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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday was my first exp with Nittos 01, and I did not like the ride. I am using a TPC stage 2 suspension in my CS,and started off 31 cold finished with 38-40 hot. They felt slippery, and mushy around the turns, at Shenadoah track which has abiut 20 turns, not a fun day. I am coming from PS2, and stock suspension, and liked that feal better more predictable around the turns. The car did not feel right mushy, soft, etc. I hope I am giving you guys enough info , but it was not good. Thanks
 

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Not sure exactly what you mean by mushy, but I can tell you that they get very loose (slippy) at pressures over 40. How quickly did you check your hot pressures after the session? The NT01s are so universally praised (and superior on the track to PS2s) that it leads me to believe that either your hot pressures were over 40, or there is something funky going on with your new suspension set-up.

FWIW, I used to start at 30F and 28R on my NT01s to get up to around 37-38 hot by the end of my first session on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I really can only compare to my PS2 which going into the turns felt predictable, the tire felt "hard", I knew what the car was going to do. Yesterday going into the turns the tire or ride felt soft, slippery, almost like a marshmellow feeling was not sure what the car was going to do. I did ck right after and was at 38-40 hot. Would start at 31 cold.

Mike seems to know what he is doing at TPC when it comes to setting up a car. I see the bars are set at semi stiff settings. Who knows this is only my second year, maybe Rcomps you have to get the tire pressure just right on for the tire to work . Thanks for your help.
 

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Talk to TPC about it. They will help you sort it out. Also brand new tires with big tred blocks do feel a little squishey. But the Nittos alway felt like a huge improvement in grip over PS2's for me.
 

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The NT01's will feel slippery either when they are cold, on a very cold track, or when their pressure rises to 40 psi or above. I start at 26 - 28 psi to reach 37 - 38 hot. I always check tire pressure in pit lane, before I pull off the track into the paddock. Yes, they are a little more "spongy" when brand new but they still should feel very sticky.
 

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I assume TPC knew you were to use NT-01s and set the alignment accordingly. NT-01s, similar to RA-1s, have softer side walls and need more camber than, for example, R888. Also, I heard that the first first few sessions feel greasy, but as the treads wear down, they firm up; so, if the tires weren't shaved before use, I would guess that they will get better as they get used.
 

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I assume TPC knew you were to use NT-01s and set the alignment accordingly. NT-01s, similar to RA-1s, have softer side walls and need more camber than, for example, R888. Also, I heard that the first first few sessions feel greasy, but as the treads wear down, they firm up; so, if the tires weren't shaved before use, I would guess that they will get better as they get used.
I like the feel of my Nitto NT01s at 36 hot all around. I, too, wonder about your camber; do you know what they were able to get, front and rear? On lowered (with H&R springs, about 1.25 in. down all around) suspension, I was able to get -1.5 front and -2.5 rear. The Nittos really feel good now and that's after about 14 heat cycles. I also noticed them to be greasy when brand new and tire pressures at 40+. Lowering the pressures to 36 hot made an immediate improvement. Now that some of the tread has worn down (have the two longitudinal lines showing, but most other side tread is now smooth), I REALLY like them.
 

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I am also a new Nitto user. I now have 7 track days (maybe 26 sessions) on them and the fronts have no marking other than the lines that run in the direction of travel. I reversed them on the rims after 5 days so I'm wearing the other edges. I can still slightly make out the dimples on what is now the outsdie edges.

I have a base Cayman, stock suspension, with no front camber at all.

Anyone think I can get another day or two out of these? they were still working OK on the last sessions.
 

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I agree with the guys posting above me. I start off cold 28, come in usually after 20 minutes and they are around 37. I bleed them off slightly to adjust and 2nd session is usually fantastic, come off hot 35/36 max. I have lower control arms and run 2.5 degrees of neg camber and have had no issues. If they are even around 40, I notice grip decreases greatly. What sizes are you running? OEM 18" wheels I assume?
 

