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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at getting a 2nd set of wheels for track days. I do about 5 or 6 a year and am getting tired of burning through my street tires (my Cayman is my daily driver). I'd say my level is newb intermediate. I have about 10 DE under my belt so I can get a basic feeling but know I have mounds to learn yet.

I'm thinking of going with Bridgestone RE-11 tires for the track wheels but heard that they're also good for daily driving so my question basically is:

Should I even bother with a second set of wheels if I don't do R-comps?
 

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Cayman The Destroyer!
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You can use them as daily driver and track tires. Not worth a second set of tires & wheels. Some additional - camber would help with wear.
 

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First question: have you done GT3 LCA's and an appropriate alignment to help with tire wear at the track? To me, that would be a first step.

R comps only allow you to go faster, push harder and then when the car does break traction, it will be at higher speeds and likely harder to control. Those things in the hands of a driver with not a lot of seat time could be a bad thing. For me, I switched after I had a fair amount of track days/instruction under my belt and when my laptimes were pretty close to as fast as I could go on street tires. Definitely a personal choice but I will guess based on prior posts here that the PCA/POC instructors will echo a similar sentiment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You're right I need to do an alignment first. The rear tires are wearing evenly however the fronts are getting the outside edges eaten up.

I'm thinking if I don't go R-comp immediately I may as well just stick to street tires and some neg camber up front. I won't bother with a 2nd set of wheels.
 

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Tennessee Vol
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I'm looking at getting a 2nd set of wheels for track days. I do about 5 or 6 a year and am getting tired of burning through my street tires (my Cayman is my daily driver). I'd say my level is newb intermediate. I have about 10 DE under my belt so I can get a basic feeling but know I have mounds to learn yet.

I'm thinking of going with Bridgestone RE-11 tires for the track wheels but heard that they're also good for daily driving so my question basically is:

Should I even bother with a second set of wheels if I don't do R-comps?
I transitioned from Mich PS2s to Mich Pilot Sport Cup Tires for the track. Good middle step on the way to slicks. If you are going to track the car I suggest a second set of wheels for the track tires. Also, using brake pads like Pagid Yellow will really help on the track.
 

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The RE-11s are great dual purpose tires. I put about 10,000 miles plus two three day DEs on mine. After that I added GT3 LCAs and rear toe links. The camber is now -2.3/-1.9.

Post mods I did one moe three day DE and the Spring group Dragon run. At present I have about 12,500 miles on the tires and they still have life left in them.

In twenty years of DE this is by far the best set of dual purpose tires I've owned.

When I wear this set out I'll install another set.



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>R comps only allow you to go faster, push harder and then when the car does break traction, it will be at higher speeds and likely harder to control

The big thing with R-compound tires IMO is that they are more CONSISTENT and more PREDICTABLE.

It's not "magic in a can", the grip level is not so different from a very good street tire like the PS2. It's better, sure, but not unmanageable either if you have a few DEs under your belt and some understanding of what's going on. To me, the most significant change from street to R was that the tire remained as good on lap 10 as it was on lap 2. Definitely NOT the case with a street tire which is essentially dead within 5 laps. Oh, also better under braking... most people think brakes are the key to braking hard, not so, it's the tires! (better brakes simply resist fade better)

I'm sure there is a lot more grip, but that's was not the biggest surprise for me, just saying... and yes, I know several folks running Re11s on their daily drivers, and getting 15K miles out of them (with a few track days sprinkled in)...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Based on what I'm reading the RE-11 tire seems like the best solution at the present. As I get better I will then move on to a dedicated set of wheels/tires for the track.

As for brakes I'm about to install the Pagid yellows on stock rotors and GT/ front brake ducts. Do any of you keep the yeoolows for daily driving? How loud are they?
 

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Definitely NOT the case with a street tire which is essentially dead within 5 laps.
I think the RE-11 will hold up for more than 5 laps. It does a fairly good job of communicating the limits provided the driver is paying attention. Won't touch the current crop of Hoosiers but it is probably better than the older Hoosiers.

I used to use a new set of Hoosiers every weekend in Club Racing. It was worth it then but not any more.
 

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Try the Proxes R888. It has a lot of grip and you can easily drop 5 seconds on your lapt time.
 

