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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All, I think this will be a helpful thread for many P9ers who have been at least thinking of their options since the GT4 was released. I am going to give you my story and will probably do a good job of answering my own question.

I absolutely love cars. I have changed 8 times in the last 5 years. My last 3 have been P cars. 987S, 981BS and now 981 CGTS. They have all been incredible cars and this is very much the reason why I am asking this question. Each were purchased about a year apart. I don't like taking car finance, so have managed to budget, save and purchase each car cash.

I'm from Cape Town, South Africa and am fortunate to have some of the best driving roads available on the planet within 10 minutes of where I live. The weather is great 9-10 months of the year and a little wet for 2-3 months but no snow. I work about 15 min drive from home and 80% of this is highway driving with strict speed control via speed over distance cameras. My GTS is my daily driver.

So here it is...I love the Cayman GTS. I upgraded from the BS as I really liked the lines of the coupe and it really represented the complete package. As we all know all the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. I received the car on 2 Jan 2015. It now has 1000km on the clock and I am still running her in. No doubt this is the best sports car I have ever owned and I haven't even scratched the surface of the performance potential yet. It looks amazing in Sapphire on Black with GTS ext pack. It sounds amazing (had PSE on the BS and this really is on another level with the symposer) It handles like nothing else I've driven (981BS had std suspension. 981CGTS has PASM). There is definitely a perceptible performance difference 232KW vs 250KW. And now the GT4 arrives!

As a daily driver I believe the CGTS is probably the superior car.
(1) More compliant suspension setup
(2) PDK vs MT
(3) Fuel consumption
(4) All the luxuries: upgraded sound, PDC etc
(5) More reasonable ride height
(6) Arguably cleaner looks
(7) Lower running costs
(8) Slightly less conspicuous on the road

But obviously I wouldn't be writing this post if a part of me wasn't secretly lusting over the GT4

Now the big caveat here is that in South Africa....PSA will void your warranty and maintenance plan if you track your car! The only exceptions are Porsche sanctioned Precision Driving Courses. We don't have regular DE ,AutoX, Track days....and none are sanctioned by Porsche. So if you track your car...you are on your own if anything goes wrong.

Why I love the GT4
(1) Finally a 3.8L engine we've been asking for and possibly the last NA 6 we'll ever see in a Boxster/Cayman
(2) Epic GT looks
(3) All the GT engineering: performance, braking, suspension setup etc
(4) Probably a future collectors item
(5) A really incredible price for all of the above

So this is where you all come in. And I ask you because in many ways you have helped me in my previous purchasing decisions.

(1) Should I place my order for a GT4 and sell my GTS (GTS prices will still be very strong here...there is currently not a single pre-owned GTS available on the market and at least a 4 month waiting list)

(2) Should I keep my GTS in the knowledge that it probably will suit my needs better than a GT4 as a daily driver. That everyday will be a fun day rather than just on weekends. That the performance limits of this car already exceed my limits as a driver by some margin. That not being able to track either car , means that the GTS is better suited to road duty. That the 981.2 will be available in 2016 and may turn out (I really don't know how that would be possible...but Porsche somehow manages to do it every time) to be a better looking and performing car, which means at least I would have had over a year driving and enjoying my GTS as opposed to waiting at least 6 months for the GT4

I know that the final decision ultimately is an individual one, but I would appreciate your input and I'm sure many others would too. Looking forward to your posts!
 

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I am not sure this is close enough to your dilemna but here goes. I had an 08CS that I bought new......during the three years that I owned it, I test drove a 997 TT and an Audi TTRS with the thought of trading. Each time, my CS won over as it better matched my spec. Then the Cayman R came along..........I decided that having the 'baddest' Cayman at the time with upgraded suspension, 35 more hp, lighter weight et al was worth it. I did not nor do I track my cars so these are pure DDs. I ultimately decided that for DD the Cayman R while great fun did not represent the change I thought it would. I now drive a 981 2.7L with PDK (the first 2 were 6MT). This 981, for my DD spec with its even more integrated behavior, taughtness in the twisties et al is the best fit for me. So, again, this is just me but for a DD in particular weigh carefully what the car brings in specification vis-a-vis what you really value/is important to you.
 

