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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Nov issue of R&T just showed up today, the one with an F-Type on the cover with a "The Return to Gorgeous" subtitle.

In one article, they took a Cayman S, M4, and a Vette to Lime Rock. The article wasn't a "which car do we like best" editorial. Each car had a write up of "pros & cons", but the main goal was simply to see which car had the fastest lap at Lime Rock. From general knowledge, I figured the Vette would be fastest, and the Cayman would be slowest, and guess what -- I was absolutely correct. I mean really - the article acknowledged what I already knew - the Cayman was down at least 100 HP to the other two and was also down 135 to 192 lb-ft to the others. When working out the Lb/HP ratios, the Cayman was carrying 2.0 lb/HP more than the Vette and 1.1 lb/HP more than the M4. On the other hand, it wasn't a slaughter. The Vette's time was 59.9 seconds and the Cayman was 61.5 seconds. Another way of looking at that data is the Cayman took 2.7% more time than the Vette; which isn't a whole lot.

So what does this all mean?? That's subjective, but given the huge power advantage of the other two, the Cayman must be doing something very well in order to stay within 2.7% of Vette's time. The reviewer said the Cayman was "brilliant in the corners, with turn-in that makes the faster cars seem dawdling."
 
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Two seconds in a 60 seconds track is a lot. Corvette is a track monster, it shines out there.
 

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Two seconds in a 60 seconds track is a lot. Corvette is a track monster, it shines out there.
It is, but since most people will never track their Cayman, it is mostly just bragging rights. From home to work, or work to Target, there simply is no usable difference.
 
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Where did two seconds come from? Per the data in the OP, the delta is 1.6 seconds.

Yes, 1.6 seconds or so is considered a large delta when comparing lap times of cars with relatively equal power & weight; such as cars in one class of the Tudor series, or Indy cars, or NASCAR "Cup" cars for that matter. But that isn't the situation here; as the data in the OP illustrated that the Cayman's Lb to HP ratio and torque output aren't anywhere near that of the other two cars.
 

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I don't see any need to make excuses here. The 981 is down on power compared to those other two. Those other two are faster on track.

So?

There's more to a car than being the fastest. I had my pick of the litter here. I chose the 981. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
There's more to a car than being the fastest.
Yep, like having more gadgets & bling and the all-important certification that one owns a status symbol... But owning a Porsche and not being concerned that a Yugo is the only car you can beat at the track? I've never heard that concept before. Have you had your DNA checked lately? :hilarious:
 

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Yep, like having more gadgets & bling and the all-important certification that one owns a status symbol... But owning a Porsche and not being concerned that a Yugo is the only car you can beat at the track? I've never heard that concept before. Have you had your DNA checked lately? :hilarious:
I think that we can all agree that for gadgets and bling, we're in the wrong manufacturer. :)

I'm talking more about the whole experience of just enjoying how the car drives. The balance and cornering. Being able to mash the pedal out of a turn without the whole thing just going awry.

I mean... the Dodge Challenger Hellcat is kinda awesome with over 700 hp, right? But can you imagine driving it all the time? Imagine pulling out to pass someone and mashing the pedal. Either you're gonna have to let off, or the traction control is going to let off for you. When do you ever get to just open it up and hear it wail?

Maybe all the time. I don't know. I've never driven one. But I expect this is the sort of balance that Porsche just gets right with the 981. I expect to be able to downshift and mash the pedal and hear the noise of the engine wailing at high RPM's without having to let off much if at all. I expect to be able to really enjoy all aspects of the car on a regular basis.

I've obviously only driven one a few times on test drives so maybe my opinion is skewed. It's mostly based on all the massively positively reviews I've read from just about any reviewer that's ever written about one. But that's what I want from this car. I don't care if it's not as fast as a Corvette on the track. I think I'll enjoy living with it a lot more in the real world.

