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Other than the typical squawk about the sound the comment that the car is rather dull and uninspiring commuting etc was a surprise. Don't think I've heard that one before.
 

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Pretty much came out to that when I was speccing one for my wife. If you ask me I think the TT RS might be the way better option for more thrills.

If by thrills, you mean sound or more features for your money, then yes. But, there's no way I'll pay more than $60,000 for a fancy GTI with a Haldex FWD biased system.
 

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Apologies, I didn't mean to be short earlier. I was off to a meeting.

There's a lot to like about the new TTRS starting with the old school cool I-5 which sounds amazing!

But, there's no getting around the MQB chassis that car is on and the horrible Haldex system. If only Audi would have put a better Quattro system in it, that car could have been epic.

So, the Audi has the motor the 718 should have and the 718 has the chassis and handling the TTRS should have.


It's quite the conundrum inside the VW family.
 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F4yUKAm1No

Carlos is back. Also has a side by side lap against the GT4. Amazing car. I will leave the sound to an individual's judgement :D I don't like it at all. But the performance is undeniable!
Thanks for posting this link, it was a great review and I like the way it covered both the numbers and the feeling that the 718 now brings to the table. I have driven (funny enough) an identical Grey 718 Boxster S on the track during a level one performance driving school and it certainly is a beast, everything Carlos said is true, Porsche did not fail in the quest for upping the performance bar with this car... however the character and feel of this car does change how you feel about it when it is not pushed, it seems slightly muted and does not entice me to want to have fun the same way my Boxster GTS does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Apologies, I didn't mean to be short earlier. I was off to a meeting.

There's a lot to like about the new TTRS starting with the old school cool I-5 which sounds amazing!

But, there's no getting around the MQB chassis that car is on and the horrible Haldex system. If only Audi would have put a better Quattro system in it, that car could have been epic.

So, the Audi has the motor the 718 should have and the 718 has the chassis and handling the TTRS should have.


It's quite the conundrum inside the VW family.
No apologies required! In essence I do agree with you. But if it saves me 20-25k and since it will be for my wife who most likely can't tell any of the difference and is more concerned about looks (she loves loves loves the TT shape) and the interior and convenience features and mostly the DSG tranny - it just makes more logical sense to go that direction. I am sure for the kind of city/village driving we do the TT RS will be more than entertaining.
 

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No apologies required! In essence I do agree with you. But if it saves me 20-25k and since it will be for my wife who most likely can't tell any of the difference and is more concerned about looks (she loves loves loves the TT shape) and the interior and convenience features and mostly the DSG tranny - it just makes more logical sense to go that direction. I am sure for the kind of city/village driving we do the TT RS will be more than entertaining.
Given the context, I wholeheartedly agree.

I LOVE the sound of the motor.
 

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There is no denying that the 718 performs better than the 981. But how often are you driving the 981/718 at it's full potential, for me that is rarely. I still prefer the looks and sound of the 981 over the 718.
 

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As a counterpoint, I specifically chose the 718 over the NA flat six due to the drivability in the reasonable RPM range while driving at a "pace" on public roads. I love the sound of the flat six howl, but that's not available until the engine is well up in the RPM range. I chose to give up the sonorous sound for more torque down low as I'm addicted to torque. One of the cars I tested was the new Mustang GT350. The motor has a glorious sound. But, it has nothing down low. To keep it in its power band, you sound like an a-hole as it comes alive above 5k. Yikes!

For years, I rode a BMW K1200S. It was and is a great touring bike. It's motor sounded great (especially with the Akrapovic muffler) but that bike wasn't happy until it was way up on the rev band. My last two bikes have been BMW Rs which are boxer twins (R1200RT and R1200GS). The exhaust note is rather flatulent and uninspiring. But, the torque of the 1200 CC boxer is addicting. Some people gel with it, some people don't.

