[Westcoaster]

One thing that has been constant for some time with these cars and indeed any ICE car, the performance keep improving, not only power but handling and overall capabilities as well, however...

Soon for certain models this will end, and by end the very character of the model will change, oh sure it will have the same name but it will likely be built with either electric power augmentation or be purely electric, when that exactly happens is open for debate but it is on its way for sure! So with that in mind we all have a time schedule in our life, be it financial (still working to afford such things) or social (areas of the world where you simply can't get what you want) or age (being able to do and actually enjoy the driving experience), things like this and more determine when the time is right to get that special car for you!

 

[gtsilver]

Seems like there a lot of self serving marketing hype being parroted by some posters who have never been on a race track at anything close to the speeds needed to appreciate a gt4 suspension over a tuned X73, yet talk about it like it’s a must have. Lmfao.

Even auto reviewers that preferred the 718 Spyder as a track car couldn’t deny that the 981 Spyder was a little more raw, a little more visceral and a little more analog.

The 718 Spyder vs the 981 Spyder is not dissimilar than the Ferrari 488 vs the 458. The 488 is an improvement in almost every measurable performance metric over the 458 except 0-60. The 488 is similarly a little more aggressive with scoops and fins. Yet the 458 despite not being a limited production car is holding its value compared to the 488, just for the sound of its engine.

Engine
981 Spyder: classic tried and true Carrera 3.8 engine with that quintessential flat 6 howl
718 Spyder: 3 liter engine bored and stroked to 4.0. A bit more horses, same torque, same 0-60 time. Muffled howl.

Suspension
981 Spyder: I don’t think there is a suspension as universally lauded and praised as the X73 which was tuned for use on the 981 Spyder. The 981 Spyder was always designed as a specialty lightweight road car and is truly unique in that regard.
718 Spyder: will now share the same suspension with the GT4.
So If Nordschliefe times are the goal here, then this is the suspension to have. The simple yet superlative more analog X73 vs the buttoned down, precise Motorsport PASM suspension

Aesthetics
This is completely subjective, both cars are visually very similar. I slightly prefer the cleaner, less black plasticy look of the 981 Spyder but both cars represent imho, the prettiest current production Porsche you can buy.

Weight
981 Spyder lighter
718 Spyder heavier
Lighter is always better

Intangibles
The 981 Spyder is a very limited and rare car. Could someday this rare, analog, lightweight version command a premium? It’s possible.
The 718 Spyder production is currently slated to meet whatever demand is there so total numbers remain to be seen
Don’t forget the the parallels between the 718 Spyder and the 488 and the 981 Spyder and the 458.

Full disclosure, I own a 981 Spyder and am allegedly #2 on my dealer’s 718 Spyder allocation list. If I can get the garage space, I will try to hang onto both cars, particularly if they release a 718 Spyder with PDK.

Kind of had thoughts in back of my head about possibly trading my 2016 Spyder with 6000 miles for an 2020 718 Spyder.
New car warrantee; bigger engine, more HP, bigger wheels & tires, PASM, Car Play, backup camera.
I like some things that are new like Apple Car Play since 2016 can't do anything on screen.
Still interested in the Bucket seats but I am fine with the base seats I have in the 2016. Not sure I would be comfortable in them for 1-5 hour drives. Originally wanted them in my 2016 but saved $6K without them. I have to sit them again; not sure my 250 lb. body will be happy in them.
PASM would probably be a good thing.
I guess 39 more HP would be nice but also isn't really needed.
I've read that the Spyder now has the GT4 suspension but don't see anything the spec's about GT3 front suspension that the 2016 GT4 had.

Bad =
They aren't going to limit production so with only 700 2016 would I be trading in something that will be worth much more in the future ?
Currently they aren't offering anything great for trade in; 74-75K. Best offer was from Tesla for 83K. There are always some listed in Pano for 95-105K but I don't think they're selling for that.
I own this 2016; no payments. Configured at $108K - 75 = 33 That's $1000-550 depending how many months you finance for 36,48,60.
What's the sound changes in mufflers. I get prays everyday on how great it sounds. New filters in 2020 do what to sound.

