[supertbone]

Hi Guys,

I posted back in December about my experience going with Numeric Racing shifter cables when my OEM cables broke. You can read that saga here if you like:
http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-and-boxster-chat/115977-not-liking-my-numeric-cables.html

The TLDR version is:
I bought a 2008 Cayman S with 76k miles in October. A cable broke in December (OEM, presumably the original cables). I had my preferred shop replace with Numeric Racing cables despite their recommendation to go with the latest OEM cables. I didn't like them for multiple reasons. I insulated them to fix the noise issue, but never got used to the notchy feel.

The update is that when some cold-ish weather finally found it's way to Dallas, the gear selection notchiness seemed worse. Shifting into 1st was really difficult when cold. Going into 2nd and 3rd felt clunky since I could feel multiple points when the gears were synchronizing (seems like I read somewhere these cars have 2-stage synchros on 1st/2nd/3rd gears). Sometimes it felt like it kinda stuck as I was sliding from 2nd to 3rd. 4th/5th/6th felt okay. I finally decided to take the car back in to the shop - not specifically to swap cables but to check if I needed some sort of transmission service.

The owner of this indy shop was a Porsche Master Technician up until about 2013. I had him drive the car cold and he said there was possibly 3 things going on:
1) Most of what I was feeling was due to the way the NR cables transmit absolutely every bit of motion from the transmission selectors.
2) The car has 78k miles now. Gear oil change interval is 90k miles. New oil might improve it.
3) Porsche designed a pin into the tranny that prevents shifting down to 1st at speed. 1st is only meant to be selected from a stop. This pin prevents you from over-revving the engine and bending a valve.

I agreed that the NR cables were not for me. So I agreed to swap to the latest OEM cables. Yes, that's right - after paying $500 for NR cables and $400 for installation, I paid again to swap to OEM. Now there was a lot of discussion in my last thread about which cables are the latest and how much they cost. So I was careful to make sure I got the latest version. I waited as he called Porsche Plano and ordered the cables. They were $376 and they confirmed these are the latest. Yes, I saw Pelican Parts has something for $800. Best I can tell from the diagram is that it also includes a new shifter, boot and handle. Anyway, he charged me the $376 for the cables and only $300 to swap the cables this time. I think he took pity on me since I readily admitted that I should have taken his advice the first time.

The gear oil change was only $50. That seemed like a no-brainer.

Now the 1st gear speed-pin-lockout-thingy (#3) was news to me. The only gear lockouts I've ever experienced were Reverse lockout and the stupid gas saver 1st-to-4th skipshift in my old 1998 Camaro Z28 (LS1 engine). I did a couple of quick Google searches and occasionally see Cayman owners complaining about not being able to select 1st, especially when cold. But nothing yet about this lockout. This guy has proved to be very knowledgeable about all things Porsche so I'm inclined to believe this thing exists. In my case it seems like it certainly is sensitive to cold. Like - once it warms up I can downshift to 1st below 10mph. So I wonder if this "pin" has gotten sticky over time. Who knows, maybe the new gear oil will loosen it up?

So I've driven the car for a whopping 15 miles after getting it back. So far:

The OEM cables feel so much better to me. It's been too long since I drove the car with the original cables, so I can't give you a reasonable comparison there. But compared to the NR cables, the linkage seems so much smoother! I imagine this is what it felt like when new. So very happy. It still definitely limits my entry to 1st gear. At least when cold. I suspect that after warm-up I will find it shifts to 1st okay at low speeds.

Also:
I have some lightly used NR cables and wrench for sale if somebody wants to try them. I'm in the north Dallas TX area. I hope you have a better experience with them than I did.

I can shed some more light about tightening the NR cable coupler nuts - they should be tightened against the end housing (as shown in some of the NR pictures) and not against the coupler (as I had done). The coupler is fused to the reverse-threaded rod that's on the end-housing-side.

 

[7West]

I remember your previous thread. That's unfortunate you did not give it more time as you most likely needed to play around with the cable length. I had to crawl under my car and fiddle with my cables twice to get the gears to engage properly. They felt very tight after my second adjustment but after a few weeks they 'stretched' and settled in. Now my shifts are rock solid and confident. The OEM cables in my car (2012 CS) were practically new when I switched to the NR cables and SSK. I cannot imagine going back to the 'vague' OEM feeling.

On a side note, I live in Southern Ontario and it was -15 celcius not too long ago. Going into 1st from a standstill does take a bit of effort in cold weather but it's not really an issue. By the way, why are you downshifting into 1st? Am I reading that right?

