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Discussion Starter #1
Hiya last year I bought a 2006 Cayman S (M97) off my uncle with 47,000km on it. He was the second owner and it's been lightly driven with regular maintenance from both owners. This will be my fourth year doing HPDE days and the first with this car. I'm looking for some advice on the modifications I'll need to drive it safely on the track. I'm in my mid 30s so I'm not trying to set any records, just enjoy the drive and pull some decent laps. I haven't decided on tires yet but I'm probably going to run Sport Cup 2's.

What I've purchased so far;

Dension Gateway 500
Rennline radiator grills
Rennline third radiator kit
New spark plugs
K&N air filter
Goodridge stainless steel brake lines
Castrol SRF brake fluid
Carbotech XP10/8 pads
GT3 brake ducts

I do oil changes every 6 months and I'm always well under the required km. I found this thread https://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-and-boxster-competition/87011-suggestions-tracking-cayman-s.html#post770143 and wondered if anyone had a link to the under drive pulley he mentioned to prevent damage to the power steering pump. That thread is quite old and I didn't want to necro it.

If there's anything else you'd recommend please reply! I'm not looking to add more power I'm only concerned with reliability. The car is fast enough for me as it is. Our track is not a high speed track it's technical at only 2.5km with 11 corners Atlantic Motorsport Park – The heart of racing in the Maritimes!. I'm going to have a track alignment done before our first day to add as much negative camber as stock will allow with 0 toe. Next year I'll do Bilsteins, upgraded sway bars, and add more camber once I get a better feel for the car.

Thanks!
 

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There are many different underdrive pulleys for our cars. All more-or-less the same. Find a company you trust and buy from them (RSS, Mantis, Pedro, Tarett, etc.). While this will give you a tiny bit more hp, the real purpose is to save the power steering pump. Some companies claim you need a smaller belt, some say the stock one will suffice. While the stock belt will fit, you'll be near the limits of the tensioner, so I would strongly consider a smaller belt. I personally purchased the Tarett with belt PN K060820, which will be going on before the 2019 season starts.

Especially on a car with an IMS bearing and going with tires that are stickier than stock (giving more Gs in the long turns), it is vitally important that you do some modifications to prevent oil starvation. Get a deep sump kit or something with better baffles. Personally, I'm going with the Mantis Deep Sump Kit because of how many problem-free hours they have logged in their Cayman racecar with the kit.
Depending on how hard you're actually going to be driving this car, I would also consider upgrading the AOS.

Under drive pulley, deep sump kit, and a 3rd radiator are all you "need" to start thrashing this car around.

As for alignment specs, maximum camber with a stock suspension will be fairly decent on track. I spent months dialing in my ride height, damping, camber, and toe. While my car is pretty low, damping is perfect and still allows significant suspension travel when necessary. I personally run -2.3° in the rear and -2.5° up front. For some of the tracks and autocross courses I run, I was getting a bit of understeer which the more extreme front camber and softer damping alleviated.

0 toe is good. But you may also want to consider a slight toe-in in the rear. This will help with straight line acceleration. A slight toe out up front can also help with cornering, depending on the track, but I prefer to run a 0 toe up front.

It's great that you have focused on brakes first and are learning the limits of the stock suspension before upgrading. Too many people buy all the parts before they now the limits and capabilities. Especially on shorter/technical tracks, you'll love suspension upgrades more than anything. Though you may want to consider a rear stress bar sooner than later. It's a cheap part (~$100) and helps maintain camber settings in the rear. Without the brace, under hard cornering/braking, you can actually feel the suspension geometry slightly change, which greatly hinders handling.

Eventually, you may want better aero (balance is great on these cars, but on faster tracks, downforce is lacking).
You might also want a harness setup and a seat with better bolsters... Porsche's leather sport seats are terrible and you'll be surprised how much easier it is to drive when you're not fighting to keep yourself in position.

After that, just start adding the parts that benefit the car in areas that you feel are lacking for your driving style.
 
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I run stock power steering system on my CSS - no coolers, no UDPs, etc. I DO CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL BEFORE EVERY DE and never had any issues when it's at the proper level. I currently have 6 yrs of 3-4 DEs / yr on my CSS, including 3 DEs at 20 turn COTA. I think most issues with PS occur because people don't check the level b/c it's a PITA. Running a DE with low fluid will cause problems. Before dropping a ton of $$$ in this area, try running with the stock setup at the proper level. You might be able to redirect those PS $$$ to other areas.

