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Ring officials not happy with the way Tesla conducted business.

“We want to have circumstances that can be understood and replicated,” said Nuerburgring spokesman Alexander Gerhard, adding that the racing circuit operator had moved to tighten rules by which a car maker can claim a certified lap time.

“The car [Tesla[ was heavily modified,” said Stefan Baldauf ...“Aside from a roll cage and the driver’s seat, the interior had been stripped out,” ...The Tesla also appeared to have semi-slick tyres, used only on racing circuits and unsuited for everyday use, A Porsche spokeswoman told Reuters its Taycan was tested using standard tyres.

Notary Jens Boehle, who certified lap times by Porsche, said, “Scope for cheating is as big as you can imagine. Is it a prototype vehicle, a standard road legal vehicle, or is it a specially modified racing version of a standard road car?”
 

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:ROFLMAO: EV blog whining about state EV tax since state won’t collect gas tax.

Too funny. Whiney whiney :cry::LOL:

 

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I know that Tesla made a profit this quarter, but still lost $967,000,000 for the year. Interesting they hype the sales numbers but don't tell the public, at least yet, how much of the profit was from selling energy credits to Fiat. 🤔 Far more interesting is

Awan v. Tesla Inc., 19-021110, Circuit Court of Broward County, Florida.



Tesla crashes. Occupant can't open the door, claim is occupant was still alive. Police can't open door. Fire reignites spontaneously multiple time. Watch the video out of NBC Miami 6.

SmartPhone Car? It WILL be a major disaster. This is the beginning. Expect far worse. Lithium technology? Its just beginning. Pintos all over again. As more cars are sold, regardless of who makes them. To be fair Tesla is just in the lead. More crashes. More cars that are smart phones on wheels? This is going to get much worse. This video is not the Awan crash but another Tesla is Moscow

 

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Remember the discussion how EV is right now US phenomenon and the mainstream EV might happen only here, while staying mostly on the fringes almost everywhere else? This is how Golf Mk VIII unveil article starts (the first one I found on Flipboard, not picking)

"The eighth-generation Volkswagen Golf, which you’ll see called “MK VIII,” has officially bowed in Europe with gas, diesel, hybrid and natural-gas burning powertrains. "

Now consider that VW Golf in EU is more than "Accord/Camry" used to be here before "Crossover1/SUV2" and let me know if you see the blue whale in the refrigerator. Or elephant in the room if whale is too hard to see.

Now a question ... U.S. has not exactly been called Saudi Arabia of electricity, but it was called that (Saudi Arabia of ...) regarding another energy source. Guess which one? That's easy, the one LEAST used to power vehicles. We're geniuses. Certified geniuses. How would we have gone to the moon otherwise?
 

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"U.S. sales, which account for the biggest share of the company’s total revenue, fell to $3.13 billion from $5.13 billion a year earlier." :oops: Uh oh

"Tesla did not respond to a Reuters request for comment on the reason for the fall in the U.S. market." :unsure: Why is Tesla keeping quiet not talking to the media?

"The filing shows warranty adjustments and other one-time items are a large driver of perceived strength, Roth Capital analyst Craig Irwin said, who downgraded stock to “sell” from “neutral”, adding that he sees margins as unsustainable."


Is this the one time Fiat credits?
 

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This seems relevant to this Tesla EV thing.


The short version is that "General Motors Co (GM.N), Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T), Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS), and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI), ... Mazda (7261.T), Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), Kia Motors Corp (000270.KS) and Subaru Co (9778.T)." have effectively told the CA that they are no longer "special". No more a single state gets special treatment for emissions rules.

Notice the German companies aren't in their (BMW, MB, and VAG). Take a guess why not. 🤔Could it be because Europe is done? Meanwhile Japas, Korea, and at least GM (not yet Ford) thinks otherwise.
 

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This seems relevant to this Tesla EV thing.


The short version is that "General Motors Co (GM.N), Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T), Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS), and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI), ... Mazda (7261.T), Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), Kia Motors Corp (000270.KS) and Subaru Co (9778.T)." have effectively told the CA that they are no longer "special". No more a single state gets special treatment for emissions rules.

Notice the German companies aren't in their (BMW, MB, and VAG). Take a guess why not. 🤔Could it be because Europe is done? Meanwhile Japas, Korea, and at least GM (not yet Ford) thinks otherwise.
And right on queue the EV blogs (I view propagandists) are whining about it.


