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You can pry the 6MT on my 981 from my cold dead hands.


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+1. I currently own 3 manual cars with another arriving soon which I wouldn't have ordered if I couldn't get it with a manual.
 
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The point isn't that some of us prefer (or insist) on manuals, but rather that the number of those people is shrinking. Porsche has said that they will offer them as long as there is a demand, but there certainly is a minimum that they will have to sell to make economic sense. Without an available platform, new drivers won't learn how and the number will continue to shrink. Mind you, it may all be academic if there is an electric future.
 
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I think as long as there is any reasonable demand, a few automakers will continue to offer MT's in select models, but the number of those models will shrink and our selection will be much more limited.
 

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There is no question that the manual transmission is in its final years. When I was looking for a BS here in LA it was near impossible to find a manual. I assume it was because of the traffic which is God awful everywhere around LA. I do have a Honda S2K so I get my shifting in for all my daily drives anyway. The only good news on this front is that automatics, dual clutch and slush boxes, have improved to the point that they are actually better than manuals in both fuel economy and performance. This certainly was not true ten years ago when automatics meant you really wee settling for less in the name of convienience in traffic. Progress, no matter how painful, marches on!
 

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Automatics may be better in terms of fuel economy and performance, although I think the latter is debatable in the average car on an on ramp, but they seriously lack the fun factor for a lot of us. For people who just want to get from Point A to Point B, that may not matter, but for those of us who enjoy driving, it may be a serious loss.
 

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To me, this is the same argument as the one about electronic calculators allowed in the school (they were not allowed when I went to school many moons ago). Reasoning being that operations on numbers that calculator is capable of have very little "added value" of problem solving so they might as well use them so they can then dedicate their brains to higher added value math concepts. What that produced was not exactly an army of Goedels or Penroses. What it produced is an army of young people utterly incapable of calculating change to give you back after you paid your mocha with a $20 and the cashier machine refused to cooperate and display change amount to them.

Argument about two pedals transmissions is very similar - knowing how to shift gears has very little added value to the activity of driving, on street as well as on track. This automation will allow drivers to use their capabilities and concentrate on more added-value actions while driving. What it did allow drivers to do is to have a complete meal (breakfast and coffee) while behind the steering wheel of a moving vehicle. What it didn't produce is an army of Dario Franchittis.

Do you know that ship captains are perfectly capable of navigating using sextants and watch, regardless the ridiculously low price of modern GPS units? There is a reason for that. A very, very good reason for that. I am in favor of doing the same thing for vehicles. You want to buy an automatic transmission? That's fine, but first you must demonstrate that you are capable to drive properly a manual transmission. Never going to happen. Sad thing is ... I believe that, if people were forced to learn how to use MT properly, a lot more of them would say "HeII no!" to an automatic transmission with its added cost and spend that money on better options. Like LSD or sport suspension, for example ;)
 

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To me, this is the same argument as the one about electronic calculators allowed in the school (they were not allowed when I went to school many moons ago). Reasoning being that operations on numbers that calculator is capable of have very little "added value" of problem solving so they might as well use them so they can then dedicate their brains to higher added value math concepts. What that produced was not exactly an army of Goedels or Penroses. What it produced is an army of young people utterly incapable of calculating change to give you back after you paid your mocha with a $20 and the cashier machine refused to cooperate and display change amount to them.

Argument about two pedals transmissions is very similar - knowing how to shift gears has very little added value to the activity of driving, on street as well as on track. This automation will allow drivers to use their capabilities and concentrate on more added-value actions while driving. What it did allow drivers to do is to have a complete meal (breakfast and coffee) while behind the steering wheel of a moving vehicle. What it didn't produce is an army of Dario Franchittis.

Do you know that ship captains are perfectly capable of navigating using sextants and watch, regardless the ridiculously low price of modern GPS units? There is a reason for that. A very, very good reason for that. I am in favor of doing the same thing for vehicles. You want to buy an automatic transmission? That's fine, but first you must demonstrate that you are capable to drive properly a manual transmission. Never going to happen. Sad thing is ... I believe that, if people were forced to learn how to use MT properly, a lot more of them would say "HeII no!" to an automatic transmission with its added cost and spend that money on better options. Like LSD or sport suspension, for example ;)
Very, very well stated.
 

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To me, this is the same argument as the one about electronic calculators allowed in the school (they were not allowed when I went to school many moons ago).
They didn't have electronic calculators when I was in school. :(

You want to buy an automatic transmission? That's fine, but first you must demonstrate that you are capable to drive properly a manual transmission. Never going to happen. Sad thing is ... I believe that, if people were forced to learn how to use MT properly, a lot more of them would say "HeII no!" to an automatic transmission with its added cost and spend that money on better options. Like LSD or sport suspension, for example ;)
I'll go you one better. You should learn how to hand crank a car before you can get one with an automatic starter. ;)

I've driven cars with MT since I first started driving in the mid-60's. All of my sports cars have had MTs but for one. The Cayman that I had before the one I have now had PDK. I loved it. I could choose when to shift and I didn't have to screw around with a clutch.

The Cayman that I am driving now has a MT. I love it too. I guess I just don't care one way or the other.