You DO need to purchase a better sump baffle. The stock version is insufficient and will allow oil to slop out of the center section, resulting in potential starving. Some have purchased a sump extension along with a better baffle. I just purchased the better baffle for my stock sump. I've run twice on the high banks of Kansas Speedway and had no issues.

Definitely get a race alignment. If you run stock alignment, you'll wear out the outer edges of your tires very quickly. With stock components, the max you'll be able to get is approx. -1.5 camber. If you plan to do a lot of DEs, you might want to purchase some GT3 style lower control arms. They will give you a -2.5 camber. Your tire bill will be a lot lower with a race alignment.

You might want to consider the Function First Shift Right Solution. It will eliminate 95% of the slop in your shifter. Don't want any of those 5-2 money downshifts and it's not an expensive mod.

Welcome to the slipper slope of DE.
 

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Also, don't run it up to redline. The rod bolts are weak and venturing into redline territory will cause bearing issues. I shift at 6K RPM.

And learn how to heel and toe. The clutch is not robust so you need to be able to rev match when downshifting. If your DE is next week and you don't know how to heel and toe, don't worry about it. Go out and have fun. But work on it for the future. You'll enjoy it, your wallet will have an extra $2K, and your CS will thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ordered the Tarett under drive pulley and a shorter belt. Does the 2L Mantis sump kit require additional baffles? The one listed on their site says no but a lot of posters on here suggest them. How much ground clearance do you lose with this kit?
 

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If you car is not lowered by either coilovers or lowering springs, you should have no troubles with the Mantis deep sump as far as clearance. I am using the LN version of the deep sump kit with the X51 baffle, a windage tray and 997 down tubes. This seems like a good way to protect my engine. The 997 down tubes allows the head motor oil to flow quickly onto the windage plate. In high G cornering, oil gets trapped in the heads, so this down tube helps get frothy oil where it needs to go. LN also makes a sump protector skid plate, which I have as my car is lowered by coilovers, I hit that protector occasionally by speed bumps, even going very slowly and on a diagional. So, this protection is mainly for the street, which in my case is 90% of the car's use.

These cars do not have any rear brake ducts and our rear nannies are very active, so you will need that additional cooling to keep your paint on your calipers from turning brown. You will need to add those ducts to your car along with the GT3 ones you have for the front.

Some speed shops might get you to -1.6 camber in front and -2.1 camber in the rear, which I ran for a year before my Ohlin coilover conversion without much inner shoulder wear. Now using -2.7 F and -2.5 R. The roll rate is balanced with my track RE71R's. I also used wheel spacers to get more track width when using my OEM wheels/tires, which is most of the time.

A Pedro Technolink to stabilize the rear frame rails from torquing under threshold braking causing rear brake wiggle from the toe alignment moveing from in to out as the rear of the car lifts.

It all good when you think ahead, like you are doing. Google is our friend, use it to research these Cayman 987.1 issues. Have fun.
 
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I've heard some people adding different baffles to different deep sump kits. But most people with the Mantis deep sump (that I've seen) just run the kit right out of the box without any issues. I don't think Mantis added anything extra to their track car, which is that track proven product that I'm looking for.

As for ground clearance, I can't say exactly how much you lose, but it's not too bad. Consider that the sump is almost directly between the tires, speed bumps should never be a concern. The only real problem will be if you're running over something that centers under the car. If you're at stock height or lowered, as long as you have maintained the factory rake, other parts of your car will come in contact with that object before the sump. My car has about 2.5" of ground clearance and this isn't a concern to me, just drive defensively.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Great thanks! I looked at the LN sump kit as well. Have they released any data on oil pressure during track sessions? I know Mantis did which is why I'm leaning towards their kit.

The function first shift right solution looks interesting. Will add that to my list. Has anyone tried their engine mount inserts? I haven't had the car on the track yet, can you feel the weight of the engine shift under hard cornering without them?
 

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I use the Function First Orange motor mount insert, which brings a new feeling to the car. It just seems more planted, as would be expected as the motor motion is reduced. When I had the insert installed, my shop found the original motor mount shot with 40k on the clock. The rubber was ripped and deteriorating, so I had them replace it with a OEM motor mount and the FF Orange insert. On start up, much more NVH than a regular motor mount, so I add a fuel supplement (LIQUIMOLY JECTRON) that dramatically reduces engine vibration on startup.