 

[Westcoaster]

Seems like there a lot of self serving marketing hype being parroted by some posters who have never been on a race track at anything close to the speeds needed to appreciate a gt4 suspension over a tuned X73, yet talk about it like it’s a must have. Lmfao.

Even auto reviewers that preferred the 718 Spyder as a track car couldn’t deny that the 981 Spyder was a little more raw, a little more visceral and a little more analog.

The 718 Spyder vs the 981 Spyder is not dissimilar than the Ferrari 488 vs the 458. The 488 is an improvement in almost every measurable performance metric over the 458 except 0-60. The 488 is similarly a little more aggressive with scoops and fins. Yet the 458 despite not being a limited production car is holding its value compared to the 488, just for the sound of its engine.

Engine
981 Spyder: classic tried and true Carrera 3.8 engine with that quintessential flat 6 howl
718 Spyder: 3 liter engine bored and stroked to 4.0. A bit more horses, same torque, same 0-60 time. Muffled howl.

Suspension
981 Spyder: I don’t think there is a suspension as universally lauded and praised as the X73 which was tuned for use on the 981 Spyder. The 981 Spyder was always designed as a specialty lightweight road car and is truly unique in that regard.
718 Spyder: will now share the same suspension with the GT4.
So If Nordschliefe times are the goal here, then this is the suspension to have. The simple yet superlative more analog X73 vs the buttoned down, precise Motorsport PASM suspension

Aesthetics
This is completely subjective, both cars are visually very similar. I slightly prefer the cleaner, less black plasticy look of the 981 Spyder but both cars represent imho, the prettiest current production Porsche you can buy.

Weight
981 Spyder lighter
718 Spyder heavier
Lighter is always better

Intangibles
The 981 Spyder is a very limited and rare car. Could someday this rare, analog, lightweight version command a premium? It’s possible.
The 718 Spyder production is currently slated to meet whatever demand is there so total numbers remain to be seen
Don’t forget the the parallels between the 718 Spyder and the 488 and the 981 Spyder and the 458.

Full disclosure, I own a 981 Spyder and am allegedly #2 on my dealer’s 718 Spyder allocation list. If I can get the garage space, I will try to hang onto both cars, particularly if they release a 718 Spyder with PDK.

Cool, I hope that you can keep both for at least awhile so you can provide some first hand comparisons for us!

 

[gtsilver]

I’m really looking forward to the 718 Spyder. it’s a veritable bargain particularly next to the pricey Speedster and afaic, the Spyder is a prettier car. So It would be fun to do a comparison.

With regard to comparisons, I had a 991.2 911T for a couple of weeks in SoCal. Great car all around. I was surprised that the power delivery seemed a lot like the NA Porsche’s I’ve driven. The exhaust sound on the other hand was nice but not thrilling. I was surprised too that the acceleration felt comparable or even a touch less urgent than my 981 Spyder despite the T having sport+ PDK. Handling wise, the T felt planted, composed and taught, but I felt a little more removed from the road than in my Spyder. The Spyder also felt more nimble and cart like. Don’t get me wrong, if I was going to buy a new 911 that wasn‘t a GT3 it would probably be the T.

point being, with the possible exception of the GT3 which felt pretty cart like and precise but also incredibly fast with Sport PDK, there isn’t a 911 Id take over my 981 Spyder or one that I would buy over the 718 Spyder,

 

[Westcoaster]

I’m really looking forward to the 718 Spyder. it’s a veritable bargain particularly next to the pricey Speedster and afaic, the Spyder is a prettier car. So It would be fun to do a comparison.

