Planet-9 Porsche Forum banner

1401 - 1420 of 1454 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Chris Harris preview of the Taycan Turbo:

Somebody please gives Chris Harris only an oxcart or a FWD to review for the next 6 months. Guy needs a rehab really badly.

Frankly, I am so tired of their antics that I might not even watch the review. Yeah, grumpy old man, but still ... there is always a proper way to do things and a wrong way to do things. If the point is going fast, that is exactly how NOT to do it. If the point is how to get from A to B while being gentle to planet Earth, that is exactly how NOT to do it. Worst part of it is that people like Chris Harris know better. Not to mention how sick I am with glorifying of ignorance which videos like this propagate like wild fire.

Carry on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
PCA Nat'l DE Instructor
Joined
·
1,784 Posts
Agreed. I didn't even bother to watch the video.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
Huge mistake to have a car that is a "smartphone". Big mistake


TL;DR Tesla removes an option remotely that was bought with the car. Can you imagine have some option in your car and your dealer coming to your driveway to remove that option? Not a fluke. Referenced in the article was this


Wait until the time comes, if the time comes, it becomes profitable to use ransomware on these kinds of cars. No amount of testing by Tesla will mean anything once it becomes profitable for the criminals (this is not to be alarmist, only to recognize what is real life).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,400 Posts
Huge mistake to have a car that is a "smartphone". Big mistake


TL;DR Tesla removes an option remotely that was bought with the car. Can you imagine have some option in your car and your dealer coming to your driveway to remove that option? Not a fluke. Referenced in the article was this


Wait until the time comes, if the time comes, it becomes profitable to use ransomware on these kinds of cars. No amount of testing by Tesla will mean anything once it becomes profitable for the criminals (this is not to be alarmist, only to recognize what is real life).
Wow, I am amazed, not that it can happen, but rather that it does, and seemingly the owner is left to prove that they actually paid for the option, again wow!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
914 Posts
Huge mistake to have a car that is a "smartphone". Big mistake.
LOL! Keep your wooden shoes on my young friend... Tesla has increased my range, increased the performance of my car, added one pedal driving (which I love), added entertainment options like TuneIn and Spotify, created the best anti-theft system I have ever seen, added auto park (you have to see it work to believe it), added dash cam capability, improved charging speed, and about 50 other features that I don’t care about for exactly $0.

If you want to throw your shoes into the machine because a third-party dealer sold a feature to someone that was never actually paid for then you don’t get to play with the machine.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
Tesla has increased my range, increased the performance of my car, added one pedal driving (which I love), added entertainment options like TuneIn and Spotify, created the best anti-theft system I have ever seen, added auto park (you have to see it work to believe it), added dash cam capability, improved charging speed, and about 50 other features that I don’t care about for exactly $0.
And with a click of a button, that which was given can be taken away. It staggers me that people actually allow a company, after you buy a product, to have such power over your life.

Check out how many local town governments are under ransomware attack. Its become a booming business. And government is paying the kidnapping demands. Canada government


Canadian company in January, 2020


Its coming. The more successful "smart cars" become, the greater the probability it will happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Its coming. The more successful "smart cars" become, the greater the probability it will happen.
I think this is an interesting point. After 100 years of battles, we finally got extremely close to "starts every time and gets you where you need to go" using ICE.

Going electric made that above close to 99.95%. Going connected compromised it possibly worse than adding carburator, spark plugs and distribution cap.

Ubelievable in how many not-so-mysterious ways The Second finds its way in our lives. One ring to rule them all, all right

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts

There are some 111,000 gas stations in the United States.

No, there are over 121,000 convenience stores ALONE selling gas. That does not include traditional gas stations.


Has fake news now crept into the automotive news?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
Name one other product you buy where the seller can add or delete something from the property you own, meaning functionality. By this I mean you physically have control over the property.