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I think the pressures may have been too high, but it could also be your toe in, especially in the back, or other alignment settings. You may want to go back to the PS2s for a few sessions and see what the suspension is doing, since that is all new to you as well. (Make one change at a time to see what effect it has on handling, grip, etc.)
We like the NT01s at 36-37 hot, but first lap or 2 they will feel "soft" until you get some heat into them.
Hope that helps,
Tom
 

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Yesterday was my first exp with Nittos 01, and I did not like the ride. I am using a TPC stage 2 suspension in my CS,and started off 31 cold finished with 38-40 hot. They felt slippery, and mushy around the turns, at Shenadoah track which has abiut 20 turns, not a fun day. I am coming from PS2, and stock suspension, and liked that feal better more predictable around the turns. The car did not feel right mushy, soft, etc. I hope I am giving you guys enough info , but it was not good. Thanks
omg:

Nittos don't feel as direct as PS2. They do feel a little soft, but they stick. You have to drive them a little differently. Just because they feel "mushy" doesn't mean they are. They take a set in a corner and STICK. If they are over-inflated, they will not stick as well. You have to turn in a little slower and earlier with them.

Don't confuse road feel with grip. The fastest, grippiest tires I ever used were the old version of Goodrich Comp T/A R1, which is many years out of production. The "feel" of them was ridiculous! You had to grab the wheel with both hands. The outside sidewalls were very stiff and had a built-in camber to them. Driving the car to the track and home again, especially when it rained, was a real trip. The cornering limits of the car, however, were so much higher!!! Once you learned how to drive on them, you could get amazing laps and it was really fun.

I had to get an X-brace (under the car brace made for E36 BMWs) and a strut brace in front to keep the car from temporarily bending and changing the camber mid-turn. I also bolted in a 4 point roll bar, which stiffened the back and protected against getting squashed in a roll-over...Don't think it can't happen to you. I've seen it.

With normal tires, a strut brace wouldn't make any difference in stiffness on an M3, but when I was pushing with those R1s, it was easy to tell the difference.

Welcome to the world of race tires. They aren't made to feel good, they're made to be fast! Street tires are made to feel good so you'll want to buy them again. The ultimate dry grip isn't always the goal with most street tires, even sporty summer tires. R tires are focused on 3 things...Going fast, lasting a while and not coming apart from the heat.

That said, as NT-01s wear down a bit, they become a little more direct feeling and also stick noticeably better...and will stand pressures above 40 psi better as well. By the later sessions last time, my tires were almost out of tread. They were getting really sticky at 42psi. I left them there.

The first school or two, keep the HOT pressures a couple pounds below 40, learn to work with the "softness". It's OK that they feel like that.

All this advice about cold pressures is worthless. Get a nice little digital gage that will fit in your pocket. I use one of those little plastic ones that is shaped like a pistol grip. It's pretty thin, fits in my front pants pocket, and only takes a second to get a reading. I jump out of the car right in the hot pits after a few hot laps to check pressures, especially for the first few sessions.

If the weather gets warmer as the day goes on, I have to keep dropping the pressures to keep them around 36-38 front and rear.

At the end of the first day of a weekend, I'll add a few pounds, to each tire (same amount in each tire) either in the afternoon before I go to the motel, or in the morning (drive carefully on the street on those cold Saturday mornings, your R tires will be really low on air...in the 20's. They can take it if you don't drive like a racer. Get to the track put just a little in each tire (same amount in each) and go out cautiously for the first few laps. Come in and check pressures. They'll be close to right again. Make your adjustments and try it again. You have to check after hard laps and you have to do it once a session or so. Some days, I'll do it and the car won't feel quite right to me, over or understeering. I'll fine-tune accordingly. Usually, if one end is falling apart, it's because those tires are getting above 40 psi.