Mean Toyota siding with the US Government. 😢 Except its far more than Toyota.

"Global Automakers’ membership also includes Aston Martin, Cruise (subsidiary of GM), Ferrari, Hyundai, Honda, Isuzu, KIA, Maserati (subsidiary of FCA), McLaren, Nissan, Groupe PSA (Peugeot), Subaru, and Suzuki."

In Europe, Toyota is in a prime position NOT to be fined or a minimal fine, in 2018 being 4 grams over the 95g limit.


"Toyota Motor Corp., maker of the Prius and several other hybrids, was the only automaker to see its emissions fall last year in Europe, according to Jato."

JATO:

https://www.jato.com/2021-co2-targets-would-generate-e34-billion-euros-in-penalty-payments-within-europe/
 

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And right on queue the EV blogs (I view propagandists) are whining about it.


Mean Toyota siding with the US Government. 😢 Except its far more than Toyota.

"Global Automakers’ membership also includes Aston Martin, Cruise (subsidiary of GM), Ferrari, Hyundai, Honda, Isuzu, KIA, Maserati (subsidiary of FCA), McLaren, Nissan, Groupe PSA (Peugeot), Subaru, and Suzuki."

In Europe, Toyota is in a prime position NOT to be fined or a minimal fine, in 2018 being 4 grams over the 95g limit.


"Toyota Motor Corp., maker of the Prius and several other hybrids, was the only automaker to see its emissions fall last year in Europe, according to Jato."

JATO:

https://www.jato.com/2021-co2-targets-would-generate-e34-billion-euros-in-penalty-payments-within-europe/
So how did I miss that this entire emissions thing was the latest tax grab!? :LOL:
 

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OMG, this was good, I suspected as much from rumours that I have heard, but to see it first hand in this video, absolutely amazing, I thought there was some type of federal law that prohibits a manufacturer from withholding information needed for repairs and making parts available?
Nope. Ask farmers about John Deere. They can’t service their own tractors. Or Porsche — our cars are locked up and you need a Russian hacked PIWIS before you can do anything. I mean, you can’t even buy a replacement radio from eBay and install it without the help of a dealer...

Also, WTF was this guy thinking with his Sprinter conversion? Just get a trailer hitch and a utility trailer for your model 3, or worse-case do some serious chassis mod. The last thing I would try was completely disassembling both cars and making some a mashup of both of them. Guy is nuts (or his customer is).
 

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Nope. Ask farmers about John Deere. They can’t service their own tractors. Or Porsche — our cars are locked up and you need a Russian hacked PIWIS before you can do anything. I mean, you can’t even buy a replacement radio from eBay and install it without the help of a dealer...

Also, WTF was this guy thinking with his Sprinter conversion? Just get a trailer hitch and a utility trailer for your model 3, or worse-case do some serious chassis mod. The last thing I would try was completely disassembling both cars and making some a mashup of both of them. Guy is nuts (or his customer is).
Yes, I read about that in the IEEE, John Deere was found to be in contravention of US Copyright Laws ruling in 2015 that the owners have a right to repair their own tractor, John Deere had said that the farmers have only "an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle"... a year later in 2016 John Deere was still at it amending their End User Licensing Agreement to read that the buyer gives up all control over the electronics within the machine-including sensors, actuators, and computing units, as well as data, documentation and diagnostics. What's more, the buyer is assumed to agree to the contract simply by switching on the machine!

It was a very interesting article about many products that have been locked down by the manufacturer to prevent you from attempting your own repair or having it repaired by an un-authorized repair facility, it was an eye opener. You think that you own it (what ever 'it' is), you may be surprised how weak a position you may be in if you try to fix it or modify it in any way and then seek help from the manufacturer...
 

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:ROFLMAO: EV blog whining about state EV tax since state won’t collect gas tax.

Too funny. Whiney whiney :cry::LOL:

Chows the problem with MOST of these EV taxes is that they are flat taxes and taxed at a rate 2-3x (in one case 10x) HIGHER than the gas tax imposed on ICE drivers for the same purpose (fixing roads etc.) The other issue is that slapping a large tax on EV drivers is a disincentive to purchase an EV and the money raised by the government is a fraction of what the government would take in if it raised the gas tax only 1 penny a gallon. In other words this taxes are not fair, nor are they well thought out. It is a $$$ grab plain and simple.
 