Heck... the fact that I can fit luggage for 2 in it for a road trip was a huge point in its favour when I was comparing it to the Vette and F-Type. Maybe that makes me soft. Maybe that's not what a sports car is all about. But that's going to contribute to me enjoying it a lot more over the next many years. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think that we can all agree that for gadgets and bling, we're in the wrong manufacturer. :)
Excuuuuuse Me !!!! With all the zillions of posts worrying about whether to get carbon, alum, mahog or body-colored trim; different steering wheels; color of stitching, carpet, dashboard, rollover bar; styles of wheels, sports chrono (if that isn't mostly gadgetry, I don't know what is), ETC, ETC.???? You gotta be kidding. :hilarious:

But you did at least, bite on the intended bait, and elaborated on the aspects of the car that are more important than track times. Which was the gist of the OP's thread in the first place. Good Job! :dance:
 

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I will have to wait to read the review..............on face value, not sure about the basis or value of the comparison. Also, on face value, it further reinforces why my opinion of R&T continues to diminish........not the results per se but, again, the value of the comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I will have to wait to read the review..............on face value, not sure about the basis or value of the comparison. Also, on face value, it further reinforces why my opinion of R&T continues to diminish........not the results per se but, again, the value of the comparison.
I don't understand your concerns about "basis or value of the comparison." The mag was given three cars to test by mfrs, and those cars were provided with options, packages, etc. chosen by the mfrs. The R&T article specifically said the 981 was chosen instead of a 911 because the 981 fit more closely into the price range of the other two cars. And testing cars that are in the same price range is the norm for comparos. What difference does it make whether the mag tested a 458, a Bentley GT, and an Aston at a track on the same day in the same conditions? I see no hidden agenda or connotations in either scenario. I fail to understand why this particular test elicited your "my opinion of R&T continues to diminish" comment? Was it because you think a Cayman should have been track tested with wimpy cars that would easily be out-performed by a Cayman? :hilarious:
 

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I read that article in the bathroom. :) At the end of the day, the 981 makes me the happiest. I haven't driven the M4, I have no intentions to, I don't like the interior of BMW's, the cabin is where I will spend most of my time. Similar to the C7. I took it out for awhile but it didn't feel special. I'll let a C7 and M4 beat me off the line, the fastest is always the one that gets a speeding ticket first. lol
 

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Read the article. It is a nice description of all the cars. Props to Larry Webster, Josh Condon, and Sam Smith from R & T for the nice articles.

Track times aside. How many cars will ONLY have a 1.5 second deficit with Corvette at 460HP, M4 at 425HP and the CS at 325HP? The time was all in the straights; horsepower. Cayman at 1.417 g's, M4 at 1.307, and the Vette at 1.305. Power to weight ratio: Cayman at 9.5lb/hp; M4 8.4lbh/hp, Vette 7.5lb/hp. Get the ratios even a little closer and then measure. Just don't measure dollar for performance. That's a race we lose to Stingray! Not a bad looking car, too.
 

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My main reason for not looking at something like an M4 is that I wanted this car to stay special. I didn't want it to turn into my DD and be used for errands and everything else. I didn't want it to be used up in 10 years.

An M4 is a fancy version of a 3-series. It might be a great version, but it's still an everyday car.

I wanted something that I'd take out occasionally and be excited about every time.
 
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I had made my comments re: R&T based on an erosion in confidence from prior articles over time. I noted that I had not read the article yet and perhaps as suggested by some it is well done..........in that case, I will stand corrected.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
An M4 is a fancy version of a 3-series. It might be a great version, but it's still an everyday car
On the flip side of the coin, people who own Ariol Atoms, Nobles, Shelby Cobras,etc. would say the same thing about our cars.
Your point was also acknowledged in the article. The author of the M4 commentary voluntarily noted that the M4 was the oddball of the three; as it wasn't a "purpose-built sports car."
 

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IMO no chevy should be compared to a Porsche. Just look at the interior and you will see poor build quality. too many plastic cheap pieces in corvette. The exterior seems to be designed by a teenager. And what is the benefit of all that horsepower when the chassis cant handle it? The whole thing does not even make sense.
 
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Mmm.
Well, 5, 10, 20, even 30 years from now we will all be better off owning a 2014 Porsche than a 2014 Chevy.
I like the look of the new corvette, but I am more in love with the overall experience and quality of the Cayman.
 

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On the flip side of the coin, people who own Ariol Atoms, Nobles, Shelby Cobras,etc. would say the same thing about our cars.
Shh ... You'll burst a bubble. ;) Everyone wants to think that what they own is "special". A real Cobra. Yes, that is special. A modern 981 or 911, no sorry, I'll take the million dollar 427 cobra any day of the week. That's special.

Superman ...

