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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am looking at a 2007 2.7 with 25,000 miles. I had a Porsche dealer do the Multi-Point Inspection yesterday and they found "rear main at bellhousing seeping". It then says "CDW covered by warranty until 5/16/2011." What is CDW?
So... I've read many posts about this problem. Bottom line; this is otherwise a beautiful car in nearly perfect shape that has seen .68 seconds in Stage 1 revs and nothing above that. It will need rear tires soon.
Please tell me a little more about '07's and the rear main. Will this leak take out the clutch plate?
PS I am a mechanic and know about this stuff but not specifically about this engine/car.

Thanks in advance and I hope to be in the club with this car... , C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I did talk to them.... They simply reported a seeping rear main seal that would be covered under warranty. I'm just trying to deceide if this is a deal breaker. Is it OK to live with for a time? Will it take out the clutch if not addressed immeadiately? Thanks..
 

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I've been reading about RMS issues for years on the 986 and 987 but never experienced one myself. From what I have read, RMS seepage does not typically cause any clutch damage but many with leaks at higher miles opt to replace their clutch at the same time the RMS is repaired. I don't know what CDW means but dealer repairs using factory parts typically come with a 2 year warranty so I would guess the code relates to that. For more on RMS leaks, try a search on ppbb.com. If the price on the car is right, I wouldn't be deterred by the leak but I would want it fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmmm. Who replaces two tires and not four?
I think you'd be buying someone else's problem.
I'd pass.
:eek:
The fronts were at 6 and 5.5mm while the rears were at 2.8 and 2mm. The limit is 1.6mm. What's wrong with replacing the rears with OEM matching tires to get through inspection and get on the road? C.
 

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Nothing wrong with whatever you choose to do.

When it comes to skins on my car, I replace them all at once, usually long before their time. To heck with money. My life, when propelled at 140 mph needs to be riding on the best rubber possible and rubber that is in in optimal shape. We are talking about high performance vehicle, not mom and pop Chevrolets. The forces on those tires(Porsche) can be immense. Why gamble with millimeters. Besides, be prepared to spend a bit on your new baby. If you're looking just to get by or for economy, buy a Pontiac Solstice.

I was wondering why there is such a large discrepancy in tire tread wear on the car you are thinking of buying. That's all. I sorta smelled a rat. Would there be chance that that car hasn't been maintained in the manner that you think it was.

When I was a kid I once bought a motorcycle for 700 dollars and the helmet was 350 dollars. The salesperson asked me, "why such an expensive helmet for such a low priced bike?" I told him that I was buying it because it had a top of the line safety rating and plus, it looked cool.

He looked at me, nodding his head and said, "ya I guess you're right. Ten dollar head, ten dollar helmet."

All the best with your decision. I hope it all works out for you.
:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks cs, I am probably a little worn down and seeing $ signs more vividly. I won't be traveling at 140 but I do travel mountain roads and take your point. I set all our cars up with two sets of wheels and tires and am probably looking toward the 17's with snows that I will be buying soon. This car will be plenty safe for me with two new tires and besides, I can use the money I saved for an exhaust system.. As far as the uneven wear front to back, I didn't know what to make of that. I thought maybe they wore like that and combined with a few drifts and hole shots, that's what you get. This car saw only .68 seconds in Stage 1 revs so I don't think the owner was too rough. Thanks cs and everyone on this board for the help getting a car, it has made me so much more informed, C.
 

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My CS is much tougher on the rears, as is my M Coupe. I am accustomed to replacing rears first, so I do not consider that abnormal. Don't want to waste good rubber. OTH, if fronts are close to worn out, I agree it feels good to have all new.
 

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Crispy:

The real problem that you are facing here is that there is no way, short of pulling the transmission, to know with complete certainty whether the leak the dealer has detected is coming from the RMS or the IMS (intermediate shaft) bearing.

If it does turn out to be coming from the IMS, that is usually a prelude to a failing IMS bearing and total, nonrebuildable engine failure. That would make your concern about contaminating the pressure plate and clutch disc seem trivial, so tread carefully.

If you are 100% set on buying this car and are getting a really unbeatable deal, perhaps pulling the transmission to correctly diagnose and replace what is leaking would be the only prudent way to proceed.

Regards, Maurice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's not so much that I'm stuck on this car but I'm getting the feeling that many cars would/could have "seeping" rear mains. The dealer here that I would be using did not seem too turned off by this car. They were more than willing to do the fix under warranty. Question... At this early stage, if you pull the gearbox to do the rms and get a look at the ims bearing, can you tell if there has been an ims bearing problem? I understand later it may be easy to see but what about now? C.
 