I love Carlos at MT and Jason. I also love Chris Harris. But, I humbly disagree with them that the sound alone kills the joy of the 718. I'm with Matt Farrah (Smoking Tire & Drive), Dan Neil (WSJ), and Tom Voelk (NY Times) with that fact that riding torque wave on the road and the track can also be a smile inducing moment.


http://www.planet-9.com/attachments/718-chat/68394-your-reaction-new-718-a-torque-jpg
 

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No apologies required! In essence I do agree with you. But if it saves me 20-25k and since it will be for my wife who most likely can't tell any of the difference and is more concerned about looks (she loves loves loves the TT shape) and the interior and convenience features and mostly the DSG tranny - it just makes more logical sense to go that direction. I am sure for the kind of city/village driving we do the TT RS will be more than entertaining.
My wife has a 2017 Audi TT and loves it. She's owned all three generations of TT, but it's only this 3rd generation that I would consider a competent sportscar. It is really a nice everyday sporty vehicle.

We test drove the 2017 TT-S, but the suspension was much too harsh for her (especially since the dealers load their demo cars up including 20" wheels that look great but make the suspension harshness even more severe.) I don't know how harsh the TT-RS will be but if you do decide to get one, make sure you get the magnetic shock options and stick with 19" wheels. Otherwise you may find that the TT-RS will become your car, not hers.
 

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I just traded in my 2016 TT on my 718 Cayman. TT was fine, good even. But not special. I cant quantify it. But i find excuses to run errands in the Cayman. And there is one word in the last post that sums up the TT. "Sporty". It is Sporty. But the Cayman is a Sports car. There is a difference.
 

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In my opinion, watching the head-to-head comparison of the 718S and the GT4 using headphones is the best example of both the strengths and weaknesses of the 718.

On the positive side, the 718 Boxster S is every bit as fast around the track as the Cayman GT4. It can keep up in both the straights and the corners. For most of the lap, the 718S is actually slightly ahead of the GT4, though the GT4 manages to pull out a slight lead in the last leg. Considering how good the GT4 is on the track, it's saying quite a bit that the 718S is its equal.

And while you could spend $93K on a 718S, you could also order a no-frills 718 Cayman S for under $70K. In contrast, all of the used GT4s on Autotrader are priced above $100K. (Okay, there is one for $99,950.)

On the (possibly) negative side, listening to the track laps through headphones makes it obvious how radically different the 718S and the GT4 sound. You hear the 718S in your left ear and the GT4 in your right ear as they accelerate through the same curves and straights at nearly the same time.

Sound is subjective, and some people might think the 718S sounds better, but my guess is that most enthusiasts will prefer the sound of the GT4's flat-six.

Does the sound really matter when the performance is just as good? Well, that's also a subjective question...
 

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I just dont get this whole sound argument. Its a car. i get that the 981 had a nice sound. But i dont drive a car for sound. I get that it is a factor. For me though, it is soooooo far down the list its not even funny. I would say that it ranks up there with the change they made to the door handle lifting up rather than out. Some of it is, (just my humble opinion) the justifications of everyone who owns the previous generation car and wants to feel like they are not missing out on anything that the new car has to offer.. BTW, i owned both a 981 Boxster and Cayman, so i know of what i speak. The 981 is a great car. The 718 is a great car. One has a nice growl to it when you rev the engine past a certain point. But I really value the low band torque more. Just my 2 cents
 

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I'm a bit lost on the sound thing as well. When BWM went from that beautiful sounding V8 in the M3 to the "gargling concrete" sound (as some press described it) of the new twin turbo 6, it received some criticism. But, it didn't get passed in the reviews JUST for the sound. While there are more positive reviews from the press than negative on the 718, the negative reviews only take a pass on the 718 over sound. Really?

"It's a great car, but that sound... meh." ???

As for me, I love the sound of that old V8 M3 but I would take the current version any day of the week. As for the 718, I too had my chance to consider a used 981, but I didn't have as much of a problem as some on the sound of the 718. So, my money went to the 718.