If you use a web based license where the products checks your licenses on a server, I can see them limited your functionality. This is the very reason why products like Adobe in the cloud are not well received. If its physical, there is no way they can take functionality from you, This OTA nonsense will be the doom of "smart cars". Criminals will take advantage of it no matter what anyone says.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
LOL! Keep your wooden shoes on my young friend... Tesla has increased my range, increased the performance of my car, added one pedal driving (which I love), added entertainment options like TuneIn and Spotify, created the best anti-theft system I have ever seen, added auto park (you have to see it work to believe it), added dash cam capability, improved charging speed, and about 50 other features that I don’t care about for exactly $0.

If you want to throw your shoes into the machine because a third-party dealer sold a feature to someone that was never actually paid for then you don’t get to play with the machine.
:LOL: It looks like Tesla has given this owner back the option.

a third-party dealer sold a feature to someone that was never actually paid for then you don’t get to play with the machine.

The feature was paid for. Tesla removed it. :oops:


he was contacted by a Tesla customer experience rep who “apologized for my troubles, told me that Tesla has restored all missed options” and “cited a miscommunication”

That's fine, everyone makes mistakes. I hope Tesla compensated the customer for his aggravation for something that made the automotive news. But there's more. There's always more, buried in the article.

"Tesla has removed features from used cars in the past" :rolleyes:

Why? Why would a company ever remove an option once the car was sold? Can you imagine buying Adaptive Cruise for your new Porsche only to have it removed when the car was sold used?

Consumers will rue the day they ever let a company control their personal possessions in this manner. But, it gets worse.


Tesla is starting to force new software updates on owners who have been resisting them as the company threatens to soon remove some functionalities. ... some owners decided to simply not accept newer updates when Tesla started pushing them.

🤣 Biggest mistake ever to have any company control the second most expensive purchase a person makes (a car) remotely. You will regret it, especially if these kinds of care become prevalent in the industry.

This is the reason people keep old Mac O/S versions running rather than constantly updating every year. Functionality is removed. No longer support Software X? Oops. This is the reason you do not buy cloud based subscriptions to software. Instead buy the hard copy version.

OTA updates :LOL: What they give, they can take away. But worse, so can't the criminals.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
I see Bill Gates made his choice and Elon Musk doesn't like it :LOL:


And ohh, poor Germany. Go EV, lose your job

Shades of Detroit? Germany's auto heartlands in peril as 'golden age' fades

"A malaise in Germany’s mighty automobile industry, caused by weaker demand from abroad, stricter emission rules and electrification, is starting to leave a wider mark on Europe’s largest economy by pushing up unemployment, eroding job security and hitting pay.

“It’s a nightmare. ... The German auto sector is expected to cut nearly a tenth of its 830,000 jobs in the next decade ... Some think-tanks and government officials fear that the toll will be higher as electric cars provide less assembly work than combustion engine vehicles, simple work steps are replaced by automation and companies relocate production."


Germany missing a recession by "this much",


The flat fourth quarter data shows that Germany has narrowly avoided a recession - defined as two consecutive quarters of declining growth. It does not bode well for Europe,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Can Taycan compete with Tesla? Of course it can! It burns just as hot and it blows up to boot!



And so it starts ... To paraphrase one of the fictional Gold Coast inhabitants, Florida seems unsuitable not just for human inhabitation :)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,098 Posts
If you use a web based license where the products checks your licenses on a server, I can see them limited your functionality. This is the very reason why products like Adobe in the cloud are not well received.
The Abobe Creative Cloud is well loved by the many creative professionals I know, who are the core target customers for the service. For a yearly fee less than it used to cost to own just Photoshop (and also pay for ongoing upgrades) users get a suite of a 15+ apps that are regularly upgraded at no additional cost. I pay for a half dozen accounts for my lead creative staff, and having been in the dev and design biz for 30+ years the Creative Cloud model is immeasurably better for owners and workers in terms of cost and efficiency than the old pay-per-app system. None of our computers have had DVD drives for some time, and using cloud-based products and services is the norm for professionals. (To be precise, Creative Cloud isn't a true SaaS service; the apps run from the local HD and the login/authorization process in managed by Adobe.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
None of our computers have had DVD drives for some time, and using cloud-based products and services is the norm for professionals.
Look, I am pretty sure what you are describing is really good. Like PDK (another faboulous concept and technological tour de force), it is great, it works great but it should not be deployed everywhere.

