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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I picked up my first Porsche, a new 2014 Boxster S in December. I knew what options I wanted and was lucky enough to find a very close match on a dealer's lot relatively near my home. I found it online, the car only had a hundred miles on it, and I drove to the dealer that night to pick it up. When picking it up I noticed what I thought were water spots. Ends up they were not just water spots...

2 days later when I took the car to my clear bra guys, they noticed the spots too and they really stood out under the fluorescent shop lights. The spots were all over the hood, rear deck and any flatish surface where water had previously pooled and dried. The spots didn't go away with a washing or light buffing and the clear bra guys didn't want to cover the problem, so back to the dealer it went.
The dealer saw the spots too, acknowledged that it wasn't right, and kept the car for a day to polish it. The dealer was unable to polish out the spots, so they sent the car to a Porsche certified body shop. The body shop polished the whole vehicle and it looked great when I picked it up. I then had Xpel Ultimate clear bra applied to the rocker panels and everything in front of the door jambs within days of the polish. Given that it is winter I didn't drive the car much for the next two weeks, but once I did drive and wash it the spots reappeared on the rear lid and tail fin.

I should also note that the body shop had removed the emblems from the rear lid for their polish but hadn't reapplied them yet since the parts were on order. When the spots came back I could clearly see the outline of where the "P O R S C H E" emblem had been. The dealer took the car back to the body shop and they polished the rear lid again. Once again it looked great until I washed the car and had it in the sun for a few days. Now all the spots and emblem outline are back again. Luckily I can't see them anywhere the clear bra was applied.

Apparently the car had been on another lot in the Midwest for some time before being transferred to Colorado to clear out the 2014 inventory. This clearly seems like acid rain damage to me.
The dealer is recommending a repaint of the rear lid and tail fin, but I don’t think this is right for a new car. As well, repainting just the rear won’t correct the spots that are lurking under the clear bra.

I have yet to register the vehicle and I have all the titlework/sales tax checks in hand. At this point, I've lost confidence that the spots can be remedied and I expect that they will be visible on the hood as soon I remove the clear bra.

I wish my first new thread was something other than a problem, but such is life. I’ve learned a lot from reading these forums and I’m hoping some of you may be able to chime in on a potential fix or express your opinion on what you think would be a reasonable remedy to this situation.
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I feel your pain since I'm still dealing with paint defect issue. I'll spare you the details (nothing similar to yours) but I'm dropping it off this week for the 3rd try.

If you decide to keep the car and have it "worked on", I'd highly suggest having the best detailer in your area that is very experienced in paint correction come look at your car. Don't assume the Porsche certified body/paint shop knows how to correct this issue. They know, or should know, how to do general body repair and paint. I'm not surprised their 'fix' is to simple repaint.

If the detailer suggests full paint correction ask the detailer how much of the clear coat will be left after the process. I'm no expert and it's hard to tell from photos but your clear coat looks fairly damaged.

In all honestly, I'd be looking at possible ways not to take possession...if that's even possible.
 

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Sorry to hear you are having problems. I have to say that black cars are miserable. Before my BS, I had a black Z4. I kept it in the garage and kept it well "waxed" with Zaino, yet every time a bird pooped on it, it etched the paint. Even if it happened immediately after a 6 hour, 6 layering of Zaino. And I ended up with Zaino after trying many other waxes. All others that I tried resulted in streaking. Bird poop etchings were too deep to buff out. I even had one huge one removed with 600 grit wet sand paper. After 9 years with that car, I'll never own another black one. Incidentally, a week after I sold it, the new owner called to say he was staring at the car for 30 minutes and was afraid to touch it because it was perfect. I kept it that clean, yet, I could see many paint flaws. That being said, if the dealer polished your car, he removed all wax. If he hasn't done so, you need to wax/seal /protect the paint immediately. After a buff, any black car will look pretty bad without wax and any water spots will leave marks like you are seeing and they will really show up under artificial light. Good luck.
 