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kudos to doing so well you can afford to car hop so much. being seems money is not an option for you, why not get a loaded gt4. that said if money is a concern, you are not really getting too much else from a gt4 other than bigger engine and looks/label.
 

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^^^ well thought out. So, it would be a lot easier decision if the GTS was not such a wonderful car. But, if the GT4 takes it further you've got to go for it. Funny, there is an overwhelming and unambiguous demand from the 911 community. Many Carrera S and GT3 owners posting the are getting one. I don't think Porsche was anticipating how many 911 owners say they are making the switch (or adding the car to their stable). Demand will far outpace supply- my prediction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am not sure this is close enough to your dilemna but here goes. I had an 08CS that I bought new......during the three years that I owned it, I test drove a 997 TT and an Audi TTRS with the thought of trading. Each time, my CS won over as it better matched my spec. Then the Cayman R came along..........I decided that having the 'baddest' Cayman at the time with upgraded suspension, 35 more hp, lighter weight et al was worth it. I did not nor do I track my cars so these are pure DDs. I ultimately decided that for DD the Cayman R while great fun did not represent the change I thought it would. I now drive a 981 2.7L with PDK (the first 2 were 6MT). This 981, for my DD spec with its even more integrated behavior, taughtness in the twisties et al is the best fit for me. So, again, this is just me but for a DD in particular weigh carefully what the car brings in specification vis-a-vis what you really value/is important to you.
Thanks Ronald. I doubt many would say that the GTS isn't a better proposition than a GT4 as a daily driver. Just like a 2.7L 981 is probably more than one would need as a DD. I guess a lot of the current chatter is not that the GTS is no longer a great car, but that the price point at which they brought in the GT4 is so incredibly close to that of a well specc'ed GTS and therefore it looks like a relative bargain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^^ well thought out. So, it would be a lot easier decision if the GTS was not such a wonderful car. But, if the GT4 takes it further you've got to go for it. Funny, there is an overwhelming and unambiguous demand from the 911 community. Many Carrera S and GT3 owners posting the are getting one. I don't think Porsche was anticipating how many 911 owners say they are making the switch (or adding the car to their stable). Demand will far outpace supply- my prediction.
Thanks Matt. There is no doubt that this car is going to be rare and heading for collector status. GT3 prices are unaffordable for most. Here is a car that at first glance seems to have it all...but, the GTS is so incredibly perfect in it's own right, without the inherent compromises a GT car undoubtedly has. I think the price point is the real kicker. If only they had brought out a 981 GTS4�� A 981CGTS with that lovely 3.8L!
 

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I think if you are going to track the car and have the financial resources, get the GT4 - no brainer. If you are not going to track your car, its just not worth it. The GTS is awesome and already more than the street can handle. A GT4 would be a waste of money as a road car unless you are paying for the aesthetics and bragging rights. If that is your motivation then the GT4 is worth it even if you are going to use if for a street car.
 
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Illl get me CGTS in two weeks and thinking about the same thing. I´m still not sure if the GT4 isn´t to much a track tool. So I personally came to the conclusion. To getting my new CGTS as planed in two weeks. I´ll will tell my salesperson at Porsche that he has to reserve ist last GT4 allocation he will get (when ever this is). Until than ill have fun with my GTS, we all will see how the GT4 is doing. When i get the call that he can now order the last GT4 i have the choice, maybe the is the PDC or PDK available at this point of time.

Especially in you case, where is no GTS used car market you will also get a good price for your GTS in one year
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
kudos to doing so well you can afford to car hop so much. being seems money is not an option for you, why not get a loaded gt4. that said if money is a concern, you are not really getting too much else from a gt4 other than bigger engine and looks/label.
Thanks minthral, I have been fortunate enough to always buy and sell at the right time. My BS was one of the first 5 in the country. Drove it for 11 months and lost almost nothing when I sold it. I think that is one of the big issues for me. When the 981.2 comes out next year, the current 981's are going to take a whack depreciation wise. The GT4 however will in all likelihood fair much better in both the short and long term. So do you spend a bit more now to save more in the long run? It's a difficult question.
 