I started in the company I work for while I still lived in Italy. I started with making technical documentation and manuals. Year was 1998. We would LINK digital pictures to the Word file while digital pictures themselves resided on the company network. This to avoid overwhelming network drives with unnecessary weight. When you needed to edit a Word document with 20+ digital images linked, you would open the file then take a coffee break before it populated all the images and you could start working on it.

Today, 22 years later, I am using Microsoft XRM product and Word365 to manage project documents. To open a Word document, I need to first start Web app, connect to XRM, request the document which then two additional Web residing apps are retrieving from database linked depository - all of it on Web. Then Word365 takes it sweet time to find all the references and populate the document.

The difference from 1998? It takes about the same time, the difference is that you need to keep clicking and cannot walk out to get a coffee.

Just like PDK, it for sure works great in certain applications, with certain users and in certain power range. But that doesn't mean it should be deployed everywhere and to everybody. I, for one, do not need all of that I just described. A strong and fast connection with mother ship network to retrieve information/documents I need in miliseconds would work just fine as far as I am concerned.

But that is just me.

/End OT.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,098 Posts
Yeah, M
Look, I am pretty sure what you are describing is really good. Like PDK (another faboulous concept and technological tour de force), it is great, it works great but it should not be deployed everywhere.

I started in the company I work for while I still lived in Italy. I started with making technical documentation and manuals. Year was 1998. We would LINK digital pictures to the Word file while digital pictures themselves resided on the company network. This to avoid overwhelming network drives with unnecessary weight. When you needed to edit a Word document with 20+ digital images linked, you would open the file then take a coffee break before it populated all the images and you could start working on it.

Today, 22 years later, I am using Microsoft XRM product and Word365 to manage project documents. To open a Word document, I need to first start Web app, connect to XRM, request the document which then two additional Web residing apps are retrieving from database linked depository - all of it on Web. Then Word365 takes it sweet time to find all the references and populate the document.

The difference from 1998? It takes about the same time, the difference is that you need to keep clicking and cannot walk out to get a coffee.

Just like PDK, it for sure works great in certain applications, with certain users and in certain power range. But that doesn't mean it should be deployed everywhere and to everybody. I, for one, do not need all of that I just described. A strong and fast connection with mother ship network to retrieve information/documents I need in miliseconds would work just fine as far as I am concerned.

But that is just me.

/End OT.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Yeah, Microsoft. The Tiptronic of the tech world with proprietary extra-cost paddle shifters that routinely lose their wireless connection to the Bluetooth receiver that’s zip-tied to the transmission.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
The Abobe Creative Cloud is well loved by the many creative professionals I know, who are the core target customers for the service. For a yearly fee less than it used to cost to own just Photoshop (and also pay for ongoing upgrades) users get a suite of a 15+ apps that are regularly upgraded at no additional cost. I pay for a half dozen accounts for my lead creative staff, and having been in the dev and design biz for 30+ years the Creative Cloud model is immeasurably better for owners and workers in terms of cost and efficiency than the old pay-per-app system. None of our computers have had DVD drives for some time, and using cloud-based products and services is the norm for professionals. (To be precise, Creative Cloud isn't a true SaaS service; the apps run from the local HD and the login/authorization process in managed by Adobe.)
Maybe I should have been much more specific. I was trying an analogy for OTA update to Adobe. In your application, a professional environment, I would equate that to a trucking company. If one ran a trucking company and wanted to ensure all the software ran the same, all the updates were made at the same time, all, the GPS and real time tracking of the trucks, maybe their fuel? etc, then yes, I can see the application.

Now to real life for the non-professional application. I meant amateurs, where say Photoshop is used to fix up a some raw photos and do some limited editing. This would equate to normal, regular drivers, not professional drivers.

So Photoshop, not the entire suite, just photoshop, is an enormous amount of overkill, massive overpriced, for what photographers need to do. Yet it was the standard so many people bought, some didn't finding elements "good enough" or other things like just Lightroom, Aperture, and a whole lot of newbies in the market. Yet photoshop was the standard.