With regard to comparisons, I had a 991.2 911T for a couple of weeks in SoCal. Great car all around. I was surprised that the power delivery seemed a lot like the NA Porsche’s I’ve driven. The exhaust sound on the other hand was nice but not thrilling. I was surprised too that the acceleration felt comparable or even a touch less urgent than my 981 Spyder despite the T having sport+ PDK. Handling wise, the T felt planted, composed and taught, but I felt a little more removed from the road than in my Spyder. The Spyder also felt more nimble and cart like. Don’t get me wrong, if I was going to buy a new 911 that wasn‘t a GT3 it would probably be the T.

point being, with the possible exception of the GT3 which felt pretty cart like and precise but also incredibly fast with Sport PDK, there isn’t a 911 Id take over my 981 Spyder or one that I would buy over the 718 Spyder,

High praise indeed, and although I have never driven a GT3, every other Porsche I have either driven or ridden in has left me with the same feeling you describe, a bit removed from the road, for me these best so far has been the 981 Boxster GTS. I have read every review and watched every video that I can find on the new 718 Spyder and the only weak point from a driving perspective (if it is even mentioned) is the rather tall gearing, I experienced this in the much less powerful GTS, but the added torque from the new engine should reduce this significantly.

What I also hear is about the incredible road feel, accurate steering and superb engine, this and the beautiful lines of the Spyder convinced me that I want to experience this first hand, and not just in a test drive! ?

 

[James III]

"New car warrantee; bigger engine, more HP, bigger wheels & tires, PASM, Car Play, backup camera." Almost all of these can be added to your Spyder without needing to trade it in or damage its long term value. I don't see enough difference between the 2 cars, but if you want a new toy go for it...and yes your 981 Spyder will likely keep its value better in some respect, but all Spyders are special, so the 718 will have excellent resale too.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[MotoJB]

I wouldn't think it's worth it...unless I were the type that ultimately didn't have to GAS about money.

To me, that kind of upgrade is simply putting money in a pile and lighting it on fire. No big deal to some but it is to me.

Everyone wants the next, best thing...more bling, more features, more power...when in reality, the supposed difference in enjoyment will wear off rapidly...as they come out with the next model, and the next, and the next. When does it end?

Hell, I just bought a "new" 4k mile 2013 981S for a song compared to new and although I'd certainly rather be driving (and can afford) a newer, more powerful 718 Spyder, it's just not worth the extra coin to me.

That extra coin to jump in a new model is a lot of memorable vacations, a new bike, or hell, another 4 wheel toy when you think of it.

Instead of a single, higher-end car, I have a 700hp 911tt, a 981S and a show-quality old school muscle car. I often want a Huracan but have realized it's really not going to make me any more excited and happy overall, especially once the newness wears off.

My .02 is to enjoy what you have. You barely have any miles on it. If you must, spend the money on something else.

 

[Westcoaster]

We all do it differently, some of us buy one car and keep it forever, never look any further, some buy multiple cars gathering a fleet of sorts, there are those that despise buying anything new and others who will only buy new... this is only part of the decision process that most of us use and it is certainly not the only criteria for our choices. As our life situation, needs and financial abilities change so usually does our approach and rationalization to owning things.

It would seem that the OP has the ability to choose what he wants in this case without upsetting any apple cart, he may want to experience the new 718 Spyder and the excitement of building the car just the way he wants, personalize it his way and that makes sense to me, but may not be understandable to everyone.

 

[Augie]

The decision is keep 981 Spyder.
Manhattan dealer never got back to me with a trade amount. At that time I was going go to the 2020 if the trade was 80 something ( car cost 87 four years ago). But he didn't.
Going to Porsche Ocala today for 4 yr. service and new Michelin PS 4S's and
Getting electronics updated to today - Alpine unit, backup camera, USB port, NAV, Apply Car Play, wireless, text messaging plus super window treatments that can see thru but don't let heat in (cool but pricey $299 windshield, $199 side glass).
All this will eliminate most of shortcoming for me of 981 vs 718.
Plus putting $5800 into car you would be nuts to then trade it.
Another big part of it was that the 981 Spyder was in affect a gift from my mom when she died in 2015. The financials she left me paid for the car over the past 4 years.
Thank you all for helping me decide.

 

[canux]

...plus super window treatments that can see thru but don't let heat in (cool but pricey $299 windshield, $199 side glass).

I’ve been looking for exactly this. I’d love to hear what you bought and what you think off it.

