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I am starting a new thread because the Cayman Sales declining thread is so polluted. I am sick of 981 owners dumping on the 718; that topic was old a year ago or more. However, I am becoming equally fed up with 718 owners or prospective owners who dump on 981's. They will say they do it in response to the negative crap coming from the other group and I get that, but it is time to stop acting like little children.

I would love to see one thread dedicated to complaints about the "other" type, and all bitching moved to it. Then I could just block that thread.
 

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Re: Cayman Sales Continue Downward Slide

For the record, I currently don't own a Porsche. I've been doing my research on the Cayman, present and past versions, for about 8 months now. Being part of this and other Porsche forums have been a great source of information for me as I finalize my purchasing decision. That being said, I feel the need to respond to this latest series of banter back and forth. I'm certain my opinion won't make me any friends on this forum but here it goes anyway.

It's hilarious to me how when the 718 bashers (mostly 981 owners) give their negative opinions over and over of the 718 its relevant to the thread topic but when a 718 owner, or someone who feels the 718 is just as good if not better than the 981, that it's viewed as off topic. You can't have it both ways. If 981 owners don't like the 718 don't buy it. Why do they feel the need to bash it? It's like me believing your girlfriend is ugly and feeling the need to tell you about it, over and over. We get it. You don't like the 718 sound and 4 cylinder turbo charged sports cars. Besides, wouldn't you rather spend your valuable time in the 981 forum discussion the car you love???

Enough already!!
Well there is a main reason for "Cayman sales to continue a downward slide". It is mainly a change in the essence of the car, which is a significant change from its 986,987, 981 roots. It is what it is, and no amount of excuses, complaints of bashing is going to change this.

Cheers
 

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As a Porsche and Cayman newbie, I don't think I have developed prejudices for this or that when it comes to these amazing cars. Hell, my 981 is the best 4 wheeled vehicle I have ever owned, I am amazed at the level of engineering and thoughtfulness (genius) I find in the car. But as I've driven it more, yes, I find at least one thing I was expecting a bit more of, and that is punch at the low end. It sounds (the other kind) like the 718 fixes that and I hope to at least try one at some point.

If the choice were the sound or the power and I had that choice to make today, unless the sound was like fingers on a chalk board I'd go with power and the torque bump. I understand we are all different and can disagree on many things, but if you don't like something fine, see you in the rearview. Well, not me in my 981 but the 981 with a MT. :) Come to think of it I hope to go PECATL and try a 718. And go back for a 911 experience at some point too!

Truly, I am happy to enjoy such an amazing machine I thought I'd never own. It's all good coming from the ground floor.
 

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OP: Good luck with this. Forums vary wildly in topical discipline ... and this one in particular is worse than most because people tend to NOT go out of their way to choose the proper place to react to something. They just DO, right then and there, wherever it is.

Just imagine how things would be if there were forums when the 944 was released. Or the 914. Or the original Cayenne.

(But at least this isn't rennlist, where the mods can't even be bothered to make a proper 718 subforum. That forum is an absolute morass and has become borderline unuseable.)
 

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Ha ha, nice thread! It has been my experience in life that the majority of people think their likes/dislikes to be universal, and get somewhat annoyed when someone does not agree with them. This is especially true of forums. I have a 987 so am not going to get into the 981/718 discussion, but I suspect I would very much enjoy driving either one of them. I do consider the engine sound of my 07 Cayman quite wonderful, but have always considered that a bonus, rather than a must-have.
 

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Every Porsche made since the Gmund days has its strengths and weaknesses, fans and detractors. Even the "icons" aren't universally loved (I think the 959 is a porky-looking engineering exercise that should never have made it to production). The 718 could sound and perform like the 918 and people would be complaining about the dash vents, or CarPlay, or whining that they paid 3 grand for GT Silver on their 981 and now it's the same price as all the other metallics. I buy and drive what I like, and really don't dive a damn what the majority of other people think. That said, there are a few regulars here on P9 whose opinions on various things Porsche I actually listen to and appreciate. That's what keeps me coming back.
 

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I am starting a new thread because the Cayman Sales declining thread is so polluted. I am sick of 981 owners dumping on the 718; that topic was old a year ago or more. However, I am becoming equally fed up with 718 owners or prospective owners who dump on 981's. They will say they do it in response to the negative crap coming from the other group and I get that, but it is time to stop acting like little children.

I would love to see one thread dedicated to complaints about the "other" type, and all bitching moved to it. Then I could just block that thread.
But I went from a 987 to a 982. I MUST mock the 981! /sarcasm

I love every iteration of the Cayman. Don't have a bad thing to say about the 981. Exceptional car.