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I've traded the GTS fo a GT4 simply because it's more track focused. I walk to work and we my 991 turbo for errands - GTS was a Sunday toy so just swapping a great toy for another one. Both great but I would have kept my GTS if I drove to work. Good news for current GTS owners is that the cars have very much held up in values owing to limited production as of now if they are thinking of trading in.
 
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I think if you are going to track the car and have the financial resources, get the GT4 - no brainer. If you are not going to track your car, its just not worth it. The GTS is awesome and already more than the street can handle. A GT4 would be a waste of money as a road car unless you are paying for the aesthetics and bragging rights. If that is your motivation then the GT4 is worth it even if you are going to use if for a street car.

From a rational perspective, you are 100% on target. Getting a GT4 for the street is an absolute waste of money. I have a 981S and I rarely have the opportunity of even scratching the potential of my car. On the other hand I have been a Porsche owner for many years, and I have met many 911 owners who bought their cars as a status symbol, much like the guy in his 50s who marries a beautiful busty blonde who is 20 years + his junior.

The GT4 will be the top of the pecking order in the 981 world. So if that's important to a buyer and he has the money, than I'd say go for it. In my case I went from a 997S to a 981S. My intent was to replace my 997S with a 991S, but I just couldn't rationalize the $30K+ premium for the 991S. So prestige means little to me, but I fully understand that it's an important issue for others.
 

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I think if you are going to track the car and have the financial resources, get the GT4 - no brainer. If you are not going to track your car, its just not worth it. The GTS is awesome and already more than the street can handle. A GT4 would be a waste of money as a road car unless you are paying for the aesthetics and bragging rights. If that is your motivation then the GT4 is worth it even if you are going to use if for a street car.
Joe... I'm in a similar situation of having my GTS "on the way" --- and have to deal with the notion of not taking the GTS and trying to buy a GT4.

But, Subshooter.... you've captured it well. if you track the GT4, enjoy it, but that's IT... no protections. And, if you look at all the information out there, the GT4 was produced as a homologation requirement for GT4 Racing. So, guess what, it is a track toy! The rest is just icing on the cake, so to speak.

On to the collectability point -- given the buzz and the limited production numbers, the GT4 will enjoy some collectability credibility. So, Jay Leno's out there, buy the car and have it in your collection, even drive it now and then to shows, cars n coffee, whatever, but DD?? are you kidding me? Also good luck getting one.

Joe, as you said, by writing down the analysis, you may answer your question. For me, it was a clearly predictable outcome --- I'm going to take the GTS, enjoy it for all sorts of driving (touring, trips to the market, a couple track days, car's N coffee, etc.) --- and even, if given the chance, will congratulate those who can enjoy a GT4 for track days. (PS -- for me, track days are a time/place to exercise my car, push it to maybe 85-90% ONLY, and not even worry about lap times or if anyone passes me with a more powerful (or $$$) car. I mean, do I worry about being passed by a GT-R or C7 or GT3/4 --- nah...)