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If a body shop can't remove that etching by polishing then they are incompetent idiots. They are clearly using a glaze wax to fill in the etchings and that's why as soon as you wash it a few times or it spends enough time in the sun to vaporize the fillers, the etchings "come back."

They were never gone.

A word of advice, do NOT let that body shop polish your car again. They are not doing it properly and they are wasting your time and diminishing your clear coat. Another word from a professional detailer (myself), black does not suck. Black reacts more noticeably to mistreatment. There's a difference. A properly buffed car will look fantastic without any wax, Zaino, sealant, glaze etc. The topping on your paint is mainly for protection, not reflection. Shine is 95% prep. If the paint looks lame after a buffing then your detailer is lame. Wax is makeup, not correction. I'm shocked to hear that anyone would use 600 grit paper on a bird etching. That is just poor form and unnecessarily aggressive.

- Patrick
 

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If a body shop can't remove that etching by polishing then they are incompetent idiots. They are clearly using a glaze wax to fill in the etchings and that's why as soon as you wash it a few times or it spends enough time in the sun to vaporize the fillers, the etchings "come back."

They were never gone.

A word of advice, do NOT let that body shop polish your car again. They are not doing it properly and they are wasting your time and diminishing your clear coat. Another word from a professional detailer (myself), black does not suck. Black reacts more noticeably to mistreatment. There's a difference. A properly buffed car will look fantastic without any wax, Zaino, sealant, glaze etc. The topping on your paint is mainly for protection, not reflection. Shine is 95% prep. If the paint looks lame after a buffing then your detailer is lame. Wax is makeup, not correction. I'm shocked to hear that anyone would use 600 grit paper on a bird etching. That is just poor form and unnecessarily aggressive.

- Patrick
I was thinking the same regarding the comment about 600 grit paper. Yikes!

I completely agree with Patrick's statement about a properly polished/buffed car should look fantastic before any wax/sealant/glaze has been applied.

I have a question for you Patrick. Given OP's paint condition/etching, after paint correction process how much of his clear coat will be remaining? From the photos, it looks like the clear coat has been significantly damaged. I know it's a tough question to answer given you haven't seen the paint in person or measured it.
 

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...I have a question for you Patrick. Given OP's paint condition/etching, after paint correction process how much of his clear coat will be remaining? From the photos, it looks like the clear coat has been significantly damaged. I know it's a tough question to answer given you haven't seen the paint in person or measured it.
That depends on the average depth of the defects. The only way to know would be to measure the paint thickness before and after several test spots with various methods of correction and finishing. A competent detailer would choose the process that removes the least amount of clear while achieving the best level of correction. A really great detailer would have a multi-layer paint thickness gauge so you would actually know how much clear is left, not just how much you removed. This is where experience and equipment can really make the difference. Porsche paint is pretty hard so it tends to be difficult to correct but easy to finish out. Porsche has also been known to use single stage paints on some small plastic pieces such as the third brake light shroud and rear wing which seem to be the most affected on the OP's car. I had a similar problem on my wife's black Mercedes in some spots but not others. The roof rails, door handles and spoiler lip are single stage and they etched before I had a chance to get some CQuartz on it.

And yes, removing bird bomb etching with 600 grit is like taking out a dust nib with a brick. this is proof positive that just because you have been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you are doing it right. I hate when people say "I have xx years of experience." That doesn't necessarily mean squat. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

- Patrick
 

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To the OP, your problem can be corrected and does not require a repaint. You need a good detailer to give you an estimate and hold the dealership responsible for the bill. Tell them that you have lost confidence in their ability to correct the problem and you are unwilling to accept the loss of resale value associated with a repaint. Besides, if their body shop is too incompetent to buff out some hard water etching, I wouldn't let them near my lawn mower with a paint gun... I can tell you from experience that properly correcting the car means removing the clear bra, performing a full correction which will likely be at least a two stage compound and polish and then reapplying the clear bra. I personally would charge in the neighborhood of $1,500-$2,000 for the clear bra removal only and paint correction. At a minimum this is a 30-40 hour job plus the time and expense of having a clear bra installer reapply the film. Let me know if you want this handled and are willing to travel to NM for a long weekend.