 

[Croc'ed]

Augie, I'm glad that you were able to make an informed decision. Now that your Spyder is refreshed, go out and enjoy many more miles of smiles driving it.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Augie]

I’ve been looking for exactly this. I’d love to hear what you bought and what you think off it.

3M 90% Crystalline Windshield was $279.99 and 2 side windows 3M Chrystalline roll up $199.99 less $125 discount
total $354.98
Waiting for electronics parts that were ordered; no installation date yet

 

[Goofnik]

Honestly on "long gearing"... people are just spoiled by torque. I dunno. I test drove all sorts of nonsense (up to ~600lb-ft) over the years before I finally sold my Miata for a Porsche, and you have to remember that the journalists are people who have driven a bajillion cars, and are a bit spoiled by all the torque-monsters that existed in 2015, since they have the experience in which to draw a comparison.

Yes, 981s have gearing you'd more expect from a Chevy Small Block than a 2.7L - 3.8LNA flat-six. Though for when it was released (late 2015), I'd still put the Spyder juuuust over the line from "very quick" to "fast". That's the big difference between the 987 and the 981 Spyders, in which the 981 has a much more muscular character (for better and for worse). So similar to a CSB, it's a car you'll downshift to 1st for very slow corners. Just do it, instead of complaining about it when it's in 2nd.

That said, given that Porsche enforces software changes with hardware, the Spyder does have a little bit of a mid-range dead zone, and there's a less aggressive cam in it, from other versions of the 3.8L. Software can free it up a bit, but long-term, hardware (internals, not bolt-ons) will really open it up. I mean it. My mechanic reckons that for someone willing, you can get a Spyder to a Ferrari F430 Spyder's P/W ratio (all motor, no FI) if you were willing to spend, in addition to addressing the gearing. Having driven a few F430s and 458s, that's frighteningly fast for a Boxster.

Though honestly, for a car I consider "the world's best Miata" (because of the speeds it plays best in), that's going off the deep end, and why all I've done so far is geometry tweaks, and now looking at slowly improving the suspension hardware to have infallible confidence when blitzing back roads. These cars will always be more impressive in the twisties, not a straight line. Geo changes are very cheap, but the net effect is very noticeable. Don't underestimate what proper alignment can do.

 

[Westcoaster]

@Goofnik, your comments above are specific about the 981 Spyder and it's 3.8l correct?

 

[Goofnik]

@Goofnik, your comments above are specific about the 981 Spyder and it's 3.8l correct?

I'd definitely consider it valid for the 3.4L as well.
Been too long since I've driven a 2.7L for me to say, but with a prior decade in a Miata (and used to momentum cars), everyone today is spoiled for torque.

 

[Westcoaster]

I'd definitely consider it valid for the 3.4L as well.
Been too long since I've driven a 2.7L for me to say, but with a prior decade in a Miata (and used to momentum cars), everyone today is spoiled for torque.

OK, got it, so earlier when you said "get a Spyder to a Ferrari F430 Spyder's P/W ratio (all motor, no FI)", are you referring to an engine rebuild/with HP goodies to increase the overall output? And if so what do you figure that HP number would be?

 

[cosmic charlie]

The decision is keep 981 Spyder.
Manhattan dealer never got back to me with a trade amount. At that time I was going go to the 2020 if the trade was 80 something ( car cost 87 four years ago). But he didn't.
Going to Porsche Ocala today for 4 yr. service and new Michelin PS 4S's and
Getting electronics updated to today - Alpine unit, backup camera, USB port, NAV, Apply Car Play, wireless, text messaging plus super window treatments that can see thru but don't let heat in (cool but pricey $299 windshield, $199 side glass).
All this will eliminate most of shortcoming for me of 981 vs 718.
Plus putting $5800 into car you would be nuts to then trade it.
Another big part of it was that the 981 Spyder was in affect a gift from my mom when she died in 2015. The financials she left me paid for the car over the past 4 years.
Thank you all for helping me decide.

Wise move.