 

[supertbone]

"why are you downshifting into 1st? Am I reading that right?"

Is downshifting to 1st really something you never do? When I get into stop-n-go traffic on the turnpike I'll find myself varying from 5mph to 15mph. 5mph is too slow for 2nd without bogging the engine. 15mph is unnecessarily fast for 1st. So I'll try to downshift somewhere around 8-10mph. Very low throttle input under this condition. This seems completely reasonable to me. To keep it in 2nd I would have to slip the clutch ... constantly ... to maintain slower speeds. If the car is cold, it's reluctant to go into 1st until like 5mph or less. Not that it WON'T go - I just have to be very patient with it.

If the car is warmed up and I care to drive aggressively I don't think it's out of the question to shift into 1st at 15mph. The engine would not even be halfway to redline. The only other stick shift cars I've owned were V8 ponycars - a 1985 Mustang LX 5.0 and a 1998 Camaro Z28. Those cars had zero issues with downshifting to 1st under any of these conditions.

 

[Highlander]

Shifting to first whilst slowing down. When my '07 S is cold, I find a quick blip of the throttle as I'm coming to one of the 4 stop signs I have to negotiate before even getting out of my neighborhood really helps the gearbox slip smoothly into first.

 

[7West]

"why are you downshifting into 1st? Am I reading that right?"

Is downshifting to 1st really something you never do?

Ah, Ok, I now see what you mean. I thought were were regularly downshifting into 1st when coming to a stop.

 

[supertbone]

Highlander,
Yes, I've noticed that rev-matching does, at least sometimes, help the shifting issue.

In fact, this experience has caused me to start learning to heel-toe while braking. I've never tried this before and at first thought it would be overly difficult - even dangerous if you accidentally end up on the gas when you need the brakes. But I found the best way to practice is when I'm already completely stopped at a light. Then I can hold the brake and practice blipping the gas with the same foot (while the people around me think I'm a stereotypical Porsche moron revving at a stoplight). I'm using the method where you keep the ball of your foot on the brake and roll the right side of your foot onto the gas. I believe this is still referred to as "heel-and-toe" even though you don't actually use your heel.

The other day my son wanted to play a racing game on the computer so I hooked up the old Logitech steering wheel/pedals/shifter kit. Yes its a toy, but a surprisingly high quality toy. I took the opportunity to goof around a few minutes with it. On that setup I find that using actual heel of my foot works better. It seems to depend on the height relationship between the depressed brake pedal and the un-depressed gas pedal. If the gas pedal is higher, I want to use my heel to reach up and grab it. If the gas pedal is even or lower then I want to roll my foot over to blip it.

Heel-and-toeing out on the roads makes it sound like I'm racing around driving like an 18-year-old. I'm doing this stuff at very normal speeds (which might be making the heel-toe harder since the brake is not depressed very much) just for the fun of it and to help going into 1st.

 

[srogers]

Sorry for your experience with the cable debacle. Hopefully you're satisfied now (or soon) and can enjoy the car. I don't think a car can never be exactly perfect, but it can be pretty close.

I've never owned a manual vehicle that allows shifting into 1st other than at very slow, unloaded speeds, and every vehicle I've owned, save a diesel truck, has been a manual (& nearly all have been Japanese or German performance cars). I've driven many others that are similar. Rode in a friend's S2000 last weekend, however, and was surprised that it allowed downshifting to 1st at higher speeds than I've ever experienced.

I put Redline 75w90NS in my transaxle and it's fantastic. Good cold, maybe one notchy shift, and silky. I had the kind that was not NS (double negative) initially, thinking that's what my LSD equipped transaxle wanted, but that was notchy, clunky, and coarse feeling (turns out it was too slippery for the synchro, I've been told). Proves that fluid choice in the transaxle can make a big difference.

Enjoy!

 

[FactoryDan]

First thing I would've done is contact Numeric. I don't recall anyone calling me about a problem. It's very important that the rod ends are adjusted properly to ensure proper shifting. It's relatively simple to do and I have a video up on facebook demonstrating how to do it. I've seen some of the best mechanics overlook this. It's an easy mistake to make and I made the very same mistake on first time installing them. We stand behind all our products. I am usually always available day and night. Even on weekends for anyone doing their own installation that needs my help. We Warranty all the products regardless of how old they are and issue a refund if necessary. Feel free to contact me anytime.

