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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that although Porsche charges more than twice as much for a 997TT than a Cayman, it only costs them about 10 grand more to build a TT than a Cayman. Any truth to that? If so, that is quite a profit!
 

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10 Grand seems low to me. It is probably more like 20-25 grand. The 997TT would add of course the turbo system and control, the 4 wheel drive components, and the chasis /brakes all beefed up for 500 HP vs 320.

Porsche rarely does anything without a clear function, one reason many people really like their cars, and they are very systematic. So I suspect there are more other changes that do not immediately come to mind. IMHO. Ed
 

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The 997.1 TT also had the Metzger (hope I got the name right) dry sump engine block. The 997.2 uses the DFI block like the rest of the 997 and Cayman S lines that should reduce the price delta.
 

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Recently I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that although Porsche charges more than twice as much for a 997TT than a Cayman, it only costs them about 10 grand more to build a TT than a Cayman. Any truth to that? If so, that is quite a profit!
I'd believe it, or something close to it.

Brakes are more expensive on a tt than a CS?

Sure, maybe 100 euro cost delta. It's not like there are any
more parts involved, just the ones there in some cases are a bit bigger - like
the caliper assemblies and rotors. The brake pedal assembly, linkage to
the pump, vacuum assist with all its hoses etc, lines, fluid, couplers,
ABS electronics and wiring, ABS sensor ring, pad wear sensor, electronic
switches, wires to lights, light bulbs, light assemblies, labor to install,
flush, and test are all substantially the same for the two cars. Except
one of them is assembled in Finland and the other Germany and I'd wager
the labor costs are not the same but have no knowledge in that area.

You could extend this to nearly every system of the cars.

THe only substantial difference is that one of the cars has a turbo system
that adds some high cost parts and suboptimizes other areas which also
adds cost (meaning - a turbo car has an exhaust and intake system both of
which are not optimal when taken alone because they are linked physically
by the turbo(s) themselves - whereas the NA car does not have this
attribute.)

And the turbo has 2 tiny back seats - maybe 100 euros each.

A 10k euro delta? Ya I could believe it. Or maybe under 20k euros for sure.

Porsche manufactures a high quality product and their margins are
commensurate with that. The high dollar cars clearly have better margins
than the lower price cars. From the customer's point of view, the value
per cost of the 987 cars is very clearly far higher than the 997-based cars.

But MAN do I want a GT3 RS....... And that, my friends, is what supports
the high margins. Supply and demand, supply and demand.
 

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There's no doubt the margin is much larger on the TT, but I doubt it's quite that much larger. In addition to those other things, PASM, Bose, full-leather, PCM, sport seats etc. are all standard on the TT. Also just check out the differences in replacement costs for consumables such as rotors, pads, tires, etc. those are all pretty big. Apart from that, there are things that are hard to quantify such as the development cost of the turbochargers which are unique to Porsche and are not used on any other model (as far as I know) and since the volume is low, these costs are spread over a small number of units. All the parts in the Cayman are shared with the Boxster and the engine technology has all filtered down from the entire Porsche line.

A more interesting question, they charge over $9K more for a Cayman S than a Cayman. How much of that is pure profit? A little more metal for a 3.4 vs. 2.9, direct injection, how much does that really cost?, and thicker rear brakes. It seems that about $7K of that is just money in their pockets.
 

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Recently I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that although Porsche charges more than twice as much for a 997TT than a Cayman, it only costs them about 10 grand more to build a TT than a Cayman. Any truth to that? If so, that is quite a profit!
Mike Levitas gave me the same speech last year.....
 

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In some cases, the differences in replacement costs for consumables such as rotors, pads may not be that great but the mark-up, if the perceived valve is there, can be.

Years ago, a friend who owned a high-end, independent repair shop showed me three different BMW parts boxes - each for a 3-5-6 series. The part in the box was the same but the prices increased based upon the model. I used to own an Audi Fox and would go to VW for parts - same part but less expensive.

I believe that larger rotors/pads etc do cost more to make but the mark-up is significantly higher for the parts on higher priced models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Mike Levitas gave me the same speech last year.....
I bet that is where I got this from. I may have been reading a quote from Mike somewhere. I met him at Rennsport Reunion III. Loved talking to him and drooled over his red turbo CS. One day soon his shop will be installing a turbo in my '06 CS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
P.S. By the way, I am not implying that there is a problem with this. More power to the Company if they have earned the right to do this through their rich racing heritage and monsterous number of victories against potent foes!
 

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I think you need to look at where its sold. A TT is signifcantly cheaper in most places unless youre talking about the 2.5 litre....but even that isnt going to create volume. I doubt that overall the TT is more profitable per unit....if it is then were all suckers....
 

