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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A Historical look back.... In August of 2013, while defending how close-to-perfect the Cayman S was, I declared that a Cayman with extra horsepower might become the worlds best sports car :) :) :). At the time people thought I was high on exhaust fumes.... then comes the GT4. It may be the best sports car since the Shelby Cobra???? :hilarious:

A look back...

08-28-2013, 08:32 PM
#16
matttheboatman
Porsche Specialist500 post club


Join DateMay 2013LocationDestin, FLPosts515Downloads1Uploads0​


[h=2]Re: test drove 2.7L cayman[/h]
Re: Not enough HP

Me, never satisfied? Perhaps.

But let me be clear on this - I think the 2014 Cayman is awesome, the S even more awesome. Fun to drive is an understatement! My point was that it is such a good car, that IF it had the ponies that Porsche puts in say a 911S, that not only would the Cayman be a better car, but the BEST CAR of all time.

True, that is a bold statement.

But if you look at almost every Car Vs. Car test, the Cayman S is right there with cars that have 20%, 30% and even 100% more power, and all the testers like the Cayman better. So, you tell me, is it too far fetched to imagine a 400hp Cayman and how it would compare to those other MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE super-cars?

My guess is not only would the tester once again prefer the Cayman but it would also deliver quicker track times, and quicker 0-60 times than every other super car out there includng; Ferraris, Astin Martins, and other Super Cars. These cars already have the power - so they are at thier performance pinnacle. The Cayman S performs very close to these cars with substaintially less horsepower!

I'm not saying that the Cayman S doesn't have enough horsepower to be a truly outstanding and exceedingly fun car to drive. Heck, I just love my S. I'm saying the Cayman S is only a few ponnies away from being the absolute best car built by man today, regardless of price.

Here is another way to look at it. If I was around to buy a Shelby Cobra and they were sold with 75 less horsepower, would it not be a truly outstanding car? But add the ponies, and it becomes legendary.

The 981 Cayman S is proving to be one of those very special cars in car building history. Bold statement, but that my opinion.

Matt​


 
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These cars already have the power - so they are at thier performance pinnacle.
Did I miss something? Has technology stopped, frozen in time? Sounds like Rip Van Winkle. Have you decided to only compare a 2016 GT4 vs 2015 "other cars?"

Just saying, no, every other car has not achieved their performance pinnacle. For example, within the marque you know the 991.2, coming out this summer, will have more power. Every other car will have more power. Meanwhile, the GT4, a MY16 car, will be frozen while all the other MY16 cars haven't even been announced yet.

Technology marches on ... But I like your enthusiasm! :)
 

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Good Point Chow Man,

Yes, many other cars are coming out with incredible numbers. But, I stand by my prediction.... GT4 something special in our lifetime. I wasn't around to buy one of those classic special cars 356B, Spyder, '73 911RS, Ferrari GTB, Shelby Cobra, etc, etc.. Just saying its a very special car of our time.

Others too saw it way before Porsche. BGB dedicated his race shop to the Cayman. .
 

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Good Point Chow Man,

Yes, many other cars are coming out with incredible numbers. But, I stand by my prediction.... GT4 something special in our lifetime. I wasn't around to buy one of those classic special cars 356B, Spyder, '73 911RS, Ferrari GTB, Shelby Cobra, etc, etc.. Just saying its a very special car of our time.

Others too saw it way before Porsche. BGB dedicated his race shop to the Cayman. .

I see. You think it will become one of the top tier cars, or a special car. I can't see it being like a 427 AC Cobra. Carroll Shelby was just too important a name. As a special car, even with maybe 2000 cars made, it will never demand prices like the 4.0 GT3RS or the few GT2RS cars made.

But I see your point. :) And your enthusiasm is infectious (is that a word?). I think they should crank up production and make as many as they can sell. Why not? So they outsell the Cayman S. So be it. Let it become a best seller.
 

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2 more inches. OOPPSS, 2 more feet since per your name, and have posted the comparison previously, are into boats.