At that time, go read all the whining. You could do a one time buy of photoshop and own it forever. Updates? 95% of photoshop was not used by 95% of these users. Look at Word or Excel. Its bloated with features 95% of users don't even know exist never mind use. Massive overkill.

So take away the ability to just keep the product, force people to use a cloud based subscription means a whole lot of irritated, mad users that just walk away and use something else.

Does this effect professional users, just like maybe professional truck driver companies? Probably not. But it definitely effects amateurs, just like OTA will effect regular drivers. Two different sets of users.

Same as the article above. Tesla forcing updates on users. Not good.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
The fundamental issue here is ownership of the product. Allowing anyone, any other party, to control what you own, especially remotely, means you own nothing.

Having "updates" forced on you is not ownership

Allowing the ability for criminals to gain access to what you own, via what a third party does, in an invitation to disaster. All there needs to be is profit in it and someone will find a way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
914 Posts
The fundamental issue here is ownership of the product. Allowing anyone, any other party, to control what you own, especially remotely, means you own nothing.
I don’t like that either, but the kids do. I’ve asked them. They don’t want to own a car even, they just want one available when they need it.

Having "updates" forced on you is not ownership
That’s not how it works. Tesla makes an update available and gives you a list of everything that has changed. You get to decide if and when you install it. You could buy a Tesla and never update it if you were into that sort of thing.

Allowing the ability for criminals to gain access to what you own, via what a third party does, in an invitation to disaster. All there needs to be is profit in it and someone will find a way.
Tesla offers free cars to people at hackathons if they can break into their cars. They run these all the time, the last one was in Vancouver very recently. You’re right in that this is theoretically possible, but it seems to me like you’re spending a lot of time thinking about a doomsday scenario than is warranted.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,996 Posts
That’s not how it works. Tesla makes an update available and gives you a list of everything that has changed. You get to decide if and when you install it. You could buy a Tesla and never update it if you were into that sort of thing.
Then why are these owners rebelling against it?


Tesla is starting to force new software updates on owners who have been resisting them ... some Tesla owners have been resisting newer software updates for a variety of different reasons. ...

some owners refused new software updates after Tesla issued an update that limited range and Supercharging in some older Model S vehicles “in order to protect the battery pack. Now it looks like those Tesla owners who have been resisting new software updates might not have much of a choice to accept them anymore.

Many of the features that Tesla claims would be deactivated if they don’t update are considered essential in the Tesla ownership experience.


That sure sounds like they are forcing the issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Tesla offers free cars to people at hackathons if they can break into their cars. They run these all the time, the last one was in Vancouver very recently. You’re right in that this is theoretically possible, but it seems to me like you’re spending a lot of time thinking about a doomsday scenario than is warranted.
Right now, you are spot on. That said ...

If 2,000 years of cryptography taught us anything, it is the fact that no mesaage is unbreakable. It goes from sloppy encriotion, to genius like Turing to $1.25 .45 ACP round in the barrel of the gun pointed to someone's child head.

All of the above is purely academic for now. However, if effort - gain equation changes quickly, I don't see why someone wouldn't spend $5,000 on the Web to get the kit that allows them to ransomware 1,000 car owners for $100 each in one morning. Everybody would pay, ROI would be 2,000% for 4 hours of work. Plausible? You better believe it. They are doing it right now picking entities who have most to lose and rewards high enough.

I would go as far to say that every one of us here has good enough reason to leave the home in the morning - a reason that is worth way more than $100 all things considered.

Anyhow, back to the principle of things ... I agree with chow in principle. I am old enough to be disdained with Silicon Valley mentality. While they infuriate me while being forced to use their products to work, it worries me even more when they want to cross-breed with products that were always traditionally planned well, projects executed in 5 years span and very, very thouroghly tested before being unleashed to unsuspecting public.

Reason being, there were no "updates" or "improvements" to cover for brainless planning and fundamental lack of understanding of laws of nature - the second law of thermodynamics to start with. Just my opinion, of course.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
1401 - 1420 of 1454 Posts
Top