 is an entirely different ballgame now from what it was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
^^ Great post WW! I was at Mosport past weekend as well, in Yellow group. My instructor gave me the option of moving to White but recommended staying in Yellow for the exact reason you've described. I had a great time in Yellow because it wasn't crowded at all (instructed groups are limited by the number of instructors available). I love turn 4 as well, it's one of the most exciting corners at Mosport for sure. I am not yet ready to go through there at full throttle, however I am now breaking less and earlier and getting on the gas well before the apex.

We also went out in the rain (last session of the day) and I got to drive the wet line. Had a small "oh ****" moment between 3 and 4 where I tested the limits of traction. This got my instructor quite exited - a good teaching/learning opportunity no question. He really has no fear!

So you were the driver they mentioned during the morning drivers' meeting on Sunday for crossing the pits blend line. I made it a point to look for this line during the first session and noted only small dash marks there. I think they should paint a solid line to make it clear that it shouldn't be crossed (like the entry one).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #125
We also went out in the rain (last session of the day) and I got to drive the wet line. Had a small "oh ****" moment between 3 and 4 where I tested the limits of traction. This got my instructor quite exited - a good teaching/learning opportunity no question. He really has no fear!
I was up on the wall at pit out watching the black group running as the track got wet. When they announced the Green group staging for the second time and there were only two cars on the grid I was very disappointed. People who have never driven the track in the rain before should ABSOLUTELY get out there and have their instructor teach them the wet line and how to get from one to the other and what to watch out for and all that stuff. It's really important and, as you discovered, you can experience things at lower speeds (and recover from them) that would be far more dangerous at high speed in the dry. I'm happy to hear you went out and enjoyed it!!

So you were the driver they mentioned during the morning drivers' meeting on Sunday for crossing the pits blend line. I made it a point to look for this line during the first session and noted only small dash marks there. I think they should paint a solid line to make it clear that it shouldn't be crossed (like the entry one).

Yep. That was definitely me. I was gonna toss out a "My bad... I'm sorry" during drivers meeting but thought better of it. :D

I know those dash marks you're talking about. I noticed them later as well. :) I don't think that's what they were referring to, but I could be wrong. I'll have to check my video. I think they're talking about the full-on painted hash marked area that's further ahead than those and leads to the wall... and I don't think I crossed it but I'm not positive. I think I just came closer to it than anyone should. Either way, they were absolutely right. I made a last-minute decision and dove toward the pit entrance. I won't do it again. That session sucked *** though. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
WW glad to see you are enjoying your new car and it's proving to be what you hoped it would. The pics look great! Enjoy safely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #127
Thanks!! :D

I scanned through some of my video from Sunday last night. I seriously never got a clean lap in, nevermind one where I'm actually trying to do the whole thing fast. I think this is the best I did. While the wind deflectors did their job of getting rid of the painful buffeting, there's still enough wind to wreck my dash cam audio. It is what it is, I guess. I'll have to see if I can wrap some muppet fur around it or something to try to help.

So this is a reasonably quick lap in the new car that obviously starts and ends slowly and has a little traffic in the middle but nothing terrible. Looking at the time on it, I did a 1:34, which is at least respectable under the circumstances and at least a couple seconds faster than anything I ever did in the Boxster. :)

miwa_XPC3j8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #128
Last night I used Mothers R3 Racing Rubber Remover for the first time.

Mothers® R3 Racing Rubber Remover

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE???

This stuff is a miracle ointment!!!

I read that it's not safe for ceramic coatings and it'll almost certainly strip wax off (as will any method of getting track rubber off I imagine) so be warned about that but for my part, it's a Godsend!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #130
I actually thought of that but decided it felt a bit like cheating. I mean... if I put together some ideal lap out of good segments and knock a few seconds off my time, can I really tell people I can run that time? Theoretically, sure... but it doesn't seem right.

And really... it's mostly irrelevant. I don't really care that much what my lap times are. It just gives a nice reference for people that know the track to have an idea of what I'm doing. When I'm actually on the track, I'm usually just trying to chase down the car in front of me. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
I actually thought of that but decided it felt a bit like cheating. I mean... if I put together some ideal lap out of good segments and knock a few seconds off my time, can I really tell people I can run that time? Theoretically, sure... but it doesn't seem right.

And really... it's mostly irrelevant. I don't really care that much what my lap times are. It just gives a nice reference for people that know the track to have an idea of what I'm doing. When I'm actually on the track, I'm usually just trying to chase down the car in front of me. :D
FWIW, I saw some good driving in this video, but other than giving you something to shoot for personally, I agree that piecing together a virtual "best lap" to demonstrate your driving ability would be ludicrous. Anybody can look impressive on a single turn hit just right with no traffic to interfere, but it's what we can do under more typical circumstances that really tells the tale. Fear not. Be patient. Your chance to shine awaits.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
810 Posts
FWIW, I saw some good driving in this video, but other than giving you something to shoot for personally, I agree that piecing together a virtual "best lap" to demonstrate your driving ability would be ludicrous. Anybody can look impressive on a single turn hit just right with no traffic to interfere, but it's what we can do under more typical circumstances that really tells the tale. Fear not. Be patient. Your chance to shine awaits.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
On a clean track, I'd agree with you, but most HPDEs are just chock full traffic with limited passing zones and it can be extremely difficult to quantitatively know how well you were actually driving. I don't think there's any ethical problem so long as you're clear that it's a virtual lap time and are honest with your assessment (eg, not gaming your segments to try to combine a fast-in/slow-out entry with a slow-in/fast-out exit, etc). It can also be a good learning tool to help identify where you're faster or slower through a segment on different laps, and why.

