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I don't know if this is has been discussed before, but does anyone feel like Porsche is lower its name and what it's know for by making the Cayenne and the Panamera? I've always thought of Porsche as a sports car brand, but I feel that with these two models, Porsche watering down what its known for. I feel like Porsche is trying to be like Mercedes now.

I'm sure there are 911 people that feel the same way about the boxster and the cayman. However the comparison is not the same. the cayenne and panamera are SUVs and sedans.

This is like Ferrari coming out with an SUV or a sedan. I think it's kind of silly.
 

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May sound silly but the Cayenne and Boxster brought Porsche out of a one model business doldrums and ensured its survival. With respect to the Pananera, remember the 928 and 944. Porsche is still about sports cars and I strongly suspect the Panamera will uphold that image.

I think this broadening is important as Ferrari and Lambo are subsidiaries of larger companies. Porsche is one of the few independent sports car makers. Certainly tehe most successful. Although they are close to the reverse business plan when they complete VW group ownership.

The VW group ownership is crucial for CO2 emissions regulation. Ed
 

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I can understand what you're saying. When I first heard that Porsche would make an SUV, I was shocked and opposed. But in retrospect, I think the Cayenne has reinforced what Porsche is about. Yes, it's an SUV, and as such expectations are not the same as a sports car. But in the pack of SUVs, the Cayenne stands alone at the top of the list in regard to performance.

The Cayenne has become Porsches best selling model, still amazing to me. But that is ultimately a very good thing because I remember 1996 when Porsche was hurting so bad that their future looked dark. During that year the ONLY model they had for sale was the 911, and sales were horrible. Global economic conditions had stifled the demand for expensive sports cars, and Porsche had all of their eggs in one basket.

Luckily someone had the vision to develop a new sports car that was more affordable, different, fresh and new. In 1997 Porsche introduced the Boxster, their first mid engine street car in 20 years. The Boxster was all together new and loaded with a lot of first time technologies that would bring Porsche into the future, and back to profitability. But their eggs were still in one basket.

The addition of the Cayenne and Panamera is an act of diversification that insures the future of the company. Is it less romantic than a company that makes only sports cars? Yeah, it is. But I'd rather see Porsche become less romantic than go out of business. Take a look at other sports car companies. Many of them have been bought out of near bankruptcy by big auto conglomerates and their souls have been lost.
 

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models such as the Cayenne and Panamera generate the income that is needed to further develop and improve the "sports car" models .
 

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Do I think AT&T watered itself down by offering wireless phone service after all those years of offering only wireline service? No, not really, times change, companies need to change to continue to compete. As Gator Bite said, it might be nostalgic for me to think of those old hand-crank phones that connected you to an operator that connected your call to someone else, or sharing a party line (how many here ever had to do that?) but if a company only made those products today it would be out of business. If Porsche only made the 911 it would have gone out of business or been acquired sometime in the 90's. Despite what some 993 revisionists will want to tell you, it was the Boxster that saved Porsche, that and a retooling and other factors to make Porsche more competitive. Weideking isn't stupid, he's continuing to try and maximize profits, that's what he is judged by, he doesn't care if he is selling sports cars, SUVs, or tennis shoes, as long as he can keep the company flush with profits and expanding then life is good. Afterall, Porsche just needs a little "breathing room" in the car industry... :)
 

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I don't know if this is has been discussed before, but does anyone feel like Porsche is lower its name and what it's know for by making the Cayenne and the Panamera? I've always thought of Porsche as a sports car brand, but I feel that with these two models, Porsche watering down what its known for. I feel like Porsche is trying to be like Mercedes now.
May sound silly but the Cayenne and Boxster brought Porsche out of a one model business doldrums and ensured its survival.
I, too, thought Porsche had taken a left turn when they introduced the Cayenne - WHAT IS PORSCHE DOING WITH AN SUV??

And then I had it explained to me in terms I could understand by both a Porsche sales rep and an article in Motortrend:
Porsche is about SPORTS cars...the Cayenne is a SPORTS untility vehicle. Both it and the Boxster saved Porsche. Now, with Euros to burn, Porsche is about to introduce a SPORTS sedan, the Panamera. It enables them to stay true to their SPORTS roots and at the same time bring in more Euros to further develop the car you and I have grown to love.
 

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AZCS,

I have to ask, does that mean Porsche will be developing the "Sports Bra" too? Or perhaps it already has for those lovely female German tennis players we see in every other issue of Christophorus... ;)
I had a response about enhanced headlights, but decided to pass! :hilarious:
 

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Your arguments would hold true if the 911 became worse or disappeared all together. In reality, the 911 is better than ever and with more derivatives (no pun intended) than you can shake a stick at. If the Boxster and Cayenne had to make the profits for this to happen, then so be it.

Don't kid yourself about Ferrari. Take a look at how much apparel and accessories are being sold with the prancing horse logo. It's a bit silly, and dilutes the brand in many ways. Ferrari alarm clock anyone? I don't even know if Ferrari is a profitable company at the moment, but I'll bet you top dollar, they weren't until they started licensing their name to anyone who asked.

If I have a problem with Porsche, it's that they offer no excuses for charging $60K for a V6 Cayenne with a 80s stereo and a hole to remind you where the nav system would be had you paid the premium.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's funny, I didn't know that the Cayenne radio had an empty space in the middle if you don't get PCM/Nav. I have to see what it looks like. That's kind of like an eff you whenever you look at it.
 