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It's not so much that I'm stuck on this car but I'm getting the feeling that many cars would/could have "seeping" rear mains. The dealer here that I would be using did not seem too turned off by this car. They were more than willing to do the fix under warranty. Question... At this early stage, if you pull the gearbox to do the rms and get a look at the ims bearing, can you tell if there has been an ims bearing problem? I understand later it may be easy to see but what about now? C.
If they are willing to do the fix under warranty and you can personally (since you are a mechanic) take a look to verify that the IMS is NOT the source of the leak, then the RMS leak fix is relatively trivial (unless there is a problem with the engine casings which will then result in a continuing leak and more RMS replacements, but that's another story and not too common). The RMS leak is more of an annoyance. The IMS leak and/or failure is more likely to lead to catastrophic results.

Once you get a look at the rear of the engine and the RMS and IMS areas, if the IMS is not leaking you can still remove the flange and examine for axial and radial play, and whether the IMS bearing seal on the side of the bearing facing out is intact (it's a sealed bearing with "lifetime" grease"). Sometimes the threaded three holes into which the three bolts are screwed in to attach the flange leak, which is why new bolts come as "micro-encapsulated" bolts which are supposed to seal the threads. You can cut open the oil filter and examine carefully for metal particles.

If you want to get a real education about the IMS and its causes of failure and an aftermarket solution, take a look at the LNEngineering.com website, here: http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html.

It was initially proposed as a permanent solution, but they seem to now indicate that it's a good idea to inspect their replacement ceramic bearing every 50K, so you have to decide for yourself whether it's worth doing if this turns out to be your problem. Regardless, the information is very comprehensive and will help you understand the potential problem, etc...

Good luck with your acquisition, whichever one you decide on. You will now be a little better forearmed.:cheers:

Regards, Maurice.
 

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Crispy:

The real problem that you are facing here is that there is no way, short of pulling the transmission, to know with complete certainty whether the leak the dealer has detected is coming from the RMS or the IMS (intermediate shaft) bearing.

If it does turn out to be coming from the IMS, that is usually a prelude to a failing IMS bearing and total, nonrebuildable engine failure. That would make your concern about contaminating the pressure plate and clutch disc seem trivial, so tread carefully.

If you are 100% set on buying this car and are getting a really unbeatable deal, perhaps pulling the transmission to correctly diagnose and replace what is leaking would be the only prudent way to proceed.

Regards, Maurice.

Good point about the IMS bearing, but with only 25K miles that hadn't even entered my mind. Have you ever heard of an IMS-related issue with such low mileage?
 

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Good point about the IMS bearing, but with only 25K miles that hadn't even entered my mind. Have you ever heard of an IMS-related issue with such low mileage?
I don't have first hand experience with early (low mileage) failure, but Charles Navarro of LN Engineering and Jake Raby of flat 6 Innovations have reported failures with much lower mileage than 25K.

One important note, though. The IMS bearing setup adopted by the factory after about mid 2005 has supposedly had a much lower rate of failure than the earlier double-row or single row bearings before mid-2005. I say supposedly because no one by Porsche knows for sure...and they are not talking!:(

Regards, Maurice.
 

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I have a 2007 997.1 that I purchased CPO'ed with 1000 miles. At the first oil change (4000 miles) routine inspection at the dealership found RMS seepage. They replaced it under the CPO, no problem.
 

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It is possible that a RMS leak will lead, upon investigation, to nothing more than the replacement of a seal. It is also possible that it lead to the replacement of the $$$$ engine. The former is far far more likely than the latter. RMS failures are relatively rare on 987s but they do occur.

If the leak is from the IMS, then again the severity can vary. Catch it in time and all you do is replace the seals and bearings and bolts. Catch it too late and you have another engine that needs replacement.

So what to do once the PPI reveals a leak in the area where it could be either RMS or IMS and it could be trivial to fatal? IMHO You remove the transmission at a cost to someone of ~$1k and see what the problem is. You remove the problem area seal, measure and replace. If the RMS, you replace with a Porsche seal after measurement. If IMS, you determine after net research if you want to push for the LNengineering solution or to try another Porsche-sourced solution. A dealer may resist a non-Porsche sourced solution as it could affect any warranty.

Would I buy the car as it is reported by the PPI? Not without getting the problem fixed to my satisfaction. (I bought an '01S with a replaced RMS 5 years ago. Hasn't dripped a drop since. Drove it 120 miles in the rain this morning with confidence.)

If you ask what I'd do, I'd go in, determine the problem and its severity and put in the LN IMS solution even if it was the RMS and even if I had to pay for that part of the labor and parts.

Good luck, Boxsters are wonderful cars. Mine have been wonderfully reliable. YMMV.
 
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