Dan
[email protected]
813-920-4415

 

[supertbone]

Thanks, srogers. I'm pretty darn happy right now. The experience hasn't really fazed me. I knew I was buying an 8-year old Porsche and I've owned a German car before (BMW 550i). I've got a Honda Accord as a 2nd daily driver and I maintain a reasonable stash of savings for car repairs. My intention is to keep the Cayman for a long while and give it the maintenance it deserves. It was fortunate that I took the car in to the shop since the owner noted I had a screw in one of my tires. That could have done some serious damage to people and cars if it had caused a blowout at highway speed. So I'm actually feeling pretty lucky.

I originally wanted an Acura NSX but I missed the window to buy those cheap (about 5 years ago). Started looking at 911's instead. Then I saw this Cayman S and realized it is perhaps the closest alternative to the old NSX (mid-engine 6 cylinder semi-exotic) and actually better in several ways. More power. Less weight - without resorting to exotic (expensive to repair) aluminum body. Shorter overhangs make it easier to drive over transitions without bottoming. And the Cayman was like half as expensive. I love the shape of the NSX and it will certainly garner more attention. But I'm having a blast with this baby Porsche.

I asked the shop owner if there was any preferred gear oil or additives and once again he recommended the OEM stuff. Says its synthetic and properly designed for the car.

 

[supertbone]

Hi FactoryDan,
You're correct that neither I nor the technician ever called you. As far as we could tell, the cables were installed properly according to the written instructions. Additionally I had done some adjustment at the shifter end to get the shifter position right. The instructions emphasize getting enough travel to hit all the gears, especially Reverse. That was true in my case so it appeared correct. I'm looking on your website now for a link to a video, but I seem to be missing it. I do sometimes have the ability to miss things that are right in front of my eyes.

I'm looking here on the product page:
Store - Numeric Racing

And here on the documentation page, plus in the 987 shifter cable document itself:
Documentation - Numeric Racing

My first reaction was not to call, but rather to refer to the Numeric Racing website (I'm naturally introverted). After having the cables removed, I did also look at the website again to see if there was a refund policy but did not find it. I found the Lifetime Warranty page which offers product replacement in the case of faulty workmanship. But since the cables appear to be manufactured as intended and I wasn't interested in replacement this really doesn't apply. So I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that you would offer some level of refund for the return of a non-defective product. Very cool! As these cables have been installed and used for about 6 weeks, I wouldn't expect a full price refund. You can see in the classifieds section that I'm asking only $300 plus shipping for them. If you would refund me at that level or greater then I would take you up on it. They've only be advertised for a day and I've gotten some interest but no firm offers yet.

I didn't realize you offered support on nights/weekends - the website lists normal weekday hours only. I'll contact you offline to conclude this. Perhaps tomorrow - it's 9:00pm in TX and I don't recall what time zone you're in.

Ryan

 

[Numeric Racing]

Hi FactoryDan,
You're correct that neither I nor the technician ever called you. As far as we could tell, the cables were installed properly according to the written instructions. Additionally I had done some adjustment at the shifter end to get the shifter position right. The instructions emphasize getting enough travel to hit all the gears, especially Reverse. That was true in my case so it appeared correct. I'm looking on your website now for a link to a video, but I seem to be missing it. I do sometimes have the ability to miss things that are right in front of my eyes.

I'm looking here on the product page:
Store - Numeric Racing

And here on the documentation page, plus in the 987 shifter cable document itself:
Documentation - Numeric Racing

My first reaction was not to call, but rather to refer to the Numeric Racing website (I'm naturally introverted). After having the cables removed, I did also look at the website again to see if there was a refund policy but did not find it. I found the Lifetime Warranty page which offers product replacement in the case of faulty workmanship. But since the cables appear to be manufactured as intended and I wasn't interested in replacement this really doesn't apply. So I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that you would offer some level of refund for the return of a non-defective product. Very cool! As these cables have been installed and used for about 6 weeks, I wouldn't expect a full price refund. You can see in the classifieds section that I'm asking only $300 plus shipping for them. If you would refund me at that level or greater then I would take you up on it. They've only be advertised for a day and I've gotten some interest but no firm offers yet.

I didn't realize you offered support on nights/weekends - the website lists normal weekday hours only. I'll contact you offline to conclude this. Perhaps tomorrow - it's 9:00pm in TX and I don't recall what time zone you're in.

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

The video is on facebook at www.facebook.com/numericracing and also on the home page at www.numericracing.com

We are located in Florida and we are also in the process of creating a new website and newer documentation.

You can call the number provided by Dan and you will be able to reach him over the weekend after 1 pm eastern time.