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I can understand what you're saying. When I first heard that Porsche would make an SUV, I was shocked and opposed. But in retrospect, I think the Cayenne has reinforced what Porsche is about. Yes, it's an SUV, and as such expectations are not the same as a sports car. But in the pack of SUVs, the Cayenne stands alone at the top of the list in regard to performance.

The Cayenne has become Porsches best selling model, still amazing to me. But that is ultimately a very good thing because I remember 1996 when Porsche was hurting so bad that their future looked dark. During that year the ONLY model they had for sale was the 911, and sales were horrible. Global economic conditions had stifled the demand for expensive sports cars, and Porsche had all of their eggs in one basket.

Luckily someone had the vision to develop a new sports car that was more affordable, different, fresh and new. In 1997 Porsche introduced the Boxster, their first mid engine street car in 20 years. The Boxster was all together new and loaded with a lot of first time technologies that would bring Porsche into the future, and back to profitability. But their eggs were still in one basket.

The addition of the Cayenne and Panamera is an act of diversification that insures the future of the company. Is it less romantic than a company that makes only sports cars? Yeah, it is. But I'd rather see Porsche become less romantic than go out of business. Take a look at other sports car companies. Many of them have been bought out of near bankruptcy by big auto conglomerates and their souls have been lost.
I feel the same way. Porsche still inputs their theories into any product that they make. The cayenne is still the fastest and most capable on road SUV out there on the market today (it feels like a huge 911). Like gator said, Porsche had some hard times selling their 911's in the 90's. The price wasn't for everyone and not everyone wanted a rear engine car. Porsche had to expand for the market to keep themselves out of the "reds" (people who work at porsche gotta eat and pay mortgages too right?). If it wasn't for their expansion, we wouldn't have a this board today. So can you really say that Porsche diluted their brand name? The cayman/boxster wasn't in there lineup 10 years ago..
 

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Different people have different ideas about what "is" a sports car. That's why there's Caymans, a pile of 911 models, a sedan, etc. SUV's are/were very high profit vehicles and allow the company to (1) fill a need, as some people think a sporty SUV or sedan is awesome, and (2) gain enough profits to finance lower profit models, though I doubt any Porsche is a low profit model. This also allows them to slide the CAFE standards as that is fleet based. And when it comes right down to it, it's about how many whatever you can sell.

Just my humble 0.02
 

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I can understand what you're saying. When I first heard that Porsche would make an SUV, I was shocked and opposed. But in retrospect, I think the Cayenne has reinforced what Porsche is about. Yes, it's an SUV, and as such expectations are not the same as a sports car. But in the pack of SUVs, the Cayenne stands alone at the top of the list in regard to performance.

The Cayenne has become Porsches best selling model, still amazing to me. But that is ultimately a very good thing because I remember 1996 when Porsche was hurting so bad that their future looked dark. During that year the ONLY model they had for sale was the 911, and sales were horrible. Global economic conditions had stifled the demand for expensive sports cars, and Porsche had all of their eggs in one basket.

Luckily someone had the vision to develop a new sports car that was more affordable, different, fresh and new. In 1997 Porsche introduced the Boxster, their first mid engine street car in 20 years. The Boxster was all together new and loaded with a lot of first time technologies that would bring Porsche into the future, and back to profitability. But their eggs were still in one basket.

The addition of the Cayenne and Panamera is an act of diversification that insures the future of the company. Is it less romantic than a company that makes only sports cars? Yeah, it is. But I'd rather see Porsche become less romantic than go out of business. Take a look at other sports car companies. Many of them have been bought out of near bankruptcy by big auto conglomerates and their souls have been lost.
+1...

my dad and i just picked up a new cayenne GTS a couple nights ago, and let me tell you, the thing handles better than pretty much every sedan out there! it def stand atop a tall mountain with regards to performance and looks, and the panamera will do the same.
also, remember that with porsche selling tons of cayennes and boxsters, and caymans and eventually panameras it will yield to geater advancements in the 911 and just as importantly, MONEY FOR MOTORSPORTS activity (i.e racing!) where they are STILL the elite for some 50+ years now.
 

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Don't you mean the 911 is bigger than ever?:)
I think I know what you're saying and you could certainly argue that......but I do feel the consensus appears to be that it's more refined, practical, cheaper to service etc. Whether the car has as much character as the 911 of old is a different matter. That's the Cayman's job.
 

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Now, with Euros to burn, Porsche is about to ...........
Cash????? Hmmmmmm. You'd never know it by what's happened to my Porsche stock in the last 9 months.
 

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The Porsche name is not being watered down. All one has to do is to drive a Cayenne. My first Cayenne was a 2004 S and it was awesome. It had PASM and would loosen your fillings when driving on the Sport setting. It could can out corner most cars including many "Sports Cars". To top that off, it tows better than my old Yukon Denali. One day after a great day at a DE at Watkins Glen, I had two of my friends in my Cayenne S, with a full load of gear in the back. Driving along the curvy country roads, they experienced the incredible handling and brakes that stop in the same distance as a 996. They were shocked how a 5000+ lb SUV could drive almost as well as a Porsche sports car.
 

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Just wanted to say that even Ferrari and Lambo are going this way (at least trying to), Lambo's introduced their new sedan concept lately, and Ferrari have the 612 Scagalleti and I heard that they are developing an SUV too!

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"Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!
 

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As others have said, the Cayenne is very profitable for Porsche. Hard to believe but even when their sports car sales dropped significantly, the SUV picked up the slack. In the big picture, it is win as that money funds the on-going development of sports cars. Now if they watered down the line with poor quality vehicles I'd be more concerned about the negative impact.
 
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