And, for goodness sakes, the 718 does not sound any more like a boxer Subaru flat 4 than the Porsche flat 6s sound like a Subaru flat six. I believe when some of the flat 6 crowd calls the 718's motor a Subaru motor they forget Subaru makes a flat six as well. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The fact that the 718 is at the center of so much controversy just based on sound alone whilst objectively being a step forward in performance but backwards in looks just indicates how frustrated enthusiasts are. Period. For example I have a love hate relationship with my Spyder. Porsche took just about a perfect car and castrated it by restricting the breathing on the motor and the ridiculously tall gearing. 2, 3, 4, 5 gearing need a proper replacement and then that car would be perfect. It's the same with the 718.
 

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I'm not surprised by this video. I have seen 718S's repeatedly knock off GT4s on track - and even more so when on appropriate tires. Personally, I thought the GT4 was over rated (the .1 Carrera was very underdone, the GT3 had engine problems and still does, yet the GT3 is far more engaging to drive and a whole world quicker) - In my own personal example I put three seconds on a GT4 flicking between a .2S on street tires and GT4.

I have said it many times on here, I drove the 718S for three days in Sept and its a fantastic drive - better than the base 991.2 - Porsche have actually delivered an engine that the Caymans chassis can use to devastating effect. On road and on track it now drives better, handles better and brakes better. The engine doesn't even guzzle oil because its better engineered. In the real world, its even a better daily driver.

Theose that bang on about "sound" should go and join the "save the manual" club :) they really should - on entry you get presented a set of string back gloves - for the "true" enthusiast ;) and a free pass to the "worst review club". Big tip, if you like sound get a Ferrari, Lambo, LFA, V12 Vantage or GT350R - they sound better than any Porsche by a big margin (exception the new 991.2 GT3).

The commentariat often gets things wrong, largely because they never have to live with the cars they test. A Porsche is a sum of the parts equation and the 718S is a great example of this.

Interestingly consumer ignorance killed Betamax, I suspect consumer ignorance will ultimately kill the Cayman/Boxster. Will this worry Porsche, no - they have built the 991 911 RSR. It will be interesting to see where they go with this. But mark my words, the next mid-engined Porsche may cost an arm and a leg more than the brilliant but humble 718S. The irony being the charge over the cliff was largely lead by so called "purists" or "enthusiasts" which for me, these days tends to translate to luddite.
 

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The fact that the 718 is at the center of so much controversy just based on sound alone whilst objectively being a step forward in performance but backwards in looks just indicates how frustrated enthusiasts are. Period. For example I have a love hate relationship with my Spyder. Porsche took just about a perfect car and castrated it by restricting the breathing on the motor and the ridiculously tall gearing. 2, 3, 4, 5 gearing need a proper replacement and then that car would be perfect. It's the same with the 718.
Sorry, I don't see your logic, i.e. "It's the same with the 718". You state that the spyder is compromised mechanically, and so its performance is compromised. It seems like from all the reviews I've read or listened to, that Porsche has done a pretty fine job of maximizing both the 718's engine & chassis and therefore the overall performance of the 718 is pretty incredible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry, I don't see your logic, i.e. "It's the same with the 718". You state that the spyder is compromised mechanically, and so its performance is compromised. It seems like from all the reviews I've read or listened to, that Porsche has done a pretty fine job of maximizing both the 718's engine & chassis and therefore the overall performance of the 718 is pretty incredible.
My post was with respect to the sound of the car. To me it's a valid metric and part of why I love driving my Spyder. Sure aftermarket remedies are available for getting the gearing ratio shortened a better LSD in the rear to mitigate the PTV stuff. I can throw on some headers and get a tune and that additional zing I am looking for will be there and with better sound to boot! I keep coming back to the sound. The sound of the 718 is something that does not appeal to me hence my post and there's not much that can be done to improve it. It's the one flaw in the car that I can't get over...well one of the flaws. And the other is the looks. That font and that rear just are uninspiring to me. It could also be a mental blocking paying 90k for a car with a 4 pot turbo! Honestly at that price point if I HAD to have a Porsche I would get the 911. Even with the turbos it sounds pretty decent!
 
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