- Patrick
 

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That depends on the average depth of the defects. The only way to know would be to measure the paint thickness before and after several test spots with various methods of correction and finishing. A competent detailer would choose the process that removes the least amount of clear while achieving the best level of correction. A really great detailer would have a multi-layer paint thickness gauge so you would actually know how much clear is left, not just how much you removed. This is where experience and equipment can really make the difference. Porsche paint is pretty hard so it tends to be difficult to correct but easy to finish out. Porsche has also been known to use single stage paints on some small plastic pieces such as the third brake light shroud and rear wing which seem to be the most affected on the OP's car. I had a similar problem on my wife's black Mercedes in some spots but not others. The roof rails, door handles and spoiler lip are single stage and they etched before I had a chance to get some CQuartz on it.

And yes, removing bird bomb etching with 600 grit is like taking out a dust nib with a brick. this is proof positive that just because you have been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you are doing it right. I hate when people say "I have xx years of experience." That doesn't necessarily mean squat. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

- Patrick
That's what I had figured. It's just unfortunate that a brand new car needs paint correction and some loss of clear.

So, you thought your 981 had fairly hard paint??? Hmmm...it seems that most have stated otherwise. In my own personal experience it seems on the softer side. Well, the clear at least.

If I had one large bird bomb etching, any type of grit paper would never come to mind. At most, a two step polishing of the infected area, seal it and call it a day. Btw, I recently (about a month ago) purchased Wolfgang DGPS 3.0 and used for the first time. I'm quite impressed with this sealant protection and appearance wise (very nice depth). I know it's only been a month but it seems to be holding up very well. Recent bird dropping can be pushed off as one single piece without much effort. As if they are hardening-up above the clear coat instead of embedded into it. I know many will have their likes when it comes to waxes/sealants but I'm digging the Wolfgang product.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the reply Patrick and PJunk. I can't believe someone used sand paper for bird droppings (shudder).
The owner of the dealership owns several others in the area and has apparently gotten personally involved with my problem. The corporate detailer who maintains the owner's personal car collection is now performing corrective the work on my car. I spent over an hour meeting with this detailer and inspecting the car in process today. He seemed very knowledgeable and definitely on the OCD spectrum which I appreciated. Today he did multiple light iterations of cutting compound and washing on the rear lid and top of the rear quarter panels. He feels the contamination is now gone and will polish it tomorrow. Once it is polished they are going park the car in the sun for a few days and wash it a couple times to make sure nothing returns. If it looks good they'll wax and get it ready for me. I'm hopeful that they have the right guy on it this time. Scheduled pick-up is next Wednesday.
If this truly works, I'll have to address what to do with the hood and front quarter panels that are concealed by the clear bra. Part of me says out of sight out of mind, I just spent $1700 to get the bar put on, don't worry about it. However I don't want to leave something that may fester and be a larger problem in the future...
 

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I wonder with all this polishing et al how much clear coat really remains? That would be my concern for long term care of the finiish.
 