Manual transmissions are going away. Gasoline engines are going. Cars might be going away. I won't be here to worry about any of those things. :)
 

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I'll go you one better. You should learn how to hand crank a car before you can get one with an automatic starter.
The hand cranking reference is often used by auto lovers as a put down of those who prefer MTs, but it is not relevant. Starting the engine has nothing to do with the driving experience, other than not being able to drive unless the engine starts.

I've driven cars with MT since I first started driving in the mid-60's. All of my sports cars have had MTs but for one. The Cayman that I had before the one I have now had PDKicon. I loved it. I could choose when to shift and I didn't have to screw around with a clutch.
Interesting observation. In my case shifting has become so natural that I don't even consciously think about the mechanics of shifting. So engaging the clutch is not a chore for me.
Bottom line is that driving a car with an auto is boring to me. If I drove for a living (UPS driver), you better believe that I would drive an auto, but fortunately that's not my situation. When I drive it's for pleasure, and a MT is an integral part of that driving pleasure, at least it is for me.

The Cayman that I am driving now has a MT. I love it too. I guess I just don't care one way or the other.
 

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To me, this is the same argument as the one about electronic calculators allowed in the school (they were not allowed when I went to school many moons ago). Reasoning being that operations on numbers that calculator is capable of have very little "added value" of problem solving so they might as well use them so they can then dedicate their brains to higher added value math concepts. What that produced was not exactly an army of Goedels or Penroses. What it produced is an army of young people utterly incapable of calculating change to give you back after you paid your mocha with a $20 and the cashier machine refused to cooperate and display change amount to them.
This is more true than you might know. I've seen, first hand, young folks who can't do math. They can't figure out the change without the cash register doing it for them. For that matter, they can't enter anything into the register unless there is a single button to do so.

I would view the issue of MT vs Automatics (including CVT, and PDK type transmissions) to be more like the audio industry.

While we all see through the lens of our environment, that environment is vastly different across the country. While some think what is going on in their part of the US, for example, is the end all, it's not. Far from it. F150s trucks are THE best seller by a huge margin while sports cars sales are a pittance. I can't go 1/2 mile without seeing a pickup and SUVs? They are in every driveway. Of course PDK is better for mileage for testing. It's all in the programming. Similarly, CDs probably gave better audio to some than scratchy vinyl. But today, vinyl is revered by some people while CDs? Do they even sell them anymore.

Companies care about profit. For the masses, they will dump MTs as fast as they can because the public don't care. They are buying appliances and appliances aren't fun. Same with audio. The move from vinyl to CD to streaming went fairly quickly. But vinyl and high end turntables are still sold, yet CDs a thing of the past. Why? I believe MTs will ALWAYS be sold. They are fun. And since companies want to make money, if they don't provide the products, they LOSE money to the next company that will build a MT. It might be niche, but then again Porsche sports cars were a niche product until now. This is all changing. My read is PAG is done. They are going all in for EV so forget about MT. Its just a matter of when, not if.

There is where the problem lies. In a free economy where the consumer is free to choose what they want, MT would survive and be a niche product, like vinyl and high end turntables today. I know of no regulations that force vinyl records and turntables off the market other than normal market forces. But PAG lives in the EU and are bound by government regulations that preclude that consumer choice. If they are forced to go EV, they are done in terms of MT. I'd look to the Japanese and US car companies.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-manual-transmission-cars
 

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I drove two MT VW Beetles, a Rabbit GTI, Golf GTI and a Corrado, all MT. I loved them. But, in my older years and loss of feeling in my feet due to diabetes, I am a PDK guy.

I don't know if anyone read it, but Stuttgart just banned older Euro 4 compliant diesels due to smog reasons, starting in 2019. Could MT be next?

It may be 20 years, but sooner or later self-driving cars will be all that is allowed and the MT vs AT argument will be moot,

V6
 

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The hand cranking reference is often used by auto lovers as a put down of those who prefer MTs, but it is not relevant. Starting the engine has nothing to do with the driving experience, other than not being able to drive unless the engine starts.



Interesting observation. In my case shifting has become so natural that I don't even consciously think about the mechanics of shifting. So engaging the clutch is not a chore for me.
Bottom line is that driving a car with an auto is boring to me. If I drove for a living (UPS driver), you better believe that I would drive an auto, but fortunately that's not my situation. When I drive it's for pleasure, and a MT is an integral part of that driving pleasure, at least it is for me.

The Cayman that I am driving now has a MT. I love it too. I guess I just don't care one way or the other.
I had a C6 with a paddle-shifter (buyer mistake, I got rid of it for that reason) and I have a MB with a paddle shifter that I never use because whats the point? IMHO a Porsche sports car (not a Cayenne or Panamera or other imposter) must have a manual to complete the driving experience. The only exceptions are if your daily drive is in traffic or you are seriously tracking the car. I just don't get the PDK in a Porsche sports car other than under those two circumstances.
 

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It has been said that a manual transmission is the best defense against car jacking.
Along these lines, my friend bought his college bound daughter a manual (not a sports car) and taught her to drive it for two reasons. She can now drive most anything, none of her friends can borrow her car.
 
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