I do a lot of standing-start/flying-finish TT events with one of my local clubs and I absolutely love that it's a no-passing event with cars spaced so that every lap is a clean lap.
 

·
PCA Nat'l DE Instructor
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
The white or intermediate run group has the greatest diversity of skills, from people just being promoted up to those ready to be promoted out, so patience is a virtue. One of the skills that you will need to demonstrate is traffic management inorder to advance yourself.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
On a clean track, I'd agree with you, but most HPDEs are just chock full traffic with limited passing zones and it can be extremely difficult to quantitatively know how well you were actually driving. I don't think there's any ethical problem so long as you're clear that it's a virtual lap time and are honest with your assessment (eg, not gaming your segments to try to combine a fast-in/slow-out entry with a slow-in/fast-out exit, etc). It can also be a good learning tool to help identify where you're faster or slower through a segment on different laps, and why.

I do a lot of standing-start/flying-finish TT events with one of my local clubs and I absolutely love that it's a no-passing event with cars spaced so that every lap is a clean lap.
Didn’t say it wasn’t ethical. Just not realistic or very meaningful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
810 Posts
Didn’t say it wasn’t ethical. Just not realistic or very meaningful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not realistic to build a lap where your Cayman doesn't finally make a pass only to immediately get stuck behind yet another a slow-driven Corvette or fast-driven miata? Maybe I take this a bit personally as I'm a fast(er) driver in slow rungroups with limited passing zones because I haven't yet put in the track time to get in the instructor group, but I didn't get a single lap in an entire weekend at VIR earlier this year where I didn't catch a slower driver at some point and get stuck until the next passing zone. The only way I can tell quantitatively how I actually drove is to either compare half-laps (which is also meaningless) or combine segments where I actually did have open track in front of me. Which is pretty easy to do from video, and a lot of telemetry software will do it automatically.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Discussion Starter #136
The white or intermediate run group has the greatest diversity of skills, from people just being promoted up to those ready to be promoted out, so patience is a virtue. One of the skills that you will need to demonstrate is traffic management inorder to advance yourself.
Interestingly, the first instructor I took out over the weekend, in my second session, had plenty to say about this.

I'd developed a habit of coming out of turns way off line in the hopes of getting pass signals and making quick work of it. So I'd come out nearly along side (but obviously behind) the car in front so if the signal came, I'd just blast by rather than having to drive around them.

The instructor seemed to think it was all pretty ludicrous and that I should just be immediately behind them and on the proper line. Don't anticipate a pass. Take them if you get them.

I asked other instructors about that afterwards and they were all in agreement.

So that was something wrong I'd come up with all on my own, mostly out of boredom. :)

After that session, I never did it again. I joke that the lesson learned was "MORE TAILGATING!" but that did seem to be the desired behaviour and, to be fair, I SHOULD be sticking with proper lines rather than moving all over the track just for kicks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Several PCA regions in Texas started a fast/faster/fastest 3-lane gridding for the advanced run groups in HPDEs. It massively helps with traffic. You get a relatively clear track (with people you can't catch and people who can't catch you) for a half a session or more. You might suggest that to your DE organizer. Drivers self-sort and the slowest group is generally the largest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Not realistic to build a lap where your Cayman doesn't finally make a pass only to immediately get stuck behind yet another a slow-driven Corvette or fast-driven miata? Maybe I take this a bit personally as I'm a fast(er) driver in slow rungroups with limited passing zones because I haven't yet put in the track time to get in the instructor group, but I didn't get a single lap in an entire weekend at VIR earlier this year where I didn't catch a slower driver at some point and get stuck until the next passing zone. The only way I can tell quantitatively how I actually drove is to either compare half-laps (which is also meaningless) or combine segments where I actually did have open track in front of me. Which is pretty easy to do from video, and a lot of telemetry software will do it automatically.
Ok, My apologies for not making myself clear, and for irritating you in the process. I took the OP to be talking about someone constructing a virtual lap as a frame of reference to the performance of other drivers. Obviously, a lap that gives you a sense of what you doing when you were at your best in each segment would be personally meaningful to any driver and useful too. Btw, I empathize with you since I spent every session this weekend passing everybody in my run group except a guy in a GT3. We have open passing with point by in my group which means I get waved by in some of the trickiest parts of Road Atlanta, which usually means having to brake like hell as soon as I am around the other car. Anyway, sorry to come across as an abrasive know it all. It was not my intent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Several PCA regions in Texas started a fast/faster/fastest 3-lane gridding for the advanced run groups in HPDEs. It massively helps with traffic. You get a relatively clear track (with people you can't catch and people who can't catch you) for a half a session or more. You might suggest that to your DE organizer. Drivers self-sort and the slowest group is generally the largest.
I like this idea. Personally, I don't care whether most of the cars are way ahead or way behind. Just like to have some open track now and then.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
121 - 140 of 165 Posts
Top