I know the following has nothing to do with the R&T article. I don't pay too much attention to these blogs and magazines these days. They are just trying to drum up business by mismatching vehicles. Don't worry about it. This is really for WW but its directly related to what you just said. In fact, you have made an excellent point.

... I wanted this car to stay special. I didn't want it to turn into my DD and be used for errands and everything else. I didn't want it to be used up in 10 years. ... I wanted something that I'd take out occasionally and be excited about every time.
WW, I know you’re excited. I've read your stuff for at least six months and I know you are very excited. That’s good :) But don't do it. Don't turn the car you have been waiting for all this time into a garage queen. :(

Forgetting the mechanical issues you will be inviting by not driving it, remember these three, more philosphical, things.

1. It's just a car. Just as Bluzpwr mentioned above, it's nothing special. Yes, I know that sounds like sacrilege but in 4 years from now, when the 981 replacement is announced, and then 10 years from now (as you mentioned), when you are two generations behind, you won't be thinking the same thing at all. Not sure what will be out then but you will not be thinking the same thing. ALL cars end up in the junkyard except for a very few, like a Carrera 2.7 RS. I KNOW the car is special to you just like all of our cars are special to each of us. But from the big picture view, its just a car.

2. Your car will be rotting and depreciating sitting there when you could be enjoying it every day. What's the point of owning it if you can't enjoy it?

I know I've said this before but Ferry Porsche’s quote stands "Our cars are meant to be driven, not polished". There is the image of the Porsche garage queen owner that takes their car out on sunny sundays, washes it, rinses, puts it away, repeat next week. Don't do it.

3. No car enthusiast will ever say on their deathbed "If only I had NOT driven my car so much over the years, I could have preserved it more". What are you saving it for? More likely they will be saying "If only I had taken out my car more often".

My wife tells me, and I believe this too, every time she drives the car she can be in a bad mood getting in, but by the time she drives home, she's in a good mood and smiling. Yes, my wife is a sports car person. She's driven sports cars all her life taking the Porsches everywhere.

I know this might sound like heresy but ... It's not exotic. No, it doesn’t look like a Ferrari, not even close. No, it doesn’t sound like V12 either. It's not a million dollar car. It's just a common car you see every day. Why should other Porsche owners be enjoying their cars and not YOU?

Life is to short to sweat the small stuff. Drive the crap out of your car. Drive it like you stole it. Every time you take it out, get the oil hot, roll down the window, turn on the exhaust, turn off the radio, and let the RPMs roar. EVERY TIME. Forget that you own a radio.

"Real sports car drivers listen to the engine, not iTunes." (OK, maybe in traffic). But, you get the point.

EVERY time either my wife or I get out of the car, we smile.

Every time. Each and Every time. It doesn't matter where we have been or if alone or together. EVERY TIME. We feel blessed.

Would you buy fine watch, say a $5,000 timepiece, and let it rot in a drawer? Or wear it every day?

What price can you put on anything that makes you smile every time you use it?

And you want to bottle it up and dole it out on rare occasions so it’s remains special? Seriously?

EVERY day is special. Every trip, Every Errand, Every time I turn the key, it’s special.

If it wasn't, I'd dump it in a heart beat.

We went to the grocery store today. Believe me, it was special. Well, actually it was a bit cramped with all the bags ;) and they were kind of flying around on the floor and stuff and my fried chicken spilled out in the carpet but you get the point. It was very special (and messy). And my wife told me (well never mind what she said ....) But you get the point. TAKE IT to the grocery store, and Best Buy, and every where else.

I also know this was probably a huge investment in money and that might be a concern. Don’t worry about it. In a few years, you will never look back but trying to figure out how to get that 2018 car that cost much more, or whatever.

Drive that crap out of that GTS and smile ….

If the time comes you get out of your car and aren't smiling, then dump it and move on to the next car. Because in the end, it's just a car and life it too short to drive boring cars (You can quote me on that).

Life is too short to drive boring cars.

Just saying ... I'm not trying to sound harsh or like a car commercial. But I think this might be your first "expensive" car and I hope you enjoy it every day of your life and not let it sit in a garage and rot. READ the threads where people justify buying their cars whether it be here or ANY pcar forum (they exist everywhere). You will see one common thing ... life is too short and you could be dead ... (not trying to be morbid but its a fact sometimes lost on the young).

Watch and drive the crap out of it ...



Sorry Bluzpwr, back to R&T ...
 
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