The hardest working tire will gain the most temperature and pressure as you drive the track. That means, when the tires cool down to the same temp, the hardest working ones will be the lowest pressure. That's OK. The point is to have the right pressures at working temperature (hot).

For me in my CS, that hardest working tire is the outside rear tire, On a clockwise course, that's the driver's side rear. I check that one first, then the front outside tire, then the inside rear, then the inside front.

Don't waste a lot of time driving around the pit area before you check. The tires will cool down and your readings will be low, causing you to keep too much air in the tires. Hot means the temps that the tires see when in use on track. Get as close to that as you can by checking right away.

During Instructor sessions, I frequently come in to the hot pits mid session to check air pressure, jumping out and getting my trusty plastic digital gage and bleeding air out as needed. That's the best way to do it. If I'm low only a pound or two, I make a mental note and add it after the session, but it takes no time at all to bleed pressure off. I do that as i go around the car checking.

Hope this helps. New NT-01s that have not been shaved feel a little soft. Don't worry. Go fast.

:cheers:
 
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I am also a new Nitto user. I now have 7 track days (maybe 26 sessions) on them and the fronts have no marking other than the lines that run in the direction of travel. I reversed them on the rims after 5 days so I'm wearing the other edges. I can still slightly make out the dimples on what is now the outsdie edges.

I have a base Cayman, stock suspension, with no front camber at all.

Anyone think I can get another day or two out of these? they were still working OK on the last sessions.
And:

I'd use them until they show cord. Do you have to drive home on them? I'm a little more careful if I have to drive home, but they just get better and better as they wear down. When I don't see tread, I know I'm gonna have some fun.

I've driven home on corded tires, but I had a spare back then. I might think a little harder about it without a spare.

I want a tire trailer!!!
 

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Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
We dont use nitto tires... not sure the reasoning but I have never seen a set mounted at the shop... What was your reasoning behind the choice?

I would recommend you call the shop and consult w/mike or tom regarding the change.

Casey
***************

Casey:

I got this in my mailbox but couldn't find your post on the forum. WTF?

Anyway, I like Nitto because:

1. They come in Cayman 18" sizes (245/275).

2. They don't cost a ton of money (2 NT01s = 1 PSC).

3. They stick very well. They're not Hoosier or BFG sticky, but very good. I think noise is less than Yoko A048 and that they stick better for less money.

4. They ride very well on the road for R tires and are less noisy than some including the Yoko. Some Vette club guys use them as summer tires.

Like any R tire, you have to learn how to get the best out of them, but they are a good value for track rats...and they fit.
 

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I have been trying them at 35 all around and like it alot. Also, when they slide, it is very predictable. I have 34 heat cycles on mine and still showing some tread...will see at next events when they cord or heat cycle out.
 

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I ran NT01's on my TT on track for 3 years. Nitto recommends that you run at least 2 degrees of negative camber on these tires and actually the more the better up until about 3 degrees.

You will wear out the outer edges prematurely with too little negative camber. You will also have uneven heat cycling of the tire and unpredictable grip as well.

I was running -2.6 degrees of camber in the front of my TT and it made a HUGE difference from the -1.3 I was running before.

Hot pressures will very depending on track surface as well. You also need to start taking tire temps across the face of the tire to determine if your camber and toe settings are correct.
 

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I ran Nittos for two years - eight sets, and they are the best R compounds you can buy for the Cayman. I agree with the previous posters that you need to make sure your camber settings are right - I ran about 3 deg in front and 2 deg in back with GT3 control arms, sway bars/drop links and stock PASM suspension.

The only way to get true tire pressures/temps is to come into the pits during a hot lap and have someone else there to immediately check the pressures/temps. If you can't do they, given that you should always run a cooldown lap after a hard run, by the time you get back to the paddock your pressures will be down 3-4 psi. The Nittos are best at around 36 hot, so you should be getting around 32-33 after you get back to the paddock.

My experience has been they get very slippery at right around 40 psi.
 
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