Charles Navaro, head of LN has a number of articles regarding the protection of the 987.1 3.4 engine. I would suggest reading these before you purchase. While, scientific track data is good, its not the whole story as you will read. Part of the M97 engine story in the 987.1 Cayman's is we have only 2 oil pumps in our heads, so oil in certain situations does not exit the head, but pools due to G forces. Not only pools, but becomes frothy, filled with air. So, his kit includes the 997 down tube and a windage plate that takes out the air as the oil seeps into the lower level of the sump where X-51 baffle holds the oil in place to be picked up by the oil feed. Charles, also recommends a certain type of engine oil that does not froth in our heads, which is accomplished by additives as in the Driven Joe Gibbs product XP-9.

You can go crazy looking at this situation, but just knowing the facts about the 2 head oil pumps in the 3.4 M97 vs the 4 in the 9A-1 from 2009 on will give you a good idea of the importance of this issue. You are on the right track with the addition of the third water radiator as its use to keep the engine oil below 280 degrees is critical as only a few motor oil will withstand this usage and prevent rod bearing scarring. Look up the web thread on the comparison of oils by RAT/540. While some of this data is not replicated due to the method of his proprietary research, just looking at the body of evidence between oils will give you a good idea of where to go as cost per quart come into play with a 10 qt sump. Our engines fit into the flat tappet area as we stretch the boundary levels of the oil's effectiveness with the oil starvation, frothy oil contamination and heat degradation. So that needs to be part of your engine protection campaign as we have no oil temp or pressure gauges.

I use the Numeric shifter and cables for a solid feel and great down shifting experience especially blipping into 1st gear for those tight 180 degree corners. The OEM cables are suspect and subject to failure due to a bend in the cable just before the transmission link. The new replacement OEM cables have overcome this issue, but they require a number of additional install hours that Numeric cables do not require. I like the feel of the solid steel cable rather than the silky smooth replacement cable. I can feel the transmission detents on each gear shift if done slowly, not so with the Porsche new improved more expensive product.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The LN kit seems to address the same problem in a different way. I like the return tubes on the LN version and the design of the pan on the Mantis.

What surprises me is why Bilt hasn't provided public data to support their design. During development they have to be monitoring it to be sure their system does what they think it should.

I'll add the motor inserts to my list. Just ordered the rear brake ducts thanks!
 

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I am not sure about Mantis design, but I do know from a conversation with LN that I had regarding the down tubes. I wanted to install 996 swirl pots instead of the 997 straight down tubes. I was told that this change was necessitated by experience of oil pooling in the heads. So, the X-51 baffle system, along with the windage plate and the straight down tubes all are a system. That's what was installed in my car and initally XP-9 oil (not a street oil as it should only be driven for 800 miles). However, I am now using Mobil 5W-40 FS European blend for this winter. In the spring, will change to a highly rated boundry layer PSI oil for rod bearing scar protection that has additives for reduced head froth production and high heat degradation.

The one item that this system exposes is the OEM AOS. The windage plate is actually higher in the sump than the bottom of the OEM sump, so oil is collected there as it filters down into the bottom of the sump on each side of the X-51 baffle. In a autocross last year, a long slalom feature, caused a lot of oil to be sucked into my OEM AOS, which sits on the top of the sump sort of a breather and negative pressure maker. The sloshed oil coated my AOS twice in this feature, so I changed it to the Porsche Motorsports AOS without any additional oil coating issues. It turns out that the Porsche Motorsports AOS is mandatory in the LN/BRS lower end protection system to help suck out the frothy engine oil in the heads when the third scavenger pump is installed. OEM AOS simply do not have the capasity to remove the frothy oil in the air from the heads as well as create negative pressure for the sump as it will soon become clogged with oil.

Also, the sump of the new 2 Qt system is not, repeat not, to be filled completely, rather to 1/3 or slightly over that number and checked daily. This info comes directly from LN, who runs a group of 11 Cayman race cars. This info is different than what I was initially told to do, as more oil the better, but to avoid an overfill situation adding to the IMS bearing seal leakage. LN acknowledged the slosh issue on top of the windage plate, therefore reduced sump fill to allow that oil more readily to seep into the bottom sump. Again, a total system has been created by LN. You can modify all you like, but the further away from their system you go, the more risk you take without their explicit knowledge backing you up. Case in point are; the 996 swirl pot, Accusump, OEM baffle plate, no windage tray, no additional scavenger head pump, other oil than Driven XP-9 race oil, use of Hoosies R-7 tires, A-7's ok for autocross, not using a 3 radiator, high RPM shifting (red line), etc.