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I know that Tesla made a profit this quarter, but still lost $967,000,000 for the year. Interesting they hype the sales numbers but don't tell the public, at least yet, how much of the profit was from selling energy credits to Fiat. 🤔 Far more interesting is

Awan v. Tesla Inc., 19-021110, Circuit Court of Broward County, Florida.



Tesla crashes. Occupant can't open the door, claim is occupant was still alive. Police can't open door. Fire reignites spontaneously multiple time. Watch the video out of NBC Miami 6.

SmartPhone Car? It WILL be a major disaster. This is the beginning. Expect far worse. Lithium technology? Its just beginning. Pintos all over again. As more cars are sold, regardless of who makes them. To be fair Tesla is just in the lead. More crashes. More cars that are smart phones on wheels? This is going to get much worse. This video is not the Awan crash but another Tesla is Moscow

Chows,
There is NO proof that the doors could not be opened. The interior of the car has normal door handles, if the guy was alive, why is he not opening the door? Often times in crashes doors cannot be opened because the car buckles and the doors jam. You know what people do then? Break the glass! There is no guarantee that is the door had some other kind of handle that the door would still have opened if they had become jammed. First responders are equipped for this, this isn't a new problem, it is simply a case of some lawyer wanting to make a $$ and claiming Tesla is at fault so people will click on the article. People don't ever stop and think who was at fault in the accident? Take the guy suing Tesla because he claims his son "should" have been able to survive a 117mph crash but didn't. What kind of logic is that? Maybe the father should have taught the son NOT to drive 117mph? (actual speeds were higher prior to impact). You crash a car at 100+ MPH and you want the car maker to guarantee that you will survive? You better have that instant foam safety system shown in Demolition Man then if you want even a chance, claims like that are just ridiculous. The equation is pretty simple, mile for mile, day in and day out, a Tesla is the statistically safest car you can be driving. Is it 100% perfect? Nope, and guess what, no other vehicle is either.
 

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Seems that Top Gear doesn't know how to launch a Model S :) :) :)


The good news for Model S owners is that another 50hp is one the way shortly for FREE! (Can't imagine Porsche EVER doing that...) :)
 

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Chows the problem with MOST of these EV taxes is that they are flat taxes and taxed at a rate 2-3x (in one case 10x) HIGHER than the gas tax imposed on ICE drivers for the same purpose (fixing roads etc.) The other issue is that slapping a large tax on EV drivers is a disincentive to purchase an EV and the money raised by the government is a fraction of what the government would take in if it raised the gas tax only 1 penny a gallon. In other words this taxes are not fair, nor are they well thought out. It is a $$$ grab plain and simple.
IMHO EV's should not be subsidized by low or no taxes or government incentives, sink or swim... All vehicles that use the road should pay road tax, if EV's are such a great idea then we should not have to pay people to buy them!

And lets not mix this with any talk of ICE corporate bail outs either ;) , another discussion entirely!
 

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Chows the problem with MOST of these EV taxes is that they are flat taxes and taxed at a rate 2-3x (in one case 10x) HIGHER than the gas tax imposed on ICE drivers for the same purpose (fixing roads etc.) The other issue is that slapping a large tax on EV drivers is a disincentive to purchase an EV and the money raised by the government is a fraction of what the government would take in if it raised the gas tax only 1 penny a gallon. In other words this taxes are not fair, nor are they well thought out. It is a $$$ grab plain and simple.
:ROFLMAO: I find that site whining amusing. They are begging:cry: Its not helping your cause.

"Pennsylvania should invoke the spirit — and discoveries — of its founding father and seize independence by going all-in on electric vehicles. Help make that happen."

Where is the federal government recouping lost gas tax from EVs to maintain insterstates? Its 18.4 cent/gallon. They should not get a free ride. The Feds need to implement a federal tax on EVs.

Now the states. OK, what state is taxing EVs at 2 - 3 x the rate, or 10x? I can't find any. All the blogs point to Consumer Reports, which fanboys love or hate dependent upon if CR is dumping on their object of adoration.


Look at the map. https://article.images.consumerreports.org/f_auto/prod/content/dam/CRO Images 2019/Cars/September/CR-Cars-Inline-EV-Fees-Infographic-2x-9-19

The greatest is AZ at 1.91 X. Now lets look at that map a bit deeper. What states are taxing at a high rate. Hmm 🤔 IMO its not a money grab. Its punishment. Except for WA, a blue state, and WI/NH, purple states, they are all red! Imagine that. Now why is that? I've said a long time ago when I used to discuss "global warming" that the BIGGEST mistakes those that believe global warming matters were

1. Politicizing the subject and making it a platform for a major party, and
2. Hiring terrible salespeople.

Look at the Map. Hmm. I wonder which states appear to be punishing EVs. Could it be political? Want to blame someone for the disparate taxes? Blame the people who politicized the scientific subject putting it in party platforms. They immediately lost half the country.