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Tennessee Vol
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+1 on pad comment. Pagid Yellows for the track. OE for street.
 

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I think the RE-11 will hold up for more than 5 laps. It does a fairly good job of communicating the limits provided the driver is paying attention.
I agreed with that, sorry if somehow I was unclear. The RE11 is a great track tire that will hold up better than a pure street tire, and also works on the street. I was lumping the Re11 with R compounds, even though I'm not sur eit is, technically rated R or not !

A friend showed up with a GT3RS last track day on those, and he was very happy with them. Said he had 4/5 DEs and 10K miles already, and they still looked fine !
 

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I'm running RE-11s and find them very forgiving and pretty grippy. I plan to mount them on a spare set of wheels and keep them for the track only. That will give me a chance to obtain cheaper and better (maybe ride quality?) street tires. As a bonus, I'll have spares, just in case (I'll bring both sets to the track - I'd hate to lose track sessions to a puncture.)

I found the RE-11s needed a couple miles to warm to maximum grip levels in 80-95 F heat, then started to go off slightly a few miles later in the high heat. Still messing with pressures - I think I was too high still, even after dropping a bunch over the day, so the behaviour may be different with correct pressures. (I'm running stock camber.)

Given the overall behaviour, I suspect that the RE-11s will get hard and go off fairly quickly (quicker than the three years or so of PS2s) when street driven, especially in high temps. So, I'll save them for track events, most likely.
 

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I'm in my first year of tracking my car and the same boat as you. Next year I will most likely get another set of wheels with R compound as I will be doing atleast 8 to 10 events. In the meantime I just put on a set of Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec and competed in two events recently. The tyres performed very well and have some great reviews. They have similar construction to an R compound, with very stiff side walls and they dont degrade as they increase in temperature. The only down side is the increased tyre noise during normal driving. Well priced too.

I guess it depends on how competitive you want to be. A set of these, or RE-11 will give you performance and safety to enjoy your car on the track, with out the added cost of another set of wheels. The other issue is R compounds will invalidate your warranty, if you still have one.
 

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Based on what I'm reading the RE-11 tire seems like the best solution at the present. As I get better I will then move on to a dedicated set of wheels/tires for the track.

As for brakes I'm about to install the Pagid yellows on stock rotors and GT/ front brake ducts. Do any of you keep the yeoolows for daily driving? How loud are they?
I have GY F1 Asymetrics on as street tires/track rain tires and Kumho XS for dry track days on separate rims.

What I like about the two tire/wheel setup is that it allows one set for what I look for in street driving--supple ride, low noise, great wet weather performance--while allowing for a tire combo that is strictly about dry weather performance. The track will eat up street tires if you're doing enough DE's a year,making them louder on the street and affect their wet weather performance by virtue of reduced tread depth.

Likewise, driving them everyday will add the typical heat cycles of normal driving, which will affect track performance. I noticed this on a set of PS2's a few years back--these were the OE that came with the car. When my second set of PS2's used at the track started to go away more quickly during a session, I switched over to the OE tires--that were only 2 years old and only used on the street; big mistake. I quickly found out they had less traction during a 20 minute session than the old track tires, presumably from all the heat cycles on the street.

Considering the expense of DE's and the frustration you can have from driving on tires that have "overstayed their leave", spending the extra $1500-$2k on the extra set of tires and wheels is well worth it. The notion of going with a less expensive street tire(less than PS2)--Sumo HTR ZIII or GY F1 makes a lot of sense.

On the other subject, I've been using Carbotech XP8's year round--April through October--and find they are not objectionable on the street and work well at the track.
 

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I'd say my level is newb intermediate. I have about 10 DE under my belt so I can get a basic feeling but know I have mounds to learn yet.
If you're a "newb intermediate" I strongly suggest you stay with regular street tires. I've spoken to several driving instructors about this subject and I'm firmly convinced there is no better way to learn how to handle a car than on street rubber. Street tires are far more predictable at the limit of adhesion than R-compounds, and they break free very gently, not abruptly like most race rubber.

Tires make the car go, tires make the car stop, tires make the car turn. Going fast is all about managing the tire contact patch so you can get the most out of your available grip. Part of the equation is suspension tuning, part of it is brakes and part of it is tire/wheel selection, but the most important part is driver skill.