Are you bored? Nobody pays attention to you? Or are you taking up where donkey left off; OOPPSS again, wrong forum.

:taunt:

Or not.

:hilarious:
 

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And I thought the 914 4 was the pinnacle--especially measured by the lateral G first derivative divided by the acceleration! :)
 
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Technology marches on ... But I like your enthusiasm! :)
True, but physics doesn't and at some point all the technology in the world can't move a piece of metal (and plastic and leather) rolling on a bunch of wheels and tires any faster -- until they invent the flying Jetson's cars, that is. Point being, the improvements in technology have been amazing in our lifetimes and will continue to some degree, but won't be nearly as amazing going forward (assuming "cars" include wheels and tires"). The new frontiers for cars is switching to things that are bad for drivers like us -- self-driving cars and the such, taking the joy out of the experience....
 
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Still a few enthusiasts left in the world today that will pass tradition to the next generation:cheers:

True, but physics doesn't and at some point all the technology in the world can't move a piece of metal (and plastic and leather) rolling on a bunch of wheels and tires any faster -- until they invent the flying Jetson's cars, that is. Point being, the improvements in technology have been amazing in our lifetimes and will continue to some degree, but won't be nearly as amazing going forward (assuming "cars" include wheels and tires"). The new frontiers for cars is switching to things that are bad for drivers like us -- self-driving cars and the such, taking the joy out of the experience....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
True, but physics doesn't and at some point all the technology in the world can't move a piece of metal (and plastic and leather) rolling on a bunch of wheels and tires any faster -- until they invent the flying Jetson's cars, that is. Point being, the improvements in technology have been amazing in our lifetimes and will continue to some degree, but won't be nearly as amazing going forward (assuming "cars" include wheels and tires"). The new frontiers for cars is switching to things that are bad for drivers like us -- self-driving cars and the such, taking the joy out of the experience....
I think you are right on. How long will it be before we have an electric motor on each wheel as a hybrid boost so that on demand we can go 0-60 in like 2 second? I am open to accepting and adapting to new technology. But can really appreciate "old school" done well too.
 
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I think you are right on. How long will it be before we have an electric motor on each wheel as a hybrid boost so that on demand we can go 0-60 in like 2 second? I am open to accepting and adapting to new technology. But can really appreciate "old school" done well too.
I can't wait for electric motors on each wheel! I'll miss the sound of the internal combustion engine but not funding a dysfunctional portion of world (no, I'm not talking about Texas and Alaska -- but now that you mention it...... [hold the flames, that was a joke!]) or polluting the air (yes, I know most electricity production is polluting, but that is going to improve too with technology). If the BMW i8 had any decent range......
 

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I think we all knew back in 2006 when we drove the first Cayman and said "gee this is great but another 100HP would be awesome"

I don't know...I am a car lover first, a Porsche fan second, and I seem to be less excited than most.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a great car. But I view the Cayman GT4 as an evolutionary upgrade over past Caymans. Bigger motor, better suspension. But it is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

There is a lot of hype out there right now since it is the latest thing. Every year it seems there is THAT car people fall over. Next year it will be something else.

The GT4 is special. I would love to own one.

But it is not the fastest, most advanced, or best value sports car on the market. It is a little hot rod. Smallest car, big engine. Old recipe.

I am utterly turned off at the false sense of collectibility that car manufactures are creating with special edition cars. These cars are not hand assembled by elves. They are mass produced. Ever year there is a new special edition something.
 

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These cars are not hand assembled by elves. They are mass produced. Ever year there is a new special edition something.
I do not disagree with your sentiment, in general. I do disagree with the elves part.

I don't know about the Caymans but much of the 911 cars are hand built. Just look at how much is done by hand here. I'd like to see Ford or Chevy try this and then see how much a Z06 would cost.

Workers are using hand tools.

 

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I do not disagree with your sentiment, in general. I do disagree with the elves part.