I am absolutely fine with someone simply saying they prefer the sound of the 6. Heck, I just spent nearly a decade driving one.

But what perturbs me is the statement that a 4 pot doesn't warrant the price. I can't see the engine behind me when I'm driving. Sound is one thing, but otherwise performance is performance. If cylinders is the be all and end all, get an old V8 short block from a 20 year old camaro that has 200 HP. If the 4 turbo can beat the 6 in HP and torque, other than sound what does it matter?
 

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But what perturbs me is the statement that a 4 pot doesn't warrant the price. I can't see the engine behind me when I'm driving. Sound is one thing, but otherwise performance is performance. If cylinders is the be all and end all, get an old V8 short block from a 20 year old camaro that has 200 HP. If the 4 turbo can beat the 6 in HP and torque, other than sound what does it matter?
In fact, one of the most enjoyable sports cars I've ever owned (and I've had many of various makes/models over the years) had zero cylinders. It was my '93 Mazda RX-7 1.3 Twin turbo 252 HP, Wankel rotary engine.
 

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But what perturbs me is the statement that a 4 pot doesn't warrant the price. I can't see the engine behind me when I'm driving. Sound is one thing, but otherwise performance is performance. If cylinders is the be all and end all, get an old V8 short block from a 20 year old camaro that has 200 HP. If the 4 turbo can beat the 6 in HP and torque, other than sound what does it matter?

+1

While I understand 4 pots have historically been associated with more economic cars, it’s not always the case and times and technology change.


F1 has gone to smaller engines. Sure, like the 718, people complain about the sound but these new F1 cars go like stink and the drivers praise the torque. Ford's newest supercar (GT) is a V6 which is atypical for a supercar to have such few cylinders. Ford has recently changed the game in pickups by offering turbo 6s which have > towing capacity than the previous V8s. Remember the Lotus Esprit Turbo? I recall it being heralded has an affordable super car with an inline 4.

Now, let's consider the 718's competition, which is a bit bifurcated as it's difficult to find a direct comp. In short, if you’re looking at a mid engine competitor, you’re only going to find 4 pots. Front engine / rear drive competitors offer a mix. But, let’s face it, they have more room to do so.

* The 'Vette is a 2 seat sports car which puts out two models which compete with the 718, the base Stingray and the Grand Sport. I can't ever see this going away from a NA 8. First, while this car may compete with the price of the Cayman, it targets the 911 as its competition. And, it has a bit more of a history with its motor than the Cayman does with its.

* Alfa 4C uses an actual cheap I-4 (isn't it the same engine as the Dodge Dart?) and you don't hear that car being blatantly beat up for it.

*Lotus Elise uses a 4 pot and, unfortunately, it’s no longer available in the US, only UK and the rest of Europe

* Audi TT now only uses a 4 turbo save for the TTRS which uses an I5. In the past when Audi offered the VR6 motor, the 4 turbo was the better choice.

* Jag F-Type uses a 6. But, this car quickly competes with a 911 once you start adding a few options. Jag is starting to offer a 4 cylinder version to provide a lower price point.

*BMW Z4. The car is currently out of production. But, it’s priced similarly to a Boxster and offers both an I4 turbo and an I6 Turbo. It’s more of a cruiser than the Boxster. I don’t care what engine the Z has.

*Merc SLC uses an I4 turbo along with an AMG v6 turbo option


In summary, there are plenty of cars in the same price point which offer 4 cylinder mills. And, if it's a mid engine comp, the comp set is made up of 4 pots.

In my opinion (and this is going to set some people off which I'm not intending to do), the Boxster and Cayman were destined to be 4 pots based on Porsche's history of similar sized smaller cars. Why have the smaller sports cars in the lineup even try to compete with the main GT cars (911) by offering a similar engine? These cars should have been more differentiated from the 911s right from the start. Today, it feels right to me. The Boxster and Caymans have more differentiation with the 911s and the Boxster (roadster) is more expensive than the Cayman (coupe). For the most part, that's how the rest of the manufacturers do it.
 

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In fact, one of the most enjoyable sports cars I've ever owned (and I've had many of various makes/models over the years) had zero cylinders. It was my '93 Mazda RX-7 1.3 Twin turbo 252 HP, Wankel rotary engine.
Last week I put together a spread sheet of all the cars/SUVs/trucks that my wife and I have owned since 1968. (The total is 43. :crazy:) I've had all kinds of engines in my cars but I have never owned a car with a Wankel rotary engine. I feel like I have missed something. :(
 
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