Charles Navarro, President of LN, is particularly interested in maintaining oil pressure to rod bearing #6 during the final 15 minutes of the run. To do that, a couple of items must be included on your engine build. A spin on oil filter base with a special oil filter (Powerfilter 10881) that has 45 micron passage ways to assure plenty of oil pressure. The second is the use of a race oil with a 10W 40 viscosity rating. This allows for the hot oil, most likely well over 300 degrees before it reaches the #6 rod bearing, to have some film strength to prevent scarring of the rod bearing. This oil comes from the rear main bearing area to oil the rod bearing, so its already very hot. Any additional methods of reducing oil temperature at this time would be very helpful, ie, 3rd radiator and a much larger water/oil heat exchanger.

There are numerous web entries that give additional information about the installation and use of these two systems on P9 and Rennlist.

Much of the data is collected by the AIM Solo 2 DL GPS lap timer with ECU intergation which gives real time oil temp and water temp but not oil pressure.
 
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When I did my engine swap last summer I spoke with the folks at Vision about stiffer engine mounts. They recommended leaving the engine mounts stock and instead getting a semi-solid trans mount. You end up with pretty much the same result with the plus of not getting high-freq resonance in the cabin. Solid or semi-solid engine mounts make sense for a race car but I was told not worth the noise for a street car.
 

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I would agree about a solid or semi solid motor mount. The FF insert is not exactly that as it fits into the open spaces of the OEM motor mount and tighten them up prevent sideways motion from G forces. I have read other stories about members changing their transmission mounts and were not satisfied with the NVH from that supposed upgrade, so that was my thought of using the insert. The Orange is the least offensive NVH product of the three inserts that FF makes. Again, the only time NVH noticeable is during startup for a minute or so. The fuel additive helps smooth out the startup vibration. Mid range engine tone is slightly different, especially with the 82mm throttle body and EVOM's air filter system adding to the engine noise.

The positive part of the Function First insert is back to back slalom type turns are much more taut and accurate now. Throttle steer mid corner is more direct and smooth as the motor is stationary now. The newer 911 Porsches with Sports Chrono comes with a magnetic motor mount that essentically does the same thing as the insert as the 911 engine is reversed.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Wasn't planning on upgrading the AOS this season unless it becomes a problem. Deep sump will be installed next month before the season starts. What type of turns effect the car the most? Sharp turns, elevation changes, long sweeping turns, all of the above? We have several sharp turns with elevation changes and blind apex's all over the place. There's really only one corner you sustain over 1g for a few seconds. Harry's will show those except oil pressure most cars use a non standard custom PID for that so it's not available as an overlay.

Here's a video from a few years back in my previous car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJpXDFzeqok
 

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AOS- Quick back in forth motion as in a long slalom course with RE71R's and a very solid suspension setup inducing high G forces on both sides in repeat manor. This induced oil slosh with 3/4 oil sump fill, happened to my engine causing an oil down of the OEM AOS twice, but not sure which side did it, most likely was the right side under AOS the vent hole. Did not happen with the Porsche Motor Sports version. The top of the windage plate does not have any ribs or slosh bars to impede the oil motion, only the X-51 oil baffle system keeping the oil contained in the oil well and separated in two half's of the windage plate.

You can think about the OEM AOS oil down issues in the same parts of the track where the FF motor mount insert has helped reduce motor movement side to side. If your track only has one high G force corner, most likely you will not oil down your OEM AOS.

Rod bearing engine starvation- Long left hand sweepers with high G forces produced by R rated tires is the primary cause, however high G stopping with left turn at end also have shown reduced oil pressure issues. You can google P9 experiences from racers in the past on this issue. Including how to fix the problems, which resulted in all sorts of remedies. From all those stories, we boil their experiences down to Mantis and LN products.