~Faith

 

[supertbone]

Thanks Faith,
Sure enough, I missed the two videos posted on the main page. I'll do as you suggest and call after 1pm EST.
Ryan

 

[supertbone]

Well, one of my interested shoppers firmed up his interest by sending me payment. Well played! So I've sold the cables and will not be contacting NR for a refund. Regardless, I would like to thank FactoryDan again for offering it. Thanks.

 

[Numeric Racing]

Well, one of my interested shoppers firmed up his interest by sending me payment. Well played! So I've sold the cables and will not be contacting NR for a refund. Regardless, I would like to thank FactoryDan again for offering it. Thanks.

Very glad to hear that everything has worked out for you!

 

[spmcpa]

Regardless, I would like to thank FactoryDan again for offering it.

Very upstanding and very commendable. Can I thank you on behalf of the entire Planet-9 community? If everyone acted with as much integrity, the world would be a better place (at least for auto-enthusiasts!)

 

[supertbone]

Thank you spmcpa, that's very kind.

 

[7West]

Very upstanding and very commendable. Can I thank you on behalf of the entire Planet-9 community?

I'm sorry, but you cannot thank /u/supertbone on behalf of the 'entire' Planet-9 community. Either his mechanic did not install the NR cables correctly or he did not know what he getting himself into. And furthermore, he did not know and, apparently, does not know what a superior set of cables are and should feel like.

7West

 

[Boulder_Geek]

After reading this thread, and considering that I drove a Numeric shifter and cable-equipped 2006 Cayman S (just like the one which I purchased last weekend,) the first modification that I ordered was still the Numeric cable and wrench. Even though my car only has 23,000 miles, it is still 10 years old and who knows what the OEM cables have been through.

For peace of mind, and because I think that the Numeric shifter and cable combination is a stellar product, I wanted to make the change ASAP. I can't wait to have that precision in my own Cayman.

They arrived last night. Man, I underestimated the stoutness! Feels like they are F-16 parts. I ordered the alignment tool from Suncoast. Hopefully I can not screw it up. I'm good with bicycles and motorcycles, and didn't screw up my 944. :-|

Thanks for the links on those docs and videos. Education time.

 

[Apex1]

So, my prospective of the Numeric short shifter and cables has been absolutely positive. After a month of use, I am thrilled at every shift I make. I do use 1st gear down shifting, so not sure why you really should not do it. I autocross and the big boys with their PDK/GT3's downshift into 1st in certain 180 degree corners. I have tried it a couple of times and find it slower for me, due to the mechanics of doing it changes the way I negotiate the corner vs staying in 2nd gear. With more practice, I will use the additional power of 1st gear and almost power shifting into 2nd.

Its exciting to corner work, with the cars trying to get the power down, Corvette's, Porsche's GT3RS's, and modified 911's all trying to get the fastest line putting the power down. So, yes 1st gear is useable. I double clutch in traffic into first gear a lot from 20 mph, to practice, not using my brakes at all down to 5 mph. Shifting into 1st at 25 in traffic is a bit much, but for me on a back country road, that's necessary to be able to use it effectively on the track.

Numeric shifter and cables help me do this well as I can feel the 1st gear engage much better now than with the old OEM equipment that was changed out along with new tranny fluid by Cantrell Motor Sports. This system works perfectly now in my 07 Cayman 987 S with 40k miles.

 

[Boulder_Geek]

It is somewhat fun to see this thread after two years. It took me quite a while to get my Numeric cables installed. The slippery slope had me acquire a new center console, build a paint booth, get new compressor and paint guns, breathing apparatus, etc to paint the center console. in Porsche Meteor Grey metallic. After the year it took me to get that ready, I disassembled the console and swapped out the shifter and cables.

The 12 year old OEM cables broke as soon as I removed the pressure from them. Happy to see them gone. I insulated the Numeric cables with a combination of the OEM foam wrap and new silicone tubing. I hit the firewall and engine cover with automotive acoustic insulation at the same time.

I get no extra noise or vibration after my Numeric cables. What I do get is a solid mechanical connection to my transmission. I came from a 944, and that had solid steel shift rods going back to the transaxle. I sort of wish the Cayman retained those. No concerns at all about weak links. With the Numerics, i have the closest analogue in flexible cables. I have zero concern about a broken shift cable for the lie of this Cayman.

Yes, it is notchier. I also adjusted them so that I can't accidentally grab reverse instead of first. I am fine with that. I want my sports car to be like an airplane, where every selection is deliberate and tactile. Each to their own. I drive the car that I like.