BTW, about disincentives. The US produces 15.69% of the worlds CO2. Transportation makes up 29% and cars 59% of that from the US Gov. So if every car registered in the US today, all 270,000,000 magically became electric, the world would eliminate a whopping 2.68% of the CO2. Effectively, nothing. Wonder if those EV blogs ever talk about that? 😉

To be serious here, I think all vehicles should pay equally to maintain the roads, not discriminated against or for in any manner. It really is too bad this subject was politicized. Those that did that had to know that they would immediately lose half the country and now you see it, IMO, in a simple map.
 

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Chows,
There is NO proof that the doors could not be opened. The interior of the car has normal door handles, if the guy was alive, why is he not opening the door? Often times in crashes doors cannot be opened because the car buckles and the doors jam. You know what people do then? Break the glass! There is no guarantee that is the door had some other kind of handle that the door would still have opened if they had become jammed. First responders are equipped for this, this isn't a new problem, it is simply a case of some lawyer wanting to make a $$ and claiming Tesla is at fault so people will click on the article.
That could be. Expect it to get MUCH worse. The more market penetration, the worse this is going to get. Lithium fires and smart phones cars will be a nightmare for the companies that promote them. Think Pintos. And a goldmine for the lawyers.

Take the guy suing Tesla because he claims his son "should" have been able to survive a 117mph crash but didn't. What kind of logic is that?
I read that and ignored it. :) Here's the problem with that, IMO, in general, not specifically this case but the problem with some people. Some people"

1. have no clue as to how things work. They might see an auto race, see a terrible crash, and the driver walks away. But they have no clue as to the fire suppression in the car, the roll cages, the fireproof suits, shoes, helmet, etc. And expect they can do that in a consumer car.

2. think movies and TV are real. Its "CSI Effect". Sure everything you see on TV is real. :rolleyes: The problem is, the inexperienced truly believe fiction is real.

So yeah, hit an immovable object at 117, not a good idea. Hence I ignored that one. :)
 

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IMHO EV's should not be subsidized by low or no taxes or government incentives, sink or swim... All vehicles that use the road should pay road tax, if EV's are such a great idea then we should not have to pay people to buy them!

And lets not mix this with any talk of ICE corporate bail outs either ;) , another discussion entirely!
Edit: long day of classes which followed a long work week and I wasn’t being very articulate. Let me be more succinct.

I think if we replace every ICE vehicle on the road tomorrow with EVs without adding any new taxes that our governments would still be better off financially.

Why? Oil spills, coolant spills, gasoline spills, air pollution and associated health care costs, pipelines, tanker ships, global conflict (military costs), and on and on and on.

Gas taxes don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. Neither do EV subsidies. The cost of petroleum as a source of kinetic energy is completely ridiculous. We can crunch the numbers, but I’ve had a long week.
 

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Edit: long day of classes which followed a long work week and I wasn’t being very articulate. Let me be more succinct.

I think if we replace every ICE vehicle on the road tomorrow with EVs without adding any new taxes that our governments would still be better off financially.

Why? Oil spills, coolant spills, gasoline spills, air pollution and associated health care costs, pipelines, tanker ships, global conflict (military costs), and on and on and on.

Gas taxes don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. Neither do EV subsidies. The cost of petroleum as a source of kinetic energy is completely ridiculous. We can crunch the numbers, but I’ve had a long week.
In the long term petroleum will likely go away as a major energy source, the change is inevitable, however in the short term I don't feel it is fair for today's' tax paying citizens to subsidize electric cars, and those electric cars need to need to support the infrastructure they drive on. I believe that your statement will not have a significant relevance until some time into the future...

Not everybody can have an electric car, sure charging stations are being added but they are not in a lot of areas for those that live and work a long way outside major transportation corridors, heck most people don't own a car either for personal use or work either, trucks and van for tradespeople and the like are everywhere, even my job has me in a truck (right now). Add to this a lot of the driving public don't buy new vehicles of any type, they are the re-use, recyclers of the society, buying older cast off's to go about their daily business.