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Don't forget about the R/D that goes into producing a product. The 911 TT is not a high volume car yet they still have to spend time creating, testing, advertising, etc. People always seem to forget that it takes more than just slapping it together. It is the same reason that drug companies charge so much when the raw materials may only cost pennies. They have to make up the millions upon millions they spent developing the drug.
 

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I would not be surprised. While back I was selling major appliances and was looking at our price structure on a top line of washing machines and our cost was pretty close from the cheapest to the most expensive with margins going from minus 23% on the loss leader to plus 23% on the top of the line. People pay for percieved value. Do the special paints cost much more than the standard? They get $750 more for them.
The cost of materials should be close as the cars weigh about the same, the labor to assemble them is about the same so that leaves development cost,number of units produced and profit as the varialbles.
 

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Since I bought my tt it went up by $10k. Demand and supply. However as some listed already above, almost evrything as an option on a Cayman is standard. Shocks are better, brakes a siz piston, ceiling is alcantara, 19' rims standard in 9 and 11. Tires are more expensive than on a Cayman. Seats are fully electrical, standard or sport, automatic climate standard, Sport Chrono, gauge cluster is different to any other car Porsche builds. Of course the AWD which is not available on a Cayman. If you think long and hard enough you can come up with a lot, aside of the Metzger engine and twin turbos. It is more than $10K And Mike charges more than $1K per turbo too, now doesn't he????
 

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$10K sounds low to me, but most of the mark-up comes just from the "S" and "Turbo" badging. Pricing driven by what the market will bear.

More interesting to me is Porsche marketing and pricing of the Cayman above the Boxster. Essentially coupe and cab versions of the same car - yet the only combination I know of anywhere in the automotive world where the coupe cost more than the convertible.

signed "Happy Boxster owner"
 

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$10K sounds low to me, but most of the mark-up comes just from the "S" and "Turbo" badging. Pricing driven by what the market will bear.

More interesting to me is Porsche marketing and pricing of the Cayman above the Boxster. Essentially coupe and cab versions of the same car - yet the only combination I know of anywhere in the automotive world where the coupe cost more than the convertible.

signed "Happy Boxster owner"
In most cases the convertible costs more to produce and is sold in lower volume, hence the higher price. In this case, the volumes are about the same ore even reversed and the Cayman has some higher cost suspension components, so the slightly higher price may somewhat reflect reality. It is odd though that with the 2009 update that the 2.9 and 3.4 Caymans have slightly higher horsepower, presumably to "justify" the higher price, since the engines are otherwise identical. The slightly lower hp in the Boxsters is probably the most outright sham in the Porsche model structure.
 

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Since I bought my tt it went up by $10k. Demand and supply. However as some listed already above, almost evrything as an option on a Cayman is standard. Shocks are better, brakes a siz piston, ceiling is alcantara, 19' rims standard in 9 and 11. Tires are more expensive than on a Cayman. Seats are fully electrical, standard or sport, automatic climate standard, Sport Chrono, gauge cluster is different to any other car Porsche builds. Of course the AWD which is not available on a Cayman. If you think long and hard enough you can come up with a lot, aside of the Metzger engine and twin turbos. It is more than $10K And Mike charges more than $1K per turbo too, now doesn't he????
We're talking COST, not PRICE. Boxsterbob was involved in product
manufacturing (as I am) and he has hit the nail right about on the head.

Nearly all the things you list above on the tt as standard could be had on
a "base" DE1 and the PRICE for that car was $10k higher than a base CS
in the US. Some of the others were fairly low-cost options such as the
sport seats. And ask yourself really - how much more does it cost to make
a sport seat than a regular one similarly decked out. Probably about the
same. Maybe the sport seat is even cheaper to make.

I think what a lot of us are forgetting is that options for Porsches are priced
extremely highly.
 

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As said above, the 9K difference between the 2009/10 Cayman and the Cayman S is particularly interesting--same new engine block, upgraded brakes too on the base, same suspension. The base doesn't have DFI (ok, so how much extra do those faulty HPFPs cost anyway?), but does have all the other new electronics and mechanicals. BTW, that 2.9 is a jewel of an engine too.

I suspect that's one of the reasons why Porsche might dumb down the base Cayman in the future, maybe to a 4 cyl engine, etc., to really help justify the CS's higher price point.

Considering that the lesser profitable 2.9's in the U.S. are now outselling the 3.4's (and growing), I suspect that Porsche probably feels that they're giving away the store.

I test drove caymans and 911's. I bought my new 2009 2.9 Cayman for 12% off list, almost half the price of a C4S or even a highly optioned C2S. It still cost over 50K, but sometimes I feel like I stole it for that price.
 
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