 

[Goofnik]

OK, got it, so earlier when you said "get a Spyder to a Ferrari F430 Spyder's P/W ratio (all motor, no FI)", are you referring to an engine rebuild/with HP goodies to increase the overall output? And if so what do you figure that HP number would be?

Pretty much. If you're at the point in the future (2035 - 2040) where you're doing a full rebuild, that's where it makes sense to see what nice parts that exist in the future can be put in. Regardless, the big limit on the mid-engine platform is keeping the intake charge temps down, and enough air through the engine compartment to prevent heat soak.

I reckon 450HP would be the realistic upper limit on the top-end if you aren't boring it out, with 430-435HP being more realistic, but it's going to take very pricey bits to get there. With some reasonable weight loss (2950 curb weight fueled), you'd have a P/W ratio in the same ballpark as an F430 Spyder in something I could still live with every day.

That's goofy quick for a Boxster, which is why I'm spending all the time now just nailing down how it rides and handles.

 

[Westcoaster]

Pretty much. If you're at the point in the future (2035 - 2040) where you're doing a full rebuild, that's where it makes sense to see what nice parts that exist in the future can be put in. Regardless, the big limit on the mid-engine platform is keeping the intake charge temps down, and enough air through the engine compartment to prevent heat soak.

I reckon 450HP would be the realistic upper limit on the top-end if you aren't boring it out, with 430-435HP being more realistic, but it's going to take very pricey bits to get there. With some reasonable weight loss (2950 curb weight fueled), you'd have a P/W ratio in the same ballpark as an F430 Spyder in something I could still live with every day.

That's goofy quick for a Boxster, which is why I'm spending all the time now just nailing down how it rides and handles.

Ahhh, I see! So it would seem that you are now referring to the 3.8l in the 981 Spyder, 430-435HP would be a nice bump for the engine but, and I agree not inexpensive or easy to do.

Then are you suitably impressed with the 718 Spyder (yes a larger engine by 200cc) now being offered with 414HP? As for the curb weight, that extra 30kg is too bad but I am hoping that with a few carefully chosen options this can be shaved down a little. ?

 

[Goofnik]

Then are you suitably impressed with the 718 Spyder (yes a larger engine by 200cc) now being offered with 414HP?

No. A "standard" Porsche engine was 100HP/L in 2012. 991.1 Carrera S engines were 105HP/L. 991.1 GTS engines were 113HP/L. 991.2 GT3 RS engines are 130HP/L, granted the price of what it takes to get there is brutal. Although the 9A2 Evo is neat, it's still "built to a price", which is a price at or below that of a base 911. 103.5HP/L means it's time-tested, cost-effective stuff.

My cost to upgrade to a 718 Spyder, as I've mentioned, is ~$42,000 all said and done. That's ~$1075 per additional HP. Yes, it's more than "just HP", but $42K for incremental upgrades is the definition of setting money on fire. I didn't buy my first Spyder by doing things like that, and I'm still mad at the bit I lit on the Cayman. Keep in mind that eventually a car will succeed the 718 Spyder. Do you buy that too? Wait, that one got succeeded as well -- crap, better buy that as well. Some people do this, and have the means to do this, but I'd hate to be a miserable unhappy person that never has "the best" and is 6-digits poorer to show for it.

The reason you wait for a rebuild is because a rebuild using stock components is going to be $18-20K as it is. Most of that being labor. Since you're already spending the money, you spend more on what's possible at the time since you're already in there, as well as anything that addresses any issues or weaknesses that are uncovered in the future. The extra cost won't be trivial, but you can get the cost more around $300 per additional HP because you're mostly just paying additional money for parts at this point.

This is what people do with classic car engine rebuilds. They do upgrades because they're rebuilding the engine anyways, and already eating huge labor costs. Ergo, my idea is to just wait until my engine is approaching the point where it needs a rebuild. Doing it any earlier is just setting money on fire. Buying a new car is also setting money on fire. I'm patient. New internals don't exist yet. I am not dissatisfied with my car. Ergo, I wait, and will continue to wait for a long time.