D
 

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I'm in a similar position as OP. 2015 GTS in hand (picked up Dec 2014). I'm on my dealer's list (#4) for a GT4 and he recently indicated that I would probably get a car but toward the end of 2015 if not early 2016. While I've not given up my slot, at the moment, I'm leaning toward passing on the first edition of the GT4 and waiting for the " .2 " version. I believe ".2" will have PDK and will offer the typical incremental improvements over the first edition (see difference between current 991 GT3 and previous GT3). I'm also not interested in collector status....prefer to drive till I drop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think if you are going to track the car and have the financial resources, get the GT4 - no brainer. If you are not going to track your car, its just not worth it. The GTS is awesome and already more than the street can handle. A GT4 would be a waste of money as a road car unless you are paying for the aesthetics and bragging rights. If that is your motivation then the GT4 is worth it even if you are going to use if for a street car.
Great points! This car will probably the track at most once a year. I love duck tail, mirrors, wheels and brakes. Not the boot spoiler so much. You have got to love the engine! I would really miss PDK though. Resale value on the GT4 will surely trump the GTS. So many pros on both sides. Gotta hate the GTS for being so perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've traded the GTS fo a GT4 simply because it's more track focused. I walk to work and we my 991 turbo for errands - GTS was a Sunday toy so just swapping a great toy for another one. Both great but I would have kept my GTS if I drove to work. Good news for current GTS owners is that the cars have very much held up in values owing to limited production as of now if they are thinking of trading in.
I don't think it gets much better than having a 991 Turbo and a 981 GT4 in the garage! Congrats. I definitely wouldn't walk anywhere if I had that perfect pair
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm in a similar position as OP. 2015 GTS in hand (picked up Dec 2014). I'm on my dealer's list (#4) for a GT4 and he recently indicated that I would probably get a car but toward the end of 2015 if not early 2016. While I've not given up my slot, at the moment, I'm leaning toward passing on the first edition of the GT4 and waiting for the " .2 " version. I believe ".2" will have PDK and will offer the typical incremental improvements over the first edition (see difference between current 991 GT3 and previous GT3). I'm also not interested in collector status....prefer to drive till I drop.
If I got the GT4 I would drive it everyday...collector value would be a bonus based on rarity rather than low milage. But not sure if stressing about every pothole, drain cover, incline and speed bump would kill the joy of driving it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Joe... I'm in a similar situation of having my GTS "on the way" --- and have to deal with the notion of not taking the GTS and trying to buy a GT4.

But, Subshooter.... you've captured it well. if you track the GT4, enjoy it, but that's IT... no protections. And, if you look at all the information out there, the GT4 was produced as a homologation requirement for GT4 Racing. So, guess what, it is a track toy! The rest is just icing on the cake, so to speak.

On to the collectability point -- given the buzz and the limited production numbers, the GT4 will enjoy some collectability credibility. So, Jay Leno's out there, buy the car and have it in your collection, even drive it now and then to shows, cars n coffee, whatever, but DD?? are you kidding me? Also good luck getting one.

Joe, as you said, by writing down the analysis, you may answer your question. For me, it was a clearly predictable outcome --- I'm going to take the GTS, enjoy it for all sorts of driving (touring, trips to the market, a couple track days, car's N coffee, etc.) --- and even, if given the chance, will congratulate those who can enjoy a GT4 for track days. (PS -- for me, track days are a time/place to exercise my car, push it to maybe 85-90% ONLY, and not even worry about lap times or if anyone passes me with a more powerful (or $$$) car. I mean, do I worry about being passed by a GT-R or C7 or GT3/4 --- nah...)

D
Great points D. I knew the GT4 was on the way...just not this soon. I delayed delivery of my GTS so I could register it as a 2015 model. It is an amazing car...so much fun to drive, so comfortable and luxurious, unintimidating and confidence inspiring, faster than anyone on a public road could wish for, beautiful to look at....for a road car it's close to perfection! This P9 therapy really seems to be working��
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
if you can afford...


its a no brainer!
Was waiting for your input Schnell. Can I afford the change...Yes. Should I change...still not sure. Do I feel screwed by Porsche? No, the GTS is still an amazing car whether the GT4 appeared or not. All they've done by pricing it the way they have is make it more difficult for me to ultimately decide what I really want from my sports car. The reality is, neither car is really going to be tracked. The roads in Cape Town are some of the best in the country, but they are not perfect. My big fear is that I change to a GT4 and then realise that in real world driving conditions, you can't exploit the extra power the GT4 brings over the GTS and secondly, the harsh ride and fear of scraping on every pothole, incline and speed bump takes away from the joy of simply driving a beautiful fast performance car. Decisions decisions.
 

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I have that 30 below in the suspension..I have no problem navigating roads. Resale wise ur on the up side..I have a old e320 that I beat up..but canyon time ..the s comes out...lemon
 
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