I say, work on developing your skills more before throwing money at upgrades for your car. At "newb intermediate", I guarantee you haven't approached the limits of the car's ability even with street tires. As your skills improve, you will eventually get to a point where the car begins to hold you back. THEN is the time to go down the upgrade path to improve the car. Until that point, you will learn car control skills much better with street tires than with R-compounds. Concentrate on smoothness, in steering and braking. Your tires and brakes will both last longer, and you'll naturally get faster as your finesse improves.

I've been tracking my 25 year old 911 for 6 years, about 8 days/year. I started out with Kumho Victoracers (R compound) the first year. I thought I was pretty fast given my low experience level. Then I switched to street tires in the 2nd year, and it was an eye-opener. I suddenly realized how many mistakes I was making. I've been on street tires ever since, and I now drive in the 2nd-fastest group with a 25-year old, 200 hp 911 on Toyo T1-R street tires that is bone stock except for minor upgrades to the springs, shocks and bushings. I still have plenty to learn but I've come a LONG way on street tires and I do not believe my skills would be even close to the same if I had spent all that time on track tires. Street tires reveal the car's handling traits far better.

Ask the instructors in your region what they think about staying on streets vs. going to race rubber. I'll bet they recommend streets.

Always remember - just because you're driving faster doesn't mean you're driving better.
 

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The RE-11s are great dual purpose tires. I put about 10,000 miles plus two three day DEs on mine. After that I added GT3 LCAs and rear toe links. The camber is now -2.3/-1.9.

Post mods I did one moe three day DE and the Spring group Dragon run. At present I have about 12,500 miles on the tires and they still have life left in them.

In twenty years of DE this is by far the best set of dual purpose tires I've owned.

When I wear this set out I'll install another set.



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Alan:

While I agree that RE11 is a great street tire for track use...probably the best, in fact, I'm a little confused with your setup. I've been told that rear toe links don't help anything unless you also lower the car. Their purpose is to correct the geometry that gets messed up when the car is lowered.

I also have GT3 LCAs on my car. Mine are set just under two degrees negative and the rears are at about 1.8 negative and I'm getting nice wear on my 18" NT-01s running at 37psi hot. They are R compound tires, but they are not nearly as wicked as Hoosiers or BFGs. They actually ride pretty nice on the street and last very well on track. I drive home on them too with no issues. Corvette club guys use them as summer tires.

One thing I did to my car that has made a huge improvement for about the cost of a half decent set of wheels is to add a set of TPC bars front and rear. It's made an amazing difference to the handling and the back stays on the ground with PCM off and without adding a limited slip. My A Group student this Spring had a car identical to mine, same tires, same LCAs, same PASM and same tires. My car had more engine tweaks but his had these bars. OMG. I bought a set the week I got home. They are great and don't degrade the ride much at all.

I drive my car on the street quite a bit and have 19s, so I'm pretty sensitive to this issue. It's a very livable mod. I'd do it before R tires, before engine mods (except PS cooler, sump changes and VOS for reliability). I think a car with RE11s and these bars (get TPC's "quiet" end links in front and use stock ones in the rear. Don't change ride height) would be very satisfying to drive for a long time on the track.

Use Casey's recommended settings for your alignment and bar settings. Never set either front or rear bars full hard with the "quiet" front links or the stock rear links....These links aren't strong enough to handle that.

:cheers:
 

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I drive the 19" PS2's on the street and use Nitto R0-1's for the track I would really recommend getting a set of 18" dedicated track wheels. I got mine from CCW and they are some of the best wheels I've ever had. I'm running the Nitto's in 245/275 sizes and I can tell you the difference in grip level is tremendous. Using my traqmate data, I'm pulling 1.6g's in the turns after the tires are properly inflated/heated etc... That's easily 50% more than you'll get with the stock tires, so you need to be ready to handle that kind of g-force.

As already said, you shouldn't transition until you're at the limit of your street tires and feeling very comfortable driving with all traction/stability controls off. If you are very careful about keeping the proper pressures and alignment and don't push the tires before they have warmed up, they are very progressive and fairly easy to control at and over the limit. That limit is a lot higher though, so don't try it until you're definitely ready.
 
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