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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got this from a buddy in Cleveland. Be careful driving through Ohio.

Feff
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Officer Estimates Enough For Speeding Convictions​

By: Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Ohio's highest court has ruled that a person may be convicted of speeding purely if it looked to a police officer that the motorist was going too fast.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that an officer's visual estimation of speed is enough to support a conviction if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy, and experienced in watching for speeders.

The court's 5-1 decision says independent verification of a driver's speed is not necessary.

The court upheld a lower court's ruling against a driver who challenged a speeding conviction that had been based on testimony from police officer in Copley, 25 miles south of Cleveland. The officer said it appeared to him that the man was driving too fast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've got to think eventually someone is going to challenge this all the way to the US Supreme Court under some type of "Innocent until proven guilty" issue. This is nothing more then a revenue generator for governments that simply can't live within thier revenue (taxes) means.

Think about this in a trial, the ticket recipients canny lawyer trots out 4 police officers, showing the cars traveling by and has them guess the speed. HMMM 4 different guesses, which one is accurate?

Our government is starting to look more and more like that in the movie "Brazil".

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Yeah pretty disturbing to say the least, does appear to be in direct violation of the "innocent until proven guilty" standard that we're so familiar with.

Where was the ACLU when this was going on? Does this mean I can be convicted of murder if I look guilty?
Yes actually that post indicates you're feeling guilty so looks like you're getting 25 to life ;)
 

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Yet another example of the desperation courts are resorting to to bring in revenue to money-starved municipalities and state governments. And it is also the result of the relentless war on speed.

On a related note, I have an Escort Passport installed in my car and last year it would go off every 30 minutes on average as I passed some officer somewhere in the metro area with radar or lidar. This year, it goes off from the minute I leave my subdivision to the time I come back, so ubiquitous are the attempts to get speeding fines.

It has honestly ruined the joy of owning a high performance car for street use. I'm seriously considering selling the thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Lawmakers Pan Speeding Ticket Ruling, Working On Bill To Require Radar​

Associated Press June 9th, 2010


COLUMBUS — Two leading state lawmakers want to overturn a ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court that says police officers can write speeding tickets just by looking at a vehicle and estimating how fast it is going.

State Rep. Robert Hagan, a Democrat from Youngstown, and state Sen. Tim Grendell, a Republican from suburban Cleveland, are working on bills that would require officers to use radar or other technology to verify a vehicle’s speed before issuing a ticket.

The American Civil Liberties Union says last week’s court ruling creates the potential for abuse.

In its decision, the high court said independent verification of a driver’s speed is not necessary if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy and experienced in watching for speeders.
 

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I'm awfully curious just how fast is fast enough for an "experienced and trained" police officer to estimate someone is speeding?

I'll grant it will be easy to pick out the car going 40mph faster than traffic--and assuming traffic is moving at or near the speed limit, but are we expected to pay up for, say, an estimated 18 mph over the speed limit? 12 mph? I'm wondering what the courts think the limits of the powers of estimation are when watching traffic?

When I'm in the HOV lane (with a passenger, of course) going 4 over the speed limit passing stopped rush hour traffic in the other lanes, is that "experienced" officer going to look at my sports car and think, "Geez, he must be going way over the speed limit in a car like that!"

I don't think that bird's gonna fly once it gets out of Ohio's apparently cash-starved courts.

In the meantime, never mind radar detectors, we'll just have to work on how to look slower when driving through Ohio.
 

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I'm awfully curious just how fast is fast enough for an "experienced and trained" police officer to estimate someone is speeding?

I'll grant it will be easy to pick out the car going 40mph faster than traffic--and assuming traffic is moving at or near the speed limit, but are we expected to pay up for, say, an estimated 18 mph over the speed limit? 12 mph? I'm wondering what the courts think the limits of the powers of estimation are when watching traffic?

When I'm in the HOV lane (with a passenger, of course) going 4 over the speed limit passing stopped rush hour traffic in the other lanes, is that "experienced" officer going to look at my sports car and think, "Geez, he must be going way over the speed limit in a car like that!"

I don't think that bird's gonna fly once it gets out of Ohio's apparently cash-starved courts.

In the meantime, never mind radar detectors, we'll just have to work on how to look slower when driving through Ohio.
I doubt if law enforcement agencies can provide scientifically valid data to support the hypothesis that human beings can actually make these estimates. But I have no doubt they will try. I feel for you guys. :cheers:
 

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Well I think the Ohio State Reps will close this loop hole, as they wouldn't want a more important conviction thrown out on such a trumped up initial charge "I saw you going fast".

Anecdotal data would indicate OHP and the rest of Ohio law enforcement are still using traditional speed measuring equipment.

Be safe out there. :)
 

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Well I think the Ohio State Reps will close this loop hole, as they wouldn't want a more important conviction thrown out on such a trumped up initial charge "I saw you going fast".

Anecdotal data would indicate OHP and the rest of Ohio law enforcement are still using traditional speed measuring equipment.

Be safe out there. :)
So much for providing the spoiler "wave" as I drive through different hamlets when I visit Ohio in a couple months...I don't want them to think I'm driving 75 through a school zone even if I'm sitting at a crossing......
 
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