We will get there, no harm in working towards it, but with a fair burden of cost ownership, everybody who plays should pay, electric or ICE.
 

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I think if we replace every ICE vehicle on the road tomorrow with EVs without adding any new taxes that our governments would still be better off financially.

Why? Oil spills, coolant spills, gasoline spills, air pollution and associated health care costs, pipelines, tanker ships, global conflict (military costs), and on and on and on.

The cost of petroleum as a source of kinetic energy is completely ridiculous. We can crunch the numbers, but I’ve had a long week.
I'd like to see those numbers, hard data. When oil is discussed, its ability to create energy is measured in Calorific content. That value for Li-on is up to 100 times less than gasoline. Some of that is made up by the efficiency of an electric motor but doubtful it will ever compete. All the energy in gasoline is self contained in the liquid. Meanwhile batteries are just a storage container. The energy is produced at some other power station. Kinetic energy is energy in relation to motion. You can calculate how much kinetic energy is released if a 3100 lb Cayman hits an immovable object at 117 MPH. :) (1,923,370 Joules)

As to costs, replacing all 270,000,000 registered vehicles in the US mean, please include everything, the entire holistic calculation in each sector. These are real people, real lives, and not some fantasy predictions based upon computer simulations.

167,000 employees work in gas stations. The number of employees the last 5 years is increasing. Where do they go?
10,300,000 employees work in the US oil industry in some capacity.
Worldwide, 15,000,000 employees service cars. Where do they go since electric cars have no ICE engines?

Now to the Oil spills, coolant spills, gasoline spills, air pollution and associated health care costs, pipelines, tanker ships,

Each of those industries (e.g. health) employ people. Now CA is different than the US because of your socialized medicine and I assume pipelines and tankers fall under the general Oil Industry, but whoever is left is employed indirectly because of the Oil Industry. Calculate those lost jobs.

Now move on to international economic damage. How many jobs and lives would be disrupted if the US (and CA) was no longer involved in the Oil Industry? How much damage would that to global GDP? What kind of depression would that cost?

The final calculations is how much damage would this do to the GDP? All those jobs lost? All those people? Will they be living on the dole? On the taxes of others to support them? This isn't a simple calculation. And sure, you need to calculate the costs you might save from less pollution.


I have no doubt that air pollution is a health problem, but its nowhere near what it used to be in 1970 LA. Since the academics are arguing among themselves, there is no "scientific consensus", just mad academics no one believes them with blind faith.

You want to get low hanging fruit, go to the SOURCE: China. The US and CA, in comparison, is a joke. Just look at the map.


global conflict (military costs),

I left this to last. Since the USA has none of the natural resources for electrons for fuel, and some people do study history, whats going to happen in this fantasy world of electrons for fuel based on lithium technology when the world goes to war for some reason (e.g., India/Pakistan, Israel/Arab) pick a conflict. You all think the Congo isn't going to get invaded for its Cobalt? You don't think the Rare Earths will get cut off by China? How about the Graphite?

You will see massive military conflict like never before. Lithium base tech versus oil is a MASSIVE, huge, disruption of everything from the mining, to the supply chain, to the logistics, to the front end serving of the transportation sector and everything in-between.

No sovereign nation will ever allow itself to be dependent upon another nation when it already has the resources it needs. It was a primary reason for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, for Germany taking Romania and a reason for invading part of Russia. This has become so ludicrous. Have you noticed that when Iran seized a couple of tankers the US didn't blink an eye? What would have happened if that was 1973 or 1979. WWIII? Why did the US not blink an eye. Energy independence.

Lets see the simulated costs for WWIII based on lithium tech batteries. What will be the costs for taking the Cobalt mines, taking the lithium fields, the graphite mines, and securing the rare earth mines. How many tanks, how many planes, how many human deaths. What will the death toll be? How many US or Canadian young lives will be lost to secure the natural resources when the next war comes when the country has none of the resource to transport goods and people. These deaths won't be "predictions" that somebody took 6 months of their life because of pollution. No, they will body bags coming into Dover. Who is going to explain that to the parents of their loved ones lost because someone threw away the natural resources?

Yeah. I'd like to see the total calculation, particurlary about the things the electric vehicle blogs never discuss.

:) Holistic costs, all things, health, GDP, war, lost jobs, personal costs to human being losing their jobs, etc.

Sorry, if this sounds :mad: Its more like:unsure: This is very complicated. International ramifications. Human ramifications. Economic ramifications. Its all part of this.
 
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