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Thanks for the reply Patrick and PJunk. I can't believe someone used sand paper for bird droppings (shudder).
The owner of the dealership owns several others in the area and has apparently gotten personally involved with my problem. The corporate detailer who maintains the owner's personal car collection is now performing corrective the work on my car. I spent over an hour meeting with this detailer and inspecting the car in process today. He seemed very knowledgeable and definitely on the OCD spectrum which I appreciated. Today he did multiple light iterations of cutting compound and washing on the rear lid and top of the rear quarter panels. He feels the contamination is now gone and will polish it tomorrow. Once it is polished they are going park the car in the sun for a few days and wash it a couple times to make sure nothing returns. If it looks good they'll wax and get it ready for me. I'm hopeful that they have the right guy on it this time. Scheduled pick-up is next Wednesday.
If this truly works, I'll have to address what to do with the hood and front quarter panels that are concealed by the clear bra. Part of me says out of sight out of mind, I just spent $1700 to get the bar put on, don't worry about it. However I don't want to leave something that may fester and be a larger problem in the future...
OP, no sweat. Not sure I really provided much help but I'm just an owner that is going through his own factory paint defect issues and I'm very particular about what touches my paint. I've been this way on all my cars. My practices includes not allowing the dealership to wash my car when it's in for service, not letting the mobile washer that does a pretty good job on my coworker's cars, wash mine, strict washing techniques/habits, etc. For example, my car is at the P certified paint shop for my rocker panel repaint, I instructed them not to wash it after everything is said and done. I have no idea what their washing techniques are so I just don't take the chance and do it myself.

I just hope you're satisfied and comfortable with the detailers approach and the proof of his skill level. I don't want to sound like a pessimist or skeptic but I've just seen a lot of horrible finishes from people that claimed to be pros/experts.

I hope your car comes out looking beautiful and corrected. As for what's under the clear bra, talk to your clear bra installer and see what kind of arrangements/discounts can be made if you decide to have the entire car corrected. I highly suggest you have the entire car corrected. What was the detailer's opinion of this?
 

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Thanks for the reply Patrick and PJunk. I can't believe someone used sand paper for bird droppings (shudder).
The owner of the dealership owns several others in the area and has apparently gotten personally involved with my problem. The corporate detailer who maintains the owner's personal car collection is now performing corrective the work on my car. I spent over an hour meeting with this detailer and inspecting the car in process today. He seemed very knowledgeable and definitely on the OCD spectrum which I appreciated. Today he did multiple light iterations of cutting compound and washing on the rear lid and top of the rear quarter panels. He feels the contamination is now gone and will polish it tomorrow. Once it is polished they are going park the car in the sun for a few days and wash it a couple times to make sure nothing returns. If it looks good they'll wax and get it ready for me. I'm hopeful that they have the right guy on it this time. Scheduled pick-up is next Wednesday.
If this truly works, I'll have to address what to do with the hood and front quarter panels that are concealed by the clear bra. Part of me says out of sight out of mind, I just spent $1700 to get the bar put on, don't worry about it. However I don't want to leave something that may fester and be a larger problem in the future...
I got suspicious as soon as you said "corporate detailer." Corporate detailer means "lowest bidder." I can already tell you that the detailer is a hack because competent detailers know that after polishing you perform a series of wipe downs with CarPro Eraser and/or a 50/50 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and deionized water. This wipe down removes any residue from the polishing step which reveals any remaining defects and completely negates the need to "park it in the sun for a few days and wash it a couple of times." That is complete baloney. The only reason they would do that is so that they can blame you when the spotting returns. "We did everything you did and the spots didn't come back... Are you sure you're washing it right??" Washing the car a bunch of times will only put more scratches in it when the minimum wage kid with a grout sponge and a bucket of mud gets done drying it with a shop rag. I advised you not to rely on the dealership to fix this...

Sorry, I'm not trying to heckle you. I sincerely hope that this works out for you. My prediction is that they will "wax" it with glaze after compounding the crap out of it and when the glaze wears off you will either still have the etching or some sweet rotary holograms and/or DA marring from the "corporate detailer." I really hope I'm wrong though.

- Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I got suspicious as soon as you said "corporate detailer." Corporate detailer means "lowest bidder." I can already tell you that the detailer is a hack because competent detailers know that after polishing you perform a series of wipe downs with CarPro Eraser and/or a 50/50 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and deionized water. This wipe down removes any residue from the polishing step which reveals any remaining defects and completely negates the need to "park it in the sun for a few days and wash it a couple of times." That is complete baloney. The only reason they would do that is so that they can blame you when the spotting returns. "We did everything you did and the spots didn't come back... Are you sure you're washing it right??" Washing the car a bunch of times will only put more scratches in it when the minimum wage kid with a grout sponge and a bucket of mud gets done drying it with a shop rag. I advised you not to rely on the dealership to fix this...

Sorry, I'm not trying to heckle you. I sincerely hope that this works out for you. My prediction is that they will "wax" it with glaze after compounding the crap out of it and when the glaze wears off you will either still have the etching or some sweet rotary holograms and/or DA marring from the "corporate detailer." I really hope I'm wrong though.

- Patrick
I appreciate your deep commitment to lack of trust, but you don't have the benefit of context or first hand knowledge of my discussions. Perhaps he really was using a 50/50 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and deionized water... To a detailing layman like myself, I heard that he was cleaning the car between cutting iterations and to me that meant 'wash'; so that is the description I gave in my posting. Really I don't know what the hell he did at that level of detail and frankly I don't care so long as it works. I can say that he isn't a lowest bidder, and after a few decades of executive management, I'm a decent judge if someone is BSing.
That being said, if I am wrong, and he is a hack with unsuccessful results, then the dealership has run out of options. They are presenting this detailer as the absolute best. If the problem returns, and this this guy was the absolute best, then they are saying that it can't be corrected and I will have a much stronger case for them just to take the car back. Remember, I've been fighting this issue since the first day I had the car and they have fully admitted it is a pre-existing condition they will correct. If they can't correct, then they must replace. Those are the only acceptable resolutions that I can think of. Either way I will be happy.
 

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I doubt it's acid rain because everybody would have it and my black 944 never had the problem when we moved up there in the 80s. Parts of the Midwest do have very hard water tho, with plenty of limestone dissolved. We ruined all our clothes in a few washings because we didn't put in a water softener right away. White underwear turned gray and crunchy, it was so bad. If lawn sprinkler water got on your car it was in trouble. It was major task to wash my black 944 without leaving serious water spots. Rain was no problem, and we all know that much more coal was burned then than now.
 

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In the early 90s I had a black eagle talon that had etching all over the paint. Chrysler gave me a new car my cost was $16 for title transfer. It took them about 3 months . Turned out PPG had a bad batch of paint and they ended up buying back a ton of cars. Carl
 

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Please let us hear how you make out.

FYI, for the bird poop where I resorted to 600 sand paper, I started with clay. Then I buffed with Meguiars N07 and my PC. When that didn't work, I tried Meguiars No 6. That didn't work so I moved to number 9 (Swirl mark remover). That didn't work, and I didn't want to go more aggressive so I talked to my guys at the body shop. They buffed with something a bit more aggressive (I forget what). That got most of it, but still didn't take it all out so they took out the wet sand paper as I almost cried. But they just touched it. They lightly did maybe three or four swipes with almost no pressure. That worked. After that, I had a couple other poops also etch the paint, but they were not in obvious spots so I reduced them with the swirl mark remover and my PC and lived with them.
 

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Please let us hear how you make out.

FYI, for the bird poop where I resorted to 600 sand paper, I started with clay. Then I buffed with Meguiars N07 and my PC. When that didn't work, I tried Meguiars No 6. That didn't work so I moved to number 9 (Swirl mark remover). That didn't work, and I didn't want to go more aggressive so I talked to my guys at the body shop. They buffed with something a bit more aggressive (I forget what). That got most of it, but still didn't take it all out so they took out the wet sand paper as I almost cried. But they just touched it. They lightly did maybe three or four swipes with almost no pressure. That worked. After that, I had a couple other poops also etch the paint, but they were not in obvious spots so I reduced them with the swirl mark remover and my PC and lived with them.
What sealant do you have on the car?
 
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