I don't know about the Caymans but much of the 911 cars are hand built. Just look at how much is done by hand here. I'd like to see Ford or Chevy try this and then see how much a Z06 would cost.

Workers are using hand tools.

I agree but levels of automation have risen extensively since the days of hand painted hand built Porsches. GM has humans with hand tools assembling cars. Just not to the level of porsche. The 981 is selling well but I have not heard of capacity issues of late

If they can build n number Caymans in general a year. There is no reason I can see why each one could not be a GT4 if Porsche wanted to and demand was there. They simply choose not to for marketing purposes.
 
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^This^. The IT car now, but just another Porsche over time. It's still a parts bin car, just different than the GTS. Not a collectible. Tried and true marketing.

Didn't stop me from buying one however.
 

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When I was in today finalizing my GT4 allocation me and the GM talked about how this is probably going to be one of the last and most powerful NA cars of the 981 run. In 2 years turbos are going to dominate the landscape. The 993 era ended the air-cooled engine this is going to be the end of NA motors in the Cayman, Boxster and possibly the 911.
 

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the GM talked about how this is probably going to be one of the last and most powerful NA cars of the 981 run. In 2 years turbos are going to dominate the landscape. The 993 era ended the air-cooled engine this is going to be the end of NA motors in the Cayman, Boxster and possibly the 911.
On a video linked on a different thread here the head engineer for GT3 and GT4 was asked whether that was true and while he would not answer directly he strongly implied that it was not true. While the "normal" cars -- like ours -- may all be high powered 4-cylinder turbos, the ultra high performance cars (i.e., GTs) probably won't be.....
 

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Good Point Chow Man,

Yes, many other cars are coming out with incredible numbers. But, I stand by my prediction.... GT4 something special in our lifetime. I wasn't around to buy one of those classic special cars 356B, Spyder, '73 911RS, Ferrari GTB, Shelby Cobra, etc, etc.. Just saying its a very special car of our time.

Others too saw it way before Porsche. BGB dedicated his race shop to the Cayman. .
I love getting praise where praise is due! Yes...after reading article after article I went to my partner and said that we have to build 3.8L Caymans for the masses before the factory does...and that's how the 981 swap program was born. And as quickly as it came to life...
 

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IMHO: I do feel that this will be a special car in history. I am trying to buy one myself, not because of that reason, but because of what this car is, and I believe I am not alone. This car fills a special niche that not only barely exists today, but will disappear quickly in the coming years. That is a hard edged sports car that is normally aspirated and manual, under $100k, with performance bits that would normally only be had with aftermarket modifications.

When I read through the forums I see a lot of people that are first time Porsche buyers that are in line for this vehicle. Many are actually BMW owners, like myself, that would more likely be lusting after the latest M vehicle but alas, BMW has already converted to forced induction. These cars are fast and amazing but they lack a certain visceral experience that so many auto enthusiasts lust for.

Porsche is about to make the switch to turbo and I believe they will lose something when they do. I understand why they are doing it and I support that it benefits the planet but I predict those cars will not excite me enough to spend Porsche money on one. This will be one of the last opportunities to buy a car with these special features.

If this car were PDK it would still sell like crazy but I believe the buyer demographic would be different. If it was PDK, I would not be on a wait list right now. Sure it is the fastest around a track but I don’t care. I want to have an amazing driving experience and I enjoy driving a manual. I intend to track the car occasionally, but that is not the primary reason I want this car. I really want to take it on twisty back roads and just enjoy it. It is special because it is manual.

So I do think this car will have a special place over time. Porsche may be able to keep the GT cars NA for some time but I doubt forever. They may make a 981.2 GT4 and I am sure it will be amazing and I hope NA. They may make an RS which would also be amazing. If Porsche did this it may make this GT4 less special but it will still be special just like the 997.1 GT3 is special despite the 7.2 and the RS versions. It may not have a true GT engine but it is also at a price point that many more enthusiasts can pull off and actually own, not just lust over. It may not appreciate in the near term but I do feel it will be special and highly regarded for decades.
 
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