Please check out mgarcia048 thread "987.1 track build", regarding his engine failure at Sebring while using a Mantis Sport 2qt sump post #28. Not sure if there was a relationship with rod bearing scarring or a rod bolt breaking. He did not mention an over rev situation only having fun. Also the scratch marks on the Mantis faceplate of the deep sump. The LN skid plate would make sense here.



Please check the link below from Charles Navarro in a Rennlink post.

[HR][/HR]Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBird993
Good thread since I was thinking about getting a 987.1 for the track. Any suggestions on good threads or blogs to read about oil starvation issues?

And yes, I've done searches...



Race oil, deep sump, don't raise the rev limiter, and keep it cool.

I've put together a PDF that goes over prepping an M96/M97 engine for the track, as found in your 987.1.
Attached Images

2017-Tracking-your-car-and-the-M96-engine.pdf (573.4 KB, 17 views)


__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution






 

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Wasn't planning on upgrading the AOS this season unless it becomes a problem. Deep sump will be installed next month before the season starts. What type of turns effect the car the most? Sharp turns, elevation changes, long sweeping turns, all of the above? We have several sharp turns with elevation changes and blind apex's all over the place. There's really only one corner you sustain over 1g for a few seconds. Harry's will show those except oil pressure most cars use a non standard custom PID for that so it's not available as an overlay.

Here's a video from a few years back in my previous car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJpXDFzeqok
As Apex1 indicates, most engine oiling issues begin when running with R-comp tires. You haven't mentioned that as one of your upgrades, so doing the upgrades you've mentioned should be sufficient if you're going to run on street tires. The other Achilles heel to Cayman engines are l-o-n-g sweeping corners. Can't remember if left or right sweepers are the bane. I think it was left but others can reply. Once again, most of the issues arise when running R tires because of the G forces they generate vs what the engines were designed for with street tires. That's one of the reasons why I run street tires at the track. I get my a$$ kicked by all the low hp cars running race tires, but I don't blow up my engine and can go to my next DE. I'm probably alone in being OK with giving up track speed by not using stickier tires, but I look at the war not the battle.

As far as going with a Motorsports AOS, once again if you're generating high G's from R tires then you'll need it. If you run street tires, a Motorsports AOS is spendy. You can replace a lot of stock AOSs vs the cost of the Motorsports. So I make sure there are no signs of a failing AOS before I go to the track (there's a new thread on this topic in the 987 general topics), and I take a spare AOS with me to the track in case the existing one shoots craps. Don't need to pack up and go home for something that simple failing. Having a spare AOS on hand is not an expensive proposition.

There is a theme running thru the responses in this thread. If you plan to turn your CS into a track monster, then you need to bulk it up. If you want to go out and enjoy it within reason, then fewer mods are needed with the understanding that you're giving up some capabilities in the process. But you'll have fun. DE is a slippery slope.
 

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Wasn't planning on upgrading the AOS this season unless it becomes a problem.
When it becomes a problem, you have a broken engine. You really want to wait? Yes it's pricey. But I can't remember a DE event last year that didn't include a Cayman or Boxster leaving on a flatbed with a broken engine. Porsche screwed up with these engines, my opinion.
 

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When it becomes a problem, you have a broken engine.
Yes, in very extreme situations. But there are plenty of situations where it will blow a lot of smoke and maybe look catastrophic but isn't. Plenty of stories on 986forum about Boxster owners who were convinced they had an IMS failure while driving on the street when in fact it was just a bad AOS. Replaced the AOS and they were good to go. If you keep an eye out for the signs of a failing AOS, you lessen the chances of it being an issue at the track. But sometimes they fail without giving a lot of warning. It does happen but it doesn't mean you've absolutely ruined your engine.

But I can't remember a DE event last year that didn't include a Cayman or Boxster leaving on a flatbed with a broken engine.
Not doubting that you've seen a lot of flatbed situations, but that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with. Are you sure these were all AOS related or could it have been rod bearings or some other failure like suspension? And are you including spec Boxsters? Those guys blow engines like popcorn, then go out and find another used 2.5L that they can run for the next several races before it blows. Not quite the same as the casual DEer.

Porsche screwed up with these engines, my opinion.
This we agree on. Porsche took the 911 engine and turned it 180 deg to work in the 987. What could go wrong? Quite a bit, as we've found out.

Bottom line is there is risk in taking your Porsche to the track. Stuff happens no matter how prepared you are. It can scare you away from doing it